All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

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Dontaskme
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All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

The bizarre weirdness of the temporal within in the eternal.

All we can know as conscious beings aware of ourselves is that we know absolutely nothing of any beginning or ending to life as a whole, and that our reality aka capacity to be conscious/alive is shared by every living creature on the planet. We're all in this together as one life living itself.

There is no separation possible in that we are literally made-up of everything that came before us. It's said that if anything such as a blade of grass was missing then the whole structure of the universe would collapse in on itself. That implies dinosaur's and the dodo, platypus and any other extinct creature must still exist in a state of pure potential somewhere.

We do know that we are temporal organisms, we know that there must exist an eternal now in which time appears to come and go. There must exist a seamless undivided space in which the temporal comes and goes, and we know that everything must be made of the same stuff it's appearing in, namely, space that is without beginning or end. The weird thing about matter is that it is made up of empty space, there is nothing else to make anything with.

We know that temporal life forms have beginnings and endings, but for that to be possible, there must also exit a state that is without beginning or end THAT we cannot know...simply because WE ARE IT....this one without a second ground that has to be to allow the temporal coming and going to appear. This is simple logic. If life is here now, it must have always been here now and that now is all there ever is and can be..where else could now happen but now here...and so life is either materially manifest or in a state of pure potential, this is obvious, we all know this instinctively.


And that's basically all the human being can know...when you really think about it logically.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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.......................................................................Excellent post. Well thought-out and well written.




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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:12 pm .




.......................................................................Excellent post. Well thought-out and well written.




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Thanks Bill...the sages and science have been saying this for eons.

It's takes one to know one Bill...She's a smart arse...or is that ass in America :wink:
alan1000
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by alan1000 »

What makes us "special" is our intense narcissism. We love thinking about ourselves; we are our favourite subject. Objectively, it is difficult to understand what makes human life more valuable than the life of a cockroach, without invoking Nazist philosophy. Funny old world, eh?
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by wisdomlover »

I like this post because it gets me thinking in a bunch of directions.

I especially like the discussion of time. Have you ever read the "Time Being", a lecture by Zen Master Dogen, founder of the Soto school of zen, back in what we would call the middle ages?

I have it in a book called Moon in a Dewdrop, but it is in lots of collections of Dogen's works.

It says, just to give you a taste, that "being is time, and time is being", and "the time being is the only time there is."

And it contains the most amazing sentence I have ever come across in the whole history of philosophy:

"Consider, now, whether any being, or any world, is left out of the present moment."
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Science Fan »

"It's said that if anything such as a blade of grass was missing then the whole structure of the universe would collapse in on itself."

Who said that? How could they possibly know any such thing? And were they joking or stoned at the time they said it?
Nick_A
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Nick_A »

Modern technology has affirmed that our face is the most important thing in the universe. That is all we can know. It has been affirmed by the selfie. A person can be in the presence of the most beautiful or the most sacred but it is really unimportant unless a person takes a picture of it with their smiling face in it. The selfie has affirmed that without our face, the picture is unimportant, it is all meaningless. This is all we can know.
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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

alan1000 wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:34 pm What makes us "special" is our intense narcissism. We love thinking about ourselves; we are our favourite subject. Objectively, it is difficult to understand what makes human life more valuable than the life of a cockroach, without invoking Nazist philosophy. Funny old world, eh?
When a child wants to learn something it goes to a teacher...when the pupil is ready the teacher appears.

Although there is no teacher but your own direct experience, life is your only teacher.

Any airline pilot ultimately has to apply his/her own magic ..their teacher does not fly the plane.

This is basic common sense.

___________


**I’m not special**

What I’ve attained is not special; it’s just rare. Just like an experienced airliner pilot is not special, they’re just rare.

People put spiritual teachers on a pedestal when in any other field of education they understand and accept that difference or rarity does not imply a hierarchy of worthiness.

If you want to learn how to fly a plane, you would be better off learning from an experienced pilot than you would be coming to me. Similarly, if you want to understand the ins and outs of your own psychology, discover how to access higher states of consciousness and learn what about your current understanding may not be helpful on your way to attaining a more effective understanding about how Creation works, you would be better off coming to me than going to the pilot.

When faced with the experienced pilot, would you feel less worthy in your own existence just because she knows better how to fly an airplane? Would you get insecure about your own worthiness or angry at the pilot when she is showing you that how you thought operating an airplane works is not how it actually works? It would not make sense if you did.

Would you think the army’s drill instructor is out to hurt you when he tells you to give him 10 more push ups, or if he told you that that is not how you throw a grenade?

