Presumed guilty until proven innocent

[wtf]

with the modern media what else can one do?

Ah, "the modern media" is the reason we must suppress free speech.

All clear now.

[Arising_uk]

Your derogatory MSM has to follow the law why should the social media warriors not? Especially when they claim they are journalists. Free speech is being delayed not stopped in the name of free and fair trials and to stop lawyers taking advantage to retrial and delay justice, you might like the lynch-mob, I personally don't.

[gaffo]

is this so? welcome understanding of this.

Why would you give the Police the chance to clear crimes from their books?

??

dont understand your point.

would welcome it so we can discuss however.

first off for my understanding - does you society not have plea bargainining?

[jayjacobus]

Having a trial implies guilt and the jury expects evidence during the trial that will prove guilt. "Presumed innocence" is a fiction.

[Troll]

People blame Trolls for their difficulties, but what does harm is the human. When Trolls stir the cauldron of human confusion, and gather all the apathetic materials of their blanched bloodless hearts into a conflagration which licks the inside of their foul beings with the dark malignity of Tartarus, it is really humans who have done it all! This whole thread is human, it is the expression of their patternless incoherent wretchedness. Of their dead hearts which can not find the way.

[Arising_uk]

first off for my understanding - does you society not have plea bargainining?

If you mean by 'plea bargaining' the ability to reduce one's sentence by admitting to other crimes then no we don't have this but I think I maybe misunderstand the US system as I thought this was allowed in the US? We do have a variation whereby if they admit to a charge other lesser charges may be dropped but there's always a trial.

[Arising_uk]

Having a trial implies guilt and the jury expects evidence during the trial that will prove guilt. …

But that's the point? The prosecutor tries to prove the guilt the defence tries to prove the innocence.

"Presumed innocence" is a fiction.

The trial is the assumption of innocence?

[gaffo]

first off for my understanding - does you society not have plea bargainining?

If you mean by 'plea bargaining' the ability to reduce one's sentence by admitting to other crimes then no we don't have this but I think I maybe misunderstand the US system as I thought this was allowed in the US?

you understanding of my legal system might be correct, but per my understanding my nation's legal constuct is not per your understanding.

We do have a variation whereby if they admit to a charge other lesser charges may be dropped but there's always a trial.

this is my understanding Sir.

I suspect "we" (you and i/ and our respective Nations - share the same (or near enough to not matter in the differences) "legal constuction"


and so - Thanks for Reply Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you made my head spin for a week or two in thinking English/Ausie/NZ (and Japan/Germany/ (and rest of "Western world" did not offer Plea Bargains.

thanks for comforting me in affirming that we share at least 10 times more per your/my culture/values/institutions.....................than we differ.


thanks for reply and of course.............

carry on.....

[gaffo]

Having a trial implies guilt

um, not so.

it just a charge from the State against the accused - and why we have a JURY - to be inpartial in temperment to judge upon the fact - AND UPON CONSCIENCE (why i'm a rabid FIJA.ORG supporter (as for near all of my Founding Father were)

including John Jay - first Supreme Court justice of the US.

and the jury expects evidence during the trial that will prove guilt.

for if your understanding of the Jury is as you state - i grieve for the accussed!!!!!!!!!!!

for said jury is BIASED and unworthy of the responsibility given them!!!!!!!!

and no, you understanding of the role of a jury is NOT its proper role.

"Presumed innocence" is a fiction.

bullshit.

[gaffo]

Having a trial implies guilt and the jury expects evidence during the trial that will prove guilt. …

But that's the point?

he does not understand the responsibility of the Jury (a nordic construct of the 10th century - and worthy idea/ideal than most "Civilized" nations have affirmed the role of 10- centuries post

i.e he does not understand the role of said jury - so ignore him.

The prosecutor tries to prove the guilt the defence tries to prove the innocence.

"Presumed innocence" is a fiction.

The trial is the assumption of innocence?

yep.

[jayjacobus]

Having a trial implies guilt and the jury expects evidence during the trial that will prove guilt. …

But that's the point? The prosecutor tries to prove the guilt the defence tries to prove the innocence.

"Presumed innocence" is a fiction.

The trial is the assumption of innocence?

Presume means to suppose something is the case based on probability. So does the reality of the trial increase or decrease the probability of innocence?

At the beginning of a trial, the prosecution doesn't assume innocence nor does he assume guilt, but he suggests that he can prove guilt. The trial will determine if he is right.

The defense tries to cast doubt on the prosecutor's proof. He does not have to proof innocence (although he may do that anyway).

[Walker]

We prefer to try and protect the innocent's rights rather than allow the lynch mob to rule here.

Ahhhh hahahahahaha LOLOLOLOL. Tommy Robinson. Case closed.

ps -- sorry I read back a couple of posts and I see you are already mentioning this case. So you think someone should be thrown in jail for simply reporting on a trial. And that if you report on his imprisonment, YOU'RE committing a crime. I think you've lost perspective here.

The decision to jail Tommy has been overturned after 2 months of rotting in a prison.

In England, can Tommy sue for damages caused by his wrongful imprisonment?
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/270920 ... thew-vadum

[Arising_uk]

The decision to jail Tommy has been overturned after 2 months of rotting in a prison. …

Not quite, he's been released on bail pending a re-trial where he may well get a longer sentence or be released.

In England, can Tommy sue for damages caused by his wrongful imprisonment?

He could if it is found that the trial was improper.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/270920 ... thew-vadum

lmfo! Worse than Guantanamo Bay he says of his time in jail, we should send him there to understand just how wrong he is.

The title of your fakenews site is incorrect as he was not a whistleblower in any sense in this case. The real whistle blower was Sara Rowbotham the sexual health-worker who raised the abuses going on to the Greater Manchester Police force and refused to let it go when they refused to believe her and pretty much displayed the same opinions of the abusers that these girls were basically just no-good and asking for it. Hence they didn't bother following-up the reports for a very long time and not as Yaxley-Lennon wishes to portray because of fear of being accused of racism against the Pakistani community. Yaxley-Lennon is just using this case as a cause célèbre to promote his right-wing agenda and he is probably in contempt of court and could very well cause the case he is 'reporting' to collapse or be retried due to the defence claiming jury prejudice and costing the taxpayer a shitload more money to prosecute the alleged abusers.