If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

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FlashDangerpants
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If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

I saw an interesting review on Amazon for a book that some guy (Marvin C. Katz) on this very forum is plugging...
Wade Harvey - Web Designer wrote: 5 stars
I greatly enjoyed it. Some of the ideas that I liked ...
December 18, 2016
Format: Kindle Edition
Just finished reading Living Successfully. I greatly enjoyed it. Some of the ideas that I liked were:
1. The incisive analogy it offered to show how our welfare is tied to the welfare of others.
2. Ethical Fallacies that follow logically from the perspective of the new paradigm.
3. The chapter on Schools of Thought in Ethics.
4. Many other ideas and concepts which were expressed in various ways. I appreciate how they were rephrased in a manner so that they will sink in better in the long run; this writing technique will aid my recall of them. --Wade Harvey - Web Designer
I think you know where this is going. It's an Amazon review for a book with no likely audience. Of course it is written by a friend or family member, they all do it. In this instance, the guilty party is prof's own web designer.

Obviously, the fact that Prof boasts about his glowing reviews in the thread where he is pushing this book is something I will be punishing him for at length. I am a total bastard*, and he is easy meat. But this shabby action does give us a vaguely interesting question.

Everybody knows that Amazon is stuffed with fake reviews, we expect it. If I wanted to do a fraudulent one, I'd give it 4 stars and complain about something small to make the review less obviously bought and paid for. But just because it is normal, doesn't stop it being blatant misrepresentation. If everyone does it though, and it isn't really all that bad, shouldn't we all feel ok about doing it too? Should Marvin C. Katz just proudly say he got his friend to write the fake review and let that be the end of it?

And I sort of think it's weird to do this on behalf of a book (by Dr. Marvin C. Katz) that is supposed to teach ethics. Do others agree this makes what is really a very mundane act of naughty into a bit of a farce?

So, I hand over to you guys.... in the words of the great Prof himself....
prof wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:24 pm Questions? Evaluations? Comments?
PS. The other (anon) glowing reviewer there didn't identify themselves, but did stop to type out "Marvin C. Katz", almost as if they were trying to ensure a high pagerank score in case of googling... Don't worry Marvin C. Katz, I'm sure Amazon outweighs philosophynow on that algorithm by a hefty margin and my overuse of the term Dr. Marvin C. Katz won't have any effect.


*Total bastard. It's quite transparent that I only made this thread in Gen because nobody reads prof's threads where he puts them... and he abandons them when they get tricky just to make a new one with the same content. So I wanted to have nice easy place to find the details for re-use.
uwot
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by uwot »

Fundamentally, that was the defence of someone I shouldn't be too specific about. He got a couple of weeks inside, and 3 months with a tag, if I remember rightly.
Anyway. This was the first review my book received:

Physics Made Simple and Really Rather Nice to Look At!
5 October 2017
If, when you were younger, you had a mate at school who could make physics seem interesting at the same time as present it in a novel form... a graphic novel form... then Will Bouwman would be that mate. This book is a must read for anyone who never quite got to grips with physics at school, preferring to nod off to what seemed inordinately boring and incomprehensible. It's beautifully laid out in this book, with hand drawn images, laid out like a graphic novel, and all the more wonderful because it explains a complex subject so simply that you'll wonder why you never got it in the first place. I enjoyed it. It's delivered with wit and humour and the bonus for me is that now I feel able to join in on conversations where Einstein's name or Theories of Special or General Relativity are being bandied about. Every secondary school should have copies of this book.

As it happens it was unsolicited, but it only took about four seconds to realise it was written by a very good friend of mine. I'm sure some people reading this will have realised even sooner. Of the other reviews, one cost me an equally flattering review of an estate agents I had some business with, but the others are all "Verified purchase".
In answer to your question:
FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:15 pmBut just because it is normal, doesn't stop it being blatant misrepresentation. If everyone does it though, and it isn't really all that bad, shouldn't we all feel ok about doing it too?
You're quite right, it is a bit shabby, but writing a book is a piece of cake compared to marketing one, so regardless of how it makes you feel, you have to get your hands dirty.
At the moment I'm waiting to hear from a couple of agents whether they are prepared to shoulder the burden, but in the meantime, thank you for this opportunity to shamelessly hijack your thread and peddle my wares: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1521884722 Or a slightly different version can be read here: https://willijbouwman.blogspot.co.uk
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Good plug! It's also nice to see my thread being used for purposes other than just a space for me to be a sanctimonious dick just to annoy a pompous one.
uwot
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by uwot »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:57 amGood plug!
Thank you.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:57 amIt's also nice to see my thread being used for purposes other than just a space for me to be a sanctimonious dick just to annoy a pompous one.
Good of you to say so, but it's a sure way to kill a worthy thread.
Impenitent
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by Impenitent »

this is pure frupulence.