Why then do you expect your spiritual teacher to always play even with you or be soft spoken when sometimes being soft is the most cruel and abusive approach a teacher in any field—including spiritual growth—can adopt?

If you want to learn something new you have to listen with your entire being.

It is not that I am better than you as a being, it is simply that I’ve gone through all the motions with an intensity and perseverance that is still rare in our western spiritual communities. And I’m happy to share everything I’ve learned along the way. That’s all.

I don’t point out your nonsense to hurt you; I point it out so you can regain your ability to choose consciously; I tell you where you’re lying to yourself so you can recover your free will—your right to be and choose freely, not as your delusions and conditioning demands.

If you don’t like the truth about yourself, being around me will be a challenge.

Quote from the one who knows. Bentinho Massaro.


___________
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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

Science Fan wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 pm "It's said that if anything such as a blade of grass was missing then the whole structure of the universe would collapse in on itself."

Who said that? How could they possibly know any such thing? And were they joking or stoned at the time they said it?

Common sense, common knowledge, intuition says it.

Only drunk people speak jibberish, the ones who know intuitively are the stone cold soberists. Those ones never look back at what is dead, those ones look in the same one direction.

A clear head calls for a clear head...not a head that's wearing a veil. Or a mind too drunk to not know it's arse from it's elbow.

''Sometimes we can't see what's right in front of us, because it's behind us and we're looking in a mirror''

Drunk on life...the soberist way. It's child's play.

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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

Science Fan wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 pm "It's said that if anything such as a blade of grass was missing then the whole structure of the universe would collapse in on itself."

Who said that? How could they possibly know any such thing? And were they joking or stoned at the time they said it?
It's a figure of speech.

Break a mirror and you get many mirrors, all mirrors...there is only the mirror and what it reflects...same one.

Can anything ever be missing? ....where would a missing piece go?



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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

wisdomlover wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:34 pm I like this post because it gets me thinking in a bunch of directions.

I especially like the discussion of time. Have you ever read the "Time Being", a lecture by Zen Master Dogen, founder of the Soto school of zen, back in what we would call the middle ages?

I have it in a book called Moon in a Dewdrop, but it is in lots of collections of Dogen's works.

It says, just to give you a taste, that "being is time, and time is being", and "the time being is the only time there is."

And it contains the most amazing sentence I have ever come across in the whole history of philosophy:

"Consider, now, whether any being, or any world, is left out of the present moment."
:D

Love Dogen....but have not read that particular lecture...there is just so much of this amazing literature, my cup runneth over.

Thanks for your response. :P
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Dontaskme
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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

alan1000 wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:34 pm What makes us "special" is our intense narcissism. We love thinking about ourselves; we are our favourite subject. Objectively, it is difficult to understand what makes human life more valuable than the life of a cockroach, without invoking Nazist philosophy. Funny old world, eh?
Appearances are deceptive...appearances are not what you think, nor are they otherwise...appearances are the many of the one.

The one that doesn't die because it was never born.

Watch this space,else you miss it.

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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:49 pm Modern technology has affirmed that our face is the most important thing in the universe. That is all we can know. It has been affirmed by the selfie. A person can be in the presence of the most beautiful or the most sacred but it is really unimportant unless a person takes a picture of it with their smiling face in it. The selfie has affirmed that without our face, the picture is unimportant, it is all meaningless. This is all we can know.
We look at the imaged face because we have no other way of seeing it. It's an image of the imageless....and I don't know about you Nick, but I happen to think that's a pretty cool trick...positively magic.

Thanks for your very good reply.

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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Dontaskme »

Everything we know is already known...there is nothing known in the immediate moment, nothing is known of what is going to happen next.

All knowing is of memory, which is dead, not alive, not this fresh alive potential that is brimming to capacity waiting to manifest as new.

Therefore, all knowledge is illusory. Only consciousness is, consciousness is not an illusion.

But here's the rub, to imply consciousness is to imply some one or some thing has consciousness. Hold that thought still, and watch it disappear, notice what's left ..what's left is prior to any thought....it is the unborn ...and what is unborn cannot die. Only thoughts are born and die. The thought holder does not.

The thought holder cannot be captured by a thought, for the thought will dominate every time. The thought veils the thought holder, BUT the thought holder has to be first prior to any thought, else thought would never even arise.

That thought holder is AWARENESS...which is not a thought.

You need to be stone cold sober to think like this.



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Re: All We Can Know Is We Don't Know.

Post by Impenitent »

how do you know that you do not know?

how did you prove that negative?

-Imp
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