On being fully human

[Skip]

W: So you’re saying that adults should have no morals, be as clueless as an infant, and forget everything learned in life? Some interpretation of reality. Perhaps it’s just more sarcasm.

Of course it is. I said nothing about what humans should be : purity is your bugaboo.
You want them to jump through your imaginary deity's hoops to attain a state of grace that nobody ever really had.

I'm saying that all humans are fully human, at any age, and in any physical, emotional, intellectual or moral condition, even the damaged ones. even the nasty ones, even the ones who need to enhance their sensory receptors or physical capabilities with mechanical aids.

Only when part of them is removed and replaced by genes from other species or computer components do they become part human and part something non-human. Until then, they're all fully human.

[Walker]

W: So you’re saying that adults should have no morals, be as clueless as an infant, and forget everything learned in life? Some interpretation of reality. Perhaps it’s just more sarcasm.

Of course it is. I said nothing about what humans should be : purity is your bugaboo.

I never said that no morals, clueless as an infant, and without memory, is purification of corruption. This was your own sarcastic assertion. Man has always known of purification within various traditions. Even military boot camp is a purification, so you can’t hornswoggle folks with pretending to be so clueless about what happens on this planet.

You want them to jump through your imaginary deity's hoops to attain a state of grace that nobody ever really had.

Again, no mention of deities, jumping, imagination, hoops, or grace other than what you have just asserted, which given the history and experience of the dialogue, is just more mealy-mouthed sarcasm. Tedious. Good for you.

I'm saying that all humans are fully human, at any age, and in any physical, emotional, intellectual or moral condition, even the damaged ones. even the nasty ones, even the ones who need to enhance their sensory receptors or physical capabilities with mechanical aids.

Yeah, I know. And I’m saying there are plenty of folks not living up to their human potential. But enough explaining. You just use it as food for sarcasm.

Only when part of them is removed and replaced by genes from other species or computer components do they become part human and part something non-human. Until then, they're all fully human.

This has already been addressed. So we’ll dress it again. That statement applies to a view that believes a human being is the body, however this is disproved because less of the body does not make one less human, nor do your add-on's make one more human.

Ideas early spent go to an early circle game so please feel no inhibition to cease and desist with the continuing repetition, although I know from experience that any juicy scraps of insincere sarcasm that pop up will be tough to resist sharing.

[Nick_A]

The path leading to become fully human first requires the struggle to get ones inner house in order: the inner evolution from a chaotic plurality into the inner orderly hierarchy of mind, heart, and body. This enables the development of both human consciousness and conscience.

As We are we are limited to simple reactive consciousness. Our attention is captured by external events. Human consciousness is expanding consciousness in which a person is put into a higher conscious perspective

“A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” ~ Albert Einstein

Expanding consciousness which allows us to experience a higher conscious perspective requires conscious intent. Normally we are content to argue and consume our consciousness with small stuff and earthly events like politics and defending imagined self importance. Expanding consciousness requires surrendering preoccupation with small stuff to allow for the conscious experience of the big picture

Expanding conscience enables us to awaken to eternal values and how they can manifest in society as subjective values. Of course the human condition struggles against it which is why in reality only a relative few are capable of experiencing objective conscience.

But the bottom line is that the path to becoming fully human requires the willingness and the need to enable consciousness to expand and allow for the awakening experience of objective conscience. Only a rare few are capable of following the path leading to become fully human.

[Skip]

I never said that no morals, clueless as an infant, and without memory, is purification of corruption.

Then what was corrupted? When and how did the corruption take place? In what state was the ?human before corruption?

Man has always known of purification within various traditions.

From what do people in all these traditions need purification?

Again, no mention of deities, jumping, imagination, hoops, or grace other than what you have just asserted,

Yet gods are in all those purification-requiring traditions. Your failure to mention them doesn't cleanse the traditions of their deities.

And without the superstitions, there is no less-that-humanness, or corruption of humanity, or need for purification rituals.