-Imp
uwot
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by uwot »

Ah well, bang goes that theory.
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-1-
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by -1- »

I had two of my books run on Amazon for a period of time. Two copies sold of one, and no copies of the other.

The two copies sold grossed $6.98, and netted me nothing. That's Canadian dollars, not Jamaican.

I kept checking once a month, and for a year nobody bought a single copy after the first two sales.

Then Amazon took them off the shelf.

One book got a review, from an independent poet, she rated my poetry 3 out of 5. She was kind. She did not review it on Amazon, that review never got there.

The other book got 5 glowing reviews, also not on Amazon.

One review, by a woman I had wanted to date 30 years prior to her reading the book, and continually ever since, exalted the book. We had one heavy date.

One review came from my uncle's friend (not girlfriend), she actually offered money for the book and the second volume as well. She never talked to me after she read the second volume, for it contained some acerbic and vitriolic blasphemy, and she was a devout Christian.

One review came from an ex-girlfriend's husband.

One review came from my psychiatrist.

One review came from a girlfriend whom I dated platoncially for several years.

In summary, three of the reviewers said to me they could not put down the book, they read it cover-to-cover. In my estimate two of them were lying.

My psychiatrist was scared shitless of me. In retrospect (I quit seeing him over ten years ago) he was constantly fearing for his physical safety when I was in his office.

The woman I dated for a one-night stand and had wanted for thirty years, she never said anything specific re: the contents.

The woman I dated for three years Platonically, liked the stories, as I wrote most of the book when I was dating her, and I let her read all my stuff. She liked them individually, on the go, but the entire book together was flat for her.

The woman who gave me money for the book was completely thrilled and very impressed. (Until she read the second one.)

There was one more reviewer over and above the five, it was my girlfriend whom I had dated for thirty years, (and wanted to date her); she told me some stories are better than what the average book has, but she did not say anything more.

What people don't say is what you have to listen to, when you read reviews.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

-1- wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:43 pm My psychiatrist was scared shitless of me. In retrospect (I quit seeing him over ten years ago) he was constantly fearing for his physical safety when I was in his office.
That sounds like a an interesting story all of it's own.

Just out of interest, the overcooked reviews that you got for your book... was it a book proclaiming a magnificent new science of ethics that will make everybody into better and more honest people? Did you boast about those reviews when plugging that book elsewhere?
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Greta
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by Greta »

This calls to mind Dawkins writing about the Prisoners' Dilemma game in The Selfish Gene.

In this context, in any given population, if most members are honest then it is easy for a the dishonest to gain an advantage, eg. more "glowing reviews" for a book. If most are dishonest then it's almost a level playing field again, except that the honest are disadvantaged. One can see this dynamic clearly in politics - "the mud sticks", even when smears are pure fabrication.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

There is such a thing as too much information.....
Dubious
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by Dubious »

Do we really need more books since anyone can publish on the cheap their opinions, philosophy or poetry? The latter especially being completely ignored as useless...which it mostly is.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

I don't care too much about Katz's take on ethics, but the question...

If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

...is a good one.

Anecdote: one of my (Louisiana) congressmen, on the radio, a few months back, made it clear he was 'philosophically' opposed to congressional subsides for health care, BUT, since every other congressperson was takin' 'em, he'd be a fool not to as well.

Seems to me: if you think it's wrong, then it shouldn't matter what others do or don't do. If you think it's wrong, don't do it.

I won't vote for that guy again.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re:

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:07 am one of my (Louisiana) congressmen,
That explains a lot.


''In 2011, Louisiana ranked among the five deadliest states for debris/litter-caused vehicle accidents per total number of registered vehicles and population size. Figures derived from the NTSHA show at least 25 persons in Louisiana were killed per year in motor vehicle collisions with non-fixed objects, including debris, dumped litter, animals and their carcasses.''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzysRahEXs
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henry quirk
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"That explains a lot."

Post by henry quirk »

What does what explain, Veg?
Science Fan
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Re: If everyone does it, it's ok for us to do it too?

Post by Science Fan »

Henry: This is why you don't get it when it comes to needing a government. A company that pollutes a lot, and does not have to pay for that pollution, may know it's wrong to pollute, but it will not stop polluting, as long as its competitors are free to pollute. When government passes a law banning a certain form of production that causes a lot of pollution, then all companies can curb pollution without having to worry about a competitor gaining an unfair advantage. That's just one example, but, we definitely know that even when a person, or company, or country, considers an action wrong, it may engage in that wrongful conduct as long as others are free to do so as well. By outlawing such conduct across the board, we actually end up with better overall outcomes.
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