Infanticide

[Dubious]

Great, then go and buy the best and most expensive chemistry set on the market ..and make a human being out of it.

I got news for you. That requires nature's laboratory not an expensive chemical set and YOU are a creature of that process along with everything else that's alive. After your time is over, if not cremated, the process continues by "decomposing" you. Live with it!

You’re preaching to the already converted.

Converted to what? since you are lampooning the fact that you were created - as are all things - in nature's laboratory, a product of chemistry!

[SpheresOfBalance]

Everyone has missed the idea which puts the question of infanticide into a universal human as opposed to pragmatic societal perspective.
My view is far more universal than yours shall ever be. As I always look at the entire human race on this blue marble revolving around a star with possibly infinite space as a backdrop, when I formulate my responses. While you just look at the un-substantiated belief in your imaginative mind. There is no necessary substance in the imagination, rather simply selfish fancy!


The universal human perspective respects and values the balanced cycles of life. The pragmatic societal perspective only is aware of parts of the cycle supporting and attacking parts of a cycle which serves its subjective perspective. Where the universal perspective supports life as a whole and is even capable of a love of life itself, the societal pragmatic perspective loves and hates what suits it pragmatic aims.

The life of animal Man on earth is a cycle beginning at conception and concluding at death. Where social pragmatism values socially defined parts of the cycle, the universal human perspective values the whole cycle.

The universalist doesn’t consider the newborn more important than the nine month old fetus. The universalist values the entire cycle between conception and death. Social pragmatism denies this. Where the woman considers herself a universalist would value the sex act itself the secular woman will just say it doesn’t matter. Just have abortions. But the important thing is to express yourself and prove you are equal to a man.

There can be no objective argument against infanticide for the sake of convenience for social pragmatism since it lacks a universal perspective – an emotional recognition of meaning outside the domain of Plato’s cave. An objective love of life itself requires a “feeling” for its meaning, purpose, and objective value as a universal process. This is meaningless for social pragmatism which relies on subjective interpretations of the meaning and purpose of life to justify self importance.

[Greta]

I discuss ideas while you discuss people.

Trouble is, the "ideas" you "discuss" (preach) are usually just abstracted attacks on people.

You are simply incapable of accepting different kinds of people so you lash out constantly under the guise of "discussing ideas". No, your so-called philosophy is simply about hatred of certain types of people, usually seemingly the women who had the temerity to reject you.

[Greta]

You are infamous on this forum for your hatred of secularists, atheists, women, "snowflakes" and left-wingers.

I have never met a person in real life that hated non-religious people as much as you do. My sister was a fundamentalist and not even her crowd hated secularists as you do. Actually, they didn't hate secularists; they just usually avoided them.

If you won't own your hate, it will always own you.

But it's your belief too, otherwise you'd not be getting all flared up and angry at yourself...do you not see how powerful beliefs actually are?

I am not fired up.

I have seen you, however, completely melt down on the forum under pressure more than once. That lack of resilience immediately undermines the personal philosophies you espouse.

All this would have ended except that I banned him from the other forum for being abusive and insulting.

And look at what you have now said to him...in above quote.. Why are you insulting and abusing Nick now? Do you not see the blatant hypocrisy?

A typically manipulative statement. You know the forums have different rules. By the way, unpaid moderators are not paid to put up with insults from the self-entitled.

You might also note that whenever someone engages Nick on ideas he always ignores them if there is a chance for a flame war. I commented on the thread topic but that was, as always, ignored by N because he loves a good fight more than anything.

I have also lost count of the number of times I've tried to give a cogent view on a topic for Nick to effectively reply, "You wouldn't know because you are a secularist" and then provide some unrelated quote.

Best that you mind your own business. After all, none of this actually exists by your reckoning, does it? It's all just an illusion, a product of our imaginations, right? So why are you getting in a flap about defending Ncik? Why not let the two illusions on this illusory forum say illusory things without sticking your non-existent nose into the imaginary situation?