[Greta]

Greta

This is ultimately about identity being defined by our relationships. Psychology 101 will tell you that we are parents, offspring, siblings, friends, bosses, subordinates, colleagues, neighbours, citizens and so forth. Outside of human society we are part of the local natural systems - the biology, geology, hydrology, atmosphere and so forth.

I think it better to be adaptable in these roles while remaining true to oneself rather than being relatively fixed in trying to assert I AM.

Yours is a normal secularist’s view. What we are is defined by cultural standards. We are a this or a that but without I Am. Rather than having a personality, our conditioned personality has us. A fully human being has become themselves and can consciously be all things to all people. As we are we are limited to conditioned roles. We are eagles conditioned to become chickens

Do you always only do what society tells you or do you have an inner life?

I personally have an inner life that is not dictated to by anyone. I am also well aware of the kind of quiet mind unity consciousness that Jill Bolte-Taylor spoke so eloquently about. Yes, acknowledge our exciting inner dynamics and enjoy them.

However, faffing about with one's inner self too much can be self-absorbed, even masturbatory and many find that their egos become tied up with their spiritual attainments, at which point personal growth slows or stops. They may consider themselves to be so superior that they stop seeing other people as full human beings!

[Walker]

I never said that no morals, clueless as an infant, and without memory, is purification of corruption.

Then what was corrupted?
Apprehension of reality uncorrupted by human ignorance, as already discussed. (repetition)

When and how did the corruption take place?
Every time the temporal is ignorantly mistaken for the permanent.

In what state was the ?human before corruption?
Uncorrupted.

Man has always known of purification within various traditions.

From what do people in all these traditions need purification?
Corrupted apprehension of reality.

Again, no mention of deities, jumping, imagination, hoops, or grace other than what you have just asserted,

Yet gods are in all those purification-requiring traditions. Your failure to mention them doesn't cleanse the traditions of their deities.

And without the superstitions, there is no less-that-humanness, or corruption of humanity, or need for purification rituals.

Question: How does the already used example of military boot camp purification fit into your formula that insists on gods that I didn't mention, and that you don't believe in?

Answer: it doesn’t fit.

If it doesn't fit, you gotta forgit?

[Skip]

Question: How does the already used example of military boot camp purification fit into your formula that insists on gods that I didn't mention, and that you don't believe in?

I have no "formula", and military bootcamp is such an idiotic example of a purification rite that it didn't seem worth repeating. Military training is not intended to cleanse the recruit of corruption. All it's intended for is to teach basic use of weapons, absolute conformity and unquestioning obedience. All it's meant to remove from the otherwise normal young person is his or inhibition against violating another human being. So they're taught that the designated enemy is not fully human.

[Walker]

Question: How does the already used example of military boot camp purification fit into your formula that insists on gods that I didn't mention, and that you don't believe in?

I have no "formula", and military bootcamp is such an idiotic example of a purification rite that it didn't seem worth repeating. Military training is not intended to cleanse the recruit of corruption. All it's intended for is to teach basic use of weapons, absolute conformity and unquestioning obedience. All it's meant to remove from the otherwise normal young person is his or inhibition against violating another human being. So they're taught that the designated enemy is not fully human.

Idiotic? That's because you can't move beyond your fixation with deities you don't believe in.

The corruption of too many pizzas, too much beer and weed, disorder in the living quarters, sloth with the duties, lazy focus, gets reconditioned in boot camp.

Boot camp is a purification to prepare for military life … purification within that tradition.

It’s like ngondro for the bhogis.

It's a preparation to be all you can be, according to the tradition.

[Skip]

On the contrary - military training, while it may enhance the physical condition of the recruit, is a means of stripping him or her of unique personal volition, personal judgment, unique response to the world, original attitudes and opinions. What it does is remove parts of the recruits' individual humanity, reducing them to identical units: warrior-ants.

[Walker]

Purification is reduction and removal of the clutter, as previously mentioned.

Break ‘em down and then build ‘em up according to the tradition, such as the military.

No, they're not ants.

They be human.