Can you lie to yourself?

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gaffo
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by gaffo » Sun May 06, 2018 12:13 am

Beauty wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:10 am
Let's say there is something like a split personality, so then the person knows about his other personality so then there could be no lying to self even there.
you do not know yourself and disscount the power of the subconscience.

Beauty
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by Beauty » Sun May 06, 2018 10:06 am

Beauty wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:10 am
But I don't think anyone could have a split personality because like what would it mean? If you take psychopaths for example, they know that they are evil relishing another's pain and giving people pain 'cause they find it enjoyable, and if you consider the case of Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and it's one person but depicting two personalities two characters, then it's not like something split, it's like liking mangoes but liking oranges too. Let's say there is something like a split personality, so then the person knows about his other personality so then there could be no lying to self even there. PhilX, I think what you really really want to find out is - can you make yourself believe that - you like that and not that, you are that and not that etc. I mean to say that we would all like to think good and high of ourselves, problem arises when we are not, and I think that what you want to know is if a person is not so high, good, nice, pretty and so on but would like to believe so, then do many or most people do that or not? It's not anything about split personalities. I don't think any such thing exists. Also, yes most people would like to think better of themselves than they are and they do, and that is not being split personality.
Above is what I actually wrote mind you but I don't think you noticed. Next time keep your eyes open.

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QuantumT
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by QuantumT » Tue May 08, 2018 9:59 pm

I do it constantly. Lie to myself.
The lies are not meant to be new eternal false truths, but temporary illusions for my emmediate benefit.
Like when I have a hangover, I promise myself never to drink again! Next time I drink, I convince myself I'm like Keith Richards.

So you see, drinking does not effect me. Me and Keith just keep on rollin'. Smoking does niether. Hell I can stop any day! But why? I'm almost invincible!
And I have no girlfriend. But what do I need that for? Such a nag on my back! I'm better off without! In fact I enjoy life! And lying to myself makes it all even better!

Cheers! :mrgreen:

Skip
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by Skip » Sat May 19, 2018 11:08 pm

duszek wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:22 pm

But why is this person trying to convince himself of something at all ?
Why this effort of self-conviction ?
I don't know about this particular person.
One of the most common reasons for self-deception is the need to belong. People want to believe their that their ideology is sound, that their country fights just wars, that their church worships a benevolent god, that their fraternity is honourable, that their work accomplishes a worthwhile goal, that the leaders they follow make fair and necessary decisions.
Other common reasons are to maintain a position in society (I am a good chief of police) or relationship (My husband wouldn't cheat) or excuse an act that can't be undone (I had no choice) or simply to save face (It wasn't my fault).
Sometimes it's to work up the courage to do something one has to, ought to, do (That water isn't that deep. Hardly anyone falls off ladders.) or to feel more positive about something that one can't stop from is happening (After all, lots of people recover from bankruptcy.)

bergie15
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by bergie15 » Sun May 20, 2018 12:29 am

I think that this is very true. People do tend to try and belong with others, so they try and justify their actions.

duszek
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by duszek » Sun May 20, 2018 7:25 am

What lying to oneself implies, I think, is that one draws the right conclusions from premises that lead to these conclusions, AND at the same time trying hard to suppress or to forget or to ignore some premises that would contradict these conclusions.

You cannot take absolutely everything into account. Only God can do it, not a human mind.

The element of dishonesty is when your heart or your intuition is telling you that you try to ignore something important and you don´t listen to your heart of intuition.

We often try to ignore annoying things because it would be bad for us to dwell on them, so it is a coping mechanism.

Walker
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by Walker » Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 am

duszek wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 7:25 am
What lying to oneself implies, I think, is that one draws the right conclusions from premises that lead to these conclusions, AND at the same time trying hard to suppress or to forget or to ignore some premises that would contradict these conclusions.

You cannot take absolutely everything into account. Only God can do it, not a human mind.

The element of dishonesty is when your heart or your intuition is telling you that you try to ignore something important and you don´t listen to your heart of intuition.

We often try to ignore annoying things because it would be bad for us to dwell on them, so it is a coping mechanism.
When you think the best of a person (premise) then only the person can make your thought a lie.

gaffo
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Re: Can you lie to yourself?

Post by gaffo » Sun May 20, 2018 11:58 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:09 am
If you attempt to lie to yourself, you shouldn't succeed because you would know it's a lie.

However, if you have a split personality, then I can see where you can lie to yourself, where one of the personalities tells the other personalities a lie.

Do you agree?

PhilX 🇺🇸
everyone lies to themselves. even you and me!

the "great battle" of a life - until the grave - is to be true to oneself.

each and every day it takes full strength of will to be honest with oneself - the easy way is of denial, which most folks fall under.

wisdom denies denial BTW - but few have the strength of character to look at oneself - esp their own shortcommings - and thus know oneself and forgive their failings.

most play the "rationalism/denial" cowards game unto the grave.

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