[Nick_A]

Dontaskme

I really hear you Nick...but it will fall on deaf ears. Those with ears will hear, those with eyes will see, many are called, few are chosen...Your compassion is clearly palpable from another awakened being here.

I appreciate your support but remember hostility and these attacks are to be expected. When someone gets a glimpse of an awakened perspective it changes a person and this change makes others uneasy. Greta and others are just responding to something that doesn’t appear normal. It isn’t that I’m anything special. I just experienced a glimpse of a human perpective. Consider how Plato describes it from the Cave Allegory:

[Socrates] This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God knows. But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his eye fixed.

Now, coming out of the sun and not fully accustomed again to living in darkness, a person having experienced the light wants to share even though unsteady but is confronted with experts that at best only confuse everything and at worst kill him.

[Socrates] And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the cave, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.

The question now becomes the value of the intellect in this matter of awakened sight. What knowledge can a psychologically sleeping person have? Yet unaware of our condition we create experts by the boatload who, while equally asleep to reality, claim to explain everything by literal dualistic reason..

This person who has experienced the light has the unenviable task of trying to relate the common sense of it to all these experts and their followers. You think Sisyphus had it tough? Not even boulders can offer resistance like an expert with their heels dug in.

So for the sake of non-experts with an inner knowing that there is something more than shadows, how are they helped by the one who now knows by experience? Of course there is education but of what kind?

Plasto describes it as the soul turning towards the light and Christianity defines it as metanoia.

It is obvious that posters here do not respect life as a cycle and what it means to value it from a higher conscious perspective. Experiencing the light and the awareness of eternal values as product of the light seems absurd.

Does this question of the light interest you?

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

What do you think the “light” refers to? Plato writes of the good. The light was good. What is the source of light without suns?

You are the only one I know here who is unwilling to either prostitute or ridicule the great ideas

My great great grandfather had few if any peers in the ability to paint light. I feel I should contribute something to serve the cause of questioning the human condition and high art has the potential to arouse awakening. So eventually I would like to write something worthy of what he produced in order to stimulate contemplation.

Would you be open to conversing by PMs free of ridicule? Perhaps you may write something that will resonate with me which would appear in an eventual article. I’m in the market for human rather than academic responses. When a person has been touched, a certain something appears within their writings which is far more genuine than the usual. That is why I’m in the market for the responses of those who have experience what it means to turn towards the light.

[Dubious]

Dontaskme

Would you be open to conversing by PMs free of ridicule? Perhaps you may write something that will resonate with me which would appear in an eventual article. I’m in the market for human rather than academic responses. When a person has been touched, a certain something appears within their writings which is far more genuine than the usual. That is why I’m in the market for the responses of those who have experience what it means to turn towards the light.

DAM, please concur with Nick's wish so that none of us ever have to read the miserable stinking hypocrisy that either of you are so prolific at expounding. The light that glows from each of you yields nothing more than a simulacrum, perversion and distortion of what insight and thought is all about. Beam into each other's eyes everything you know of enlightenment but first get a dictionary to understand the terminology so you don't annihilate each other!

[Nick_A]

Dontaskme

Would you be open to conversing by PMs free of ridicule? Perhaps you may write something that will resonate with me which would appear in an eventual article. I’m in the market for human rather than academic responses. When a person has been touched, a certain something appears within their writings which is far more genuine than the usual. That is why I’m in the market for the responses of those who have experience what it means to turn towards the light.

DAM, please concur with Nick's wish so that none of us ever have to read the miserable stinking hypocrisy that either of you are so prolific at expounding. The light that glows from each of you yields nothing more than a simulacrum, perversion and distortion of what insight and thought is all about. Beam into each other's eyes everything you know of enlightenment but first get a dictionary to understand the terminology so you don't annihilate each other!

Can I quote you on this exquisite expression of secular love and tolerance? You could make Oprah cry and give her hope for the future of humanity.

[Dubious]

Dontaskme

Would you be open to conversing by PMs free of ridicule? Perhaps you may write something that will resonate with me which would appear in an eventual article. I’m in the market for human rather than academic responses. When a person has been touched, a certain something appears within their writings which is far more genuine than the usual. That is why I’m in the market for the responses of those who have experience what it means to turn towards the light.

