Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

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Science Fan
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Science Fan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:19 pm

Greatest: What I stated about US law is 100% correct. It is also a sign that our laws are rational regarding free-speech. You would silence people who express their opinions against homosexuality. That would be illegal in the USA. If you disagree with someone speaking out against homosexuals, and I disagree with them myself, then your remedy in the USA is to come up with a better argument and you get to speak your mind freely in defense of homosexuality. This requires people to think through their positions, as opposed to relying upon a government censor to eliminate the need for thinking. It is a path to totalitarianism when people prefer government censorship to reasoned debate.

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Greatest I am
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:19 pm
Greatest: What I stated about US law is 100% correct. It is also a sign that our laws are rational regarding free-speech. You would silence people who express their opinions against homosexuality. That would be illegal in the USA. If you disagree with someone speaking out against homosexuals, and I disagree with them myself, then your remedy in the USA is to come up with a better argument and you get to speak your mind freely in defense of homosexuality. This requires people to think through their positions, as opposed to relying upon a government censor to eliminate the need for thinking. It is a path to totalitarianism when people prefer government censorship to reasoned debate.
Try standing up in church when they are badmouthing gays and women as preaching inequality and see how far you get and you will see who the totalitarians are.

The mainstream religions are fraudulent and live off of lying to your friends and neighbors.

If you call that free speech, then support them all you like.

IMO, free speech is not fraud but what the lying clergy are doing is and it is hate speech more than free speech.

I like free speech and even hate speech if the target is hateful homophobic and misogynous religions.

Regards
DL

Nick_A
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:24 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:33 pm
Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp& ... CgTyqsYAOA

Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.

Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.

Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.

Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.

I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.

Do you?

Regards
DL
The religion of the Great Beast as exercised by government is as fraudulent as any other religion. How can we protect ourselves from reliance on forms of socialism which have endlessly proven their inevitable descent into corruption?

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:27 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:24 pm

The religion of the Great Beast as exercised by government is as fraudulent as any other religion. How can we protect ourselves from reliance on forms of socialism which have endlessly proven their inevitable descent into corruption?
I think it boils down to the question of why we continue to live by ignoring and tolerating all the liars, be they religious or government.

We all live in oligarchies, regardless of what we name our countries, yet continue to delude ourselves, or just stubbornly refuse to face the truth, that all of our social manipulators are owned and lying to us on an ongoing basis.

The O.P. is showing that we should be fed up with the religious liars and the states willingness to ignore that our most gullible are victims of religious fraudsters while governments collude with them and ignore the outright fraud.

We get the governments we elect, but do not really have a choice and are too comfy to rebel against the status quo.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:27 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:24 pm

The religion of the Great Beast as exercised by government is as fraudulent as any other religion. How can we protect ourselves from reliance on forms of socialism which have endlessly proven their inevitable descent into corruption?
I think it boils down to the question of why we continue to live by ignoring and tolerating all the liars, be they religious or government.

We all live in oligarchies, regardless of what we name our countries, yet continue to delude ourselves, or just stubbornly refuse to face the truth, that all of our social manipulators are owned and lying to us on an ongoing basis.

The O.P. is showing that we should be fed up with the religious liars and the states willingness to ignore that our most gullible are victims of religious fraudsters while governments collude with them and ignore the outright fraud.

We get the governments we elect, but do not really have a choice and are too comfy to rebel against the status quo.

Regards
DL
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

PhilX 🇺🇸

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Greatest I am
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:13 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:27 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:24 pm

The religion of the Great Beast as exercised by government is as fraudulent as any other religion. How can we protect ourselves from reliance on forms of socialism which have endlessly proven their inevitable descent into corruption?
I think it boils down to the question of why we continue to live by ignoring and tolerating all the liars, be they religious or government.

We all live in oligarchies, regardless of what we name our countries, yet continue to delude ourselves, or just stubbornly refuse to face the truth, that all of our social manipulators are owned and lying to us on an ongoing basis.

The O.P. is showing that we should be fed up with the religious liars and the states willingness to ignore that our most gullible are victims of religious fraudsters while governments collude with them and ignore the outright fraud.

We get the governments we elect, but do not really have a choice and are too comfy to rebel against the status quo.

Regards
DL
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

PhilX 🇺🇸
Thanks for the garbage.
Now we know what is in your head.

Regards
DL

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:13 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:27 pm


I think it boils down to the question of why we continue to live by ignoring and tolerating all the liars, be they religious or government.

We all live in oligarchies, regardless of what we name our countries, yet continue to delude ourselves, or just stubbornly refuse to face the truth, that all of our social manipulators are owned and lying to us on an ongoing basis.

The O.P. is showing that we should be fed up with the religious liars and the states willingness to ignore that our most gullible are victims of religious fraudsters while governments collude with them and ignore the outright fraud.

