Either

For all things philosophical.

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jayjacobus
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Re: Either

Post by jayjacobus » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:50 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:49 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:33 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Experience is related to matter activity. Matter either creates experience or it creates qualia which this can be experienced by an experiencer. Which one do you think is the correct one? And why?
Qualia is the consciousness' reaction to a sense but a sense is a frame of reference for reality. This is why we have senses. We need references to understand reality. Neither does matter create experience. But it is the referrent(s) for the senses.
I didn't say that quite right. Let me restate the last two sentences. Events through the senses create experiences. Without events there won't be anything to experience and without senses there won't be any represetations to experience.

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:42 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:59 am
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:43 am


all you have is the impression, that does not prove externality...

-Imp
Do you believe that nothing can affect you?
"something" could be a hallucination...

-Imp
Aha hallucination. Hallucination is the result of your brain activity. You can distinguish between hallucination and something real. Could the chair you are sitting on it right now be a hallucination?

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:07 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:33 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Experience is related to matter activity. Matter either creates experience or it creates qualia which this can be experienced by an experiencer. Which one do you think is the correct one? And why?
Qualia is the consciousness' reaction to a sense but a sense is a frame of reference for reality. This is why we have senses. We need references to understand reality. Neither does matter create experience. But it is the referrent(s) for the senses.
Senses are apparatus which connect us to reality. That is brain which either creates experience or qualia.

jayjacobus
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Either

Post by jayjacobus » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:33 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:07 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:33 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Experience is related to matter activity. Matter either creates experience or it creates qualia which this can be experienced by an experiencer. Which one do you think is the correct one? And why?
Qualia is the consciousness' reaction to a sense but a sense is a frame of reference for reality. This is why we have senses. We need references to understand reality. Neither does matter create experience. But it is the referrent(s) for the senses.
Senses are apparatus which connect us to reality. That is brain which either creates experience or qualia.
The brain creates senses which are neither experience nor qualia and that can be determined in any dictionary.

Impenitent
Posts: 1898
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Re: Either

Post by Impenitent » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:23 am

bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:42 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:59 am


Do you believe that nothing can affect you?
"something" could be a hallucination...

-Imp
Aha hallucination. Hallucination is the result of your brain activity. You can distinguish between hallucination and something real. Could the chair you are sitting on it right now be a hallucination?
it could be a dream

one only has access to the impression, not the thing in itself

-Imp

jayjacobus
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Re: Either

Post by jayjacobus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:47 am

The impression is a representation of SOMEthing.

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:53 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:33 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:07 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:33 pm


Qualia is the consciousness' reaction to a sense but a sense is a frame of reference for reality. This is why we have senses. We need references to understand reality. Neither does matter create experience. But it is the referrent(s) for the senses.
Senses are apparatus which connect us to reality. That is brain which either creates experience or qualia.
The brain creates senses which are neither experience nor qualia and that can be determined in any dictionary.
Brain create sense of something. There is however an apparatus which connect brain to the environment. So you believe that brain directly creates experience. Why?
Last edited by bahman on Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:55 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:23 am
bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:42 pm


"something" could be a hallucination...

-Imp
Aha hallucination. Hallucination is the result of your brain activity. You can distinguish between hallucination and something real. Could the chair you are sitting on it right now be a hallucination?
it could be a dream

one only has access to the impression, not the thing in itself

-Imp
Could you please answer to the following question instead of repeating your position? Can you get affected by nothing?

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:56 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:47 am
The impression is a representation of SOMEthing.
Yes.

Impenitent
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Either

Post by Impenitent » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:20 pm

bahman wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:55 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:23 am
bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm


Aha hallucination. Hallucination is the result of your brain activity. You can distinguish between hallucination and something real. Could the chair you are sitting on it right now be a hallucination?
it could be a dream

one only has access to the impression, not the thing in itself

-Imp
Could you please answer to the following question instead of repeating your position? Can you get affected by nothing?
impressions of space and time can affect those on which they impress

the only access is to the impression

finis

-Imp

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bahman
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Re: Either

Post by bahman » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:26 am

Impenitent wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:20 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:55 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:23 am


it could be a dream

one only has access to the impression, not the thing in itself

-Imp
Could you please answer to the following question instead of repeating your position? Can you get affected by nothing?
impressions of space and time can affect those on which they impress

the only access is to the impression

finis

-Imp
We are reasoning here. I agree that we don't have direct access to reality. But reality should be something and not nothing. Therefore reality exists.

gaffo
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Re: Either

Post by gaffo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:24 am

Impenitent wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:21 pm
bahman wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:55 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:37 pm


perhaps one day Kant would suggest it

-Imp
"the thing in itself is unknowable" refutes itself.
actually, it doesn't

you have perceptions, nothing besides

are your perceptions of an external thing? prove it

-Imp
solipsism - yes. nothing more can be known in this life.

gaffo
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Re: Either

Post by gaffo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:30 am

bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:42 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:59 am


Do you believe that nothing can affect you?
"something" could be a hallucination...

-Imp
Aha hallucination. Hallucination is the result of your brain activity.
so "they" say.
bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm
You can distinguish between hallucination and something real.
no you can't.

to think you can only shows you've never been under the influence of an halucingen.

"reality" changes for a few hours.

bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:01 pm
Could the chair you are sitting on it right now be a hallucination?
sure can.

you are me just talking to me - all i see/hear/smell/feel/etc is a product of my "mind" (being - right here right now), including that chair you claim as "real".

gaffo
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Either

Post by gaffo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:31 am

bahman wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:07 pm

Senses are apparatus which connect us to reality. That is brain which either creates experience or qualia.
you make assumptions upon the nature of "senses" and "reality" that empirically cannot be backed up.

gaffo
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Either

Post by gaffo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:38 am

bahman wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:53 pm

Brain create sense of something.
that is Faith talking.
bahman wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:53 pm
There is however an apparatus which connect brain to the environment.

note another faith in a distiction of the two above and that the latter actually "Exists" (per your faith) outside yourself (myself of course)

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