Rights

For all things philosophical.

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jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Rights

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:48 am

Of course there is an easy solution to all problems:

A Citizen’s counsel should be formed on the local or state level that has the power to correct an obvious judicial error or even a legal quandary that has caused nefarious harm if allowed to exist unresolved. The citizen’s counsel will be made up of recognized experts in fairness and can override or extend the law. The counsel will serve ordinary people but can be sued by corporations, governments and wealthy people. (Good luck to them.)

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Rights

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:08 pm

If the readers of my posts, think I am obsessed about the law, they would be right.

How can a corporation black ball me, for some petty reason,that prevents me from working in my profession for 15 years and the law won't help me?

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bahman
Posts: 2452
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Rights

Post by bahman » Sat May 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:57 am
Is the only way for one group to gain rights is for other groups to give up on theirs?

PhilX 🇺🇸
Yes, when there is a conflict in interests.

gaffo
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Rights

Post by gaffo » Sun May 06, 2018 12:42 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:57 am
Is the only way for one group to gain rights is for other groups to give up on theirs?

PhilX 🇺🇸
no, of course not.

..............per example ISRAEL 40 yrs past due to give RIGHTS to Palistinians ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP (FULL RIGHTS INCLUDING VOTING AS ISRAELIS).

"2-state" has been/is dead since 2000, reality.

Time for SciGuy to chime in and defend Apartied Israel and defame me as an Anti-semite.

outside of his Isreali blinders (is the guy an Israeli? - just wondering), he is reasonable in all other matters and offers good thoughtful posts.

in a way this only make me feel sadder ;-(.

Troll
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Rights

Post by Troll » Wed May 09, 2018 4:12 am

"RIGHTS HAVE NOT BEEN LOST BY GIVING THE SAME RIGHT TO SOME OTHERS."

You are being unfair. The argument he made applies to all votes taken since the change. It's true logically, i.e., without empirical examples. In classical form can one deny a premise such as:"An individual's vote becomes less effective whenever more voters are added"? More were added, ergo = less effective. The logical proof, in this case has greater cognitive dignity, since it is true in principle. You are right in the sense that the right was not anulled, but it was debased. In effect the vote also suffers inflation from increase in population does it not? Universal, global suffrage, would make the American vote nearly nugatory, think of the power of the larger countries to determine the outcome of a U.S. Presidential race, for example...

I think the issue gains some clarity through the reflection that the practical distribution of power between the citizens, in the regime, is chiefly a modern difficulty, the older problem was usually the negotiation between subjects and ruler (e.g., Magna Carta and Common Law system rather than Civil law). Equal formal rights, that the law applies to all, casts out the uncabined will of the king but replaces him with vigorous contestation between factions, themselves without a perfect model of a common good.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Rights

Post by jayjacobus » Wed May 09, 2018 11:28 pm

Troll wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 4:12 am
"RIGHTS HAVE NOT BEEN LOST BY GIVING THE SAME RIGHT TO SOME OTHERS."

You are being unfair. The argument he made applies to all votes taken since the change. It's true logically, i.e., without empirical examples. In classical form can one deny a premise such as:"An individual's vote becomes less effective whenever more voters are added"? More were added, ergo = less effective. The logical proof, in this case has greater cognitive dignity, since it is true in principle. You are right in the sense that the right was not anulled, but it was debased. In effect the vote also suffers inflation from increase in population does it not? Universal, global suffrage, would make the American vote nearly nugatory, think of the power of the larger countries to determine the outcome of a U.S. Presidential race, for example...

I think the issue gains some clarity through the reflection that the practical distribution of power between the citizens, in the regime, is chiefly a modern difficulty, the older problem was usually the negotiation between subjects and ruler (e.g., Magna Carta and Common Law system rather than Civil law). Equal formal rights, that the law applies to all, casts out the uncabined will of the king but replaces him with vigorous contestation between factions, themselves without a perfect model of a common good.
You are correct. The right to vote and the power to vote are different. The same is true of smart people vs. not so smart people. They both have the same rights but unequal assets. And this is true of wealth, strength, beauty, power. Rights don't guarantee equal success but they should guarantee the same rules. At least that's the principal although some people get privileges from the law.

Troll
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Rights

Post by Troll » Thu May 10, 2018 3:27 am

This is the current difficulty. Rights (liberties) or "fraternity"? The middle term, namely equality, when one is less smart, less assertive or less strong, is lost. Ergo, the notable rouge Soros speaks of "fragilité" rather than the more nationalist flavored colors of fraternity. However, one risks conflating two issues with your "power to vote", it is the power of the vote that is vitiated, not the power to go and vote. Equality, for whoever loves individual rights, lets man have freedom to seize upon the fruit of his life's fate. Ergo, a furious combat rages, quite sincerely felt to be just by both sides, amidst the abandonment of the human being to the monstrous, to technology.

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