We get the governments we elect, but do not really have a choice and are too comfy to rebel against the status quo.

Regards
DL
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

PhilX 🇺🇸
Thanks for the garbage.
Now we know what is in your head.

Regards
DL
Certainly not the garbage you've been spewing out (btw we don't get the government we get for a variety of reasons). Your way oversimplified posts aren't close to reality, are prejudiced and show a one-track mind with no good evidence.

PhilX 🇺🇸

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Greatest I am
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:33 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:13 pm


Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

PhilX 🇺🇸
Thanks for the garbage.
Now we know what is in your head.

Regards
DL
Certainly not the garbage you've been spewing out (btw we don't get the government we get for a variety of reasons). Your way oversimplified posts aren't close to reality, are prejudiced and show a one-track mind with no good evidence.

PhilX 🇺🇸
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5629
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:50 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:33 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm


Thanks for the garbage.
Now we know what is in your head.

Regards
DL
Certainly not the garbage you've been spewing out (btw we don't get the government we get for a variety of reasons). Your way oversimplified posts aren't close to reality, are prejudiced and show a one-track mind with no good evidence.

PhilX 🇺🇸
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL
A flaw in this argument is that the citizens elect the officials to run the country as the average citizen doesn't have the time nor the knowledge to run it (and you sound like an anarchist under these circumstances). Another flaw is the two major political parties don't always agree so it's not simply control by a small group of people.

Would you like me to continue against your simplistic arguments?

PhilX 🇺🇸

Science Fan
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Science Fan » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:43 pm

Greatest: You claim that someone won't be allowed to stand up in a church and say something favorable for gays? Well, here is the thing: 1. Not all churches discriminate against gays. 2. Even for those that do, this is not a free-speech issue at all. No one gets to come into my home and say whatever they want, in the name of free-speech. I have property rights in my home, and can kick people off my property. Likewise, people who own a church, also have property rights and do not have to allow anyone on the premises. So, you are completely overlooking private property rights.

Freedom of speech means that the government cannot ban the content of one's speech, not that private property rights disappear.

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:33 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm


Thanks for the garbage.
Now we know what is in your head.

Regards
DL
Certainly not the garbage you've been spewing out (btw we don't get the government we get for a variety of reasons). Your way oversimplified posts aren't close to reality, are prejudiced and show a one-track mind with no good evidence.

PhilX 🇺🇸
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL
Here are three rebuttals to your link:

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/g ... rchy-study

PhilX 🇺🇸

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5629
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:59 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:43 pm
Greatest: You claim that someone won't be allowed to stand up in a church and say something favorable for gays? Well, here is the thing: 1. Not all churches discriminate against gays. 2. Even for those that do, this is not a free-speech issue at all. No one gets to come into my home and say whatever they want, in the name of free-speech. I have property rights in my home, and can kick people off my property. Likewise, people who own a church, also have property rights and do not have to allow anyone on the premises. So, you are completely overlooking private property rights.

Freedom of speech means that the government cannot ban the content of one's speech, not that private property rights disappear.
When it comes to "all" arguments, they rarely are valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸

Science Fan
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Science Fan » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:15 pm

Phil: True, the use of the word "all" is almost a sign of bigotry, ignorance, or a delayed brain development in a person. Who here has been claiming "all" Americans are warmongers for example? If someone can't figure out that a nation of more than 300 million people would have widely different people who are not "all" alike, then they have to either be a bigot, extremely ignorant or not very bright. How else can one explain such nonsense that even a young child can tell is bullshit?

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:25 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:15 pm
Phil: True, the use of the word "all" is almost a sign of bigotry, ignorance, or a delayed brain development in a person. Who here has been claiming "all" Americans are warmongers for example? If someone can't figure out that a nation of more than 300 million people would have widely different people who are not "all" alike, then they have to either be a bigot, extremely ignorant or not very bright. How else can one explain such nonsense that even a young child can tell is bullshit?
The US has been described as a "melting pot" that the ignorant try to avoid, but can't. To put it simply, the US is the best country on Earth and no amount of so-called fault-finding will change that. And trying to knock the US doesn't make the ignorant's country any better.

PhilX 🇺🇸

Science Fan
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Science Fan » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:41 pm

Phil: Right, the USA has people from all over the globe, and we hold widely divergent opinions. Yet, coming to this forum, I see certain users make the most absurd claims about the USA, claims that are so over-the-top bizarre, one has to seriously question how anyone could come up with such nonsense. But, it is a sign of political correctness ----- blame the USA for anything and everything, unless you blame Israel instead. The USA and Israel seem to be the two countries that people obsess over and make all sorts of bullshit claims about. Of course the same people engaging in this political correctness deny being politically correct. What else is new?

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