DAM, please concur with Nick's wish so that none of us ever have to read the miserable stinking hypocrisy that either of you are so prolific at expounding. The light that glows from each of you yields nothing more than a simulacrum, perversion and distortion of what insight and thought is all about. Beam into each other's eyes everything you know of enlightenment but first get a dictionary to understand the terminology so you don't annihilate each other!

Can I quote you on this exquisite expression of secular love and tolerance? You could make Oprah cry and give her hope for the future of humanity.

I don't think Oprah would be particularly amenable to your views; she seems far too realistic being the business woman she is. But I do believe the one you auditioned for the honor to conjoin with you, having so much in common, was an excellent choice for a private tête-à-tête on the future of humanity. Maybe you can both collaborate on a self-published book on Amazon that, without infringement of secular heresies, warn against the evils of secularism while propagating the eternal value of your Eternal Values!

[Nick_A]

DAM, please concur with Nick's wish so that none of us ever have to read the miserable stinking hypocrisy that either of you are so prolific at expounding. The light that glows from each of you yields nothing more than a simulacrum, perversion and distortion of what insight and thought is all about. Beam into each other's eyes everything you know of enlightenment but first get a dictionary to understand the terminology so you don't annihilate each other!

Can I quote you on this exquisite expression of secular love and tolerance? You could make Oprah cry and give her hope for the future of humanity.

I don't think Oprah would be particularly amenable to your views; she seems far too realistic being the business woman she is. But I do believe the one you auditioned for the honor to conjoin with you, having so much in common, was an excellent choice for a private tête-à-tête on the future of humanity. Maybe you can both collaborate on a self-published book on Amazon that, without infringement of secular heresies, warn against the evils of secularism while propagating the eternal value of your Eternal Values!

You are becoming as hostile as Greta. If I want to write on my great great grandfather's paintings and his depiction of the interactioos of elemental forces within the context of the "light, what could be gained by exposing such a conversation to hostility and ridicule? Perhaps DaM can relate something of their experiences which would be pertinent to my intent. There are a lot of ideas you can attack and ridicule that are impersonal. This subject is personal so can only be discussed with those free of the compulsion to ridicule and attack what is not understood rather than being open to conscious contemplation.

I learn from you. I experience the power of habitual resistance to ideas which threaten acquired defensive preconceptions. How can the question of infanticide be discussed IRL which invites people to drop defensive preconceptions in pursuit of understanding as opposed to self justification? I have to learn this.

Becoming a demagogue is easy. It requires learning how to act. Projecting the power of the great awakening ideas requires experience and sincerity. These people are rare.

[Dontaskme]

I got news for you. That requires nature's laboratory not an expensive chemical set and YOU are a creature of that process along with everything else that's alive. After your time is over, if not cremated, the process continues by "decomposing" you. Live with it!

You’re preaching to the already converted.

Converted to what? since you are lampooning the fact that you were created - as are all things - in nature's laboratory, a product of chemistry!

You're constantly telling me stuff I already know.

[Dontaskme]

I appreciate your support but remember hostility and these attacks are to be expected. When someone gets a glimpse of an awakened perspective it changes a person and this change makes others uneasy.

I know Nick...I really do understand every word you are saying....and like I've said before, I've been beaten up verbally so many times, on this one and on other forums as well. Even on the Nonduality forums I've been beaten up, even on the Nonduality forums where we are supposed to know what each other are talking about...you can still get beaten to a pulp...the human mind is totally bat shit crazy I tell you.

I'm just popping in to visit this forum to check what condition my uncondition is in...and it's not looking too sweet at the moment.

.

[Greta]

I appreciate your support but remember hostility and these attacks are to be expected. When someone gets a glimpse of an awakened perspective it changes a person and this change makes others uneasy.

I know Nick...I really do understand every word you are saying....and like I've said before, I've been beaten up verbally so many times, on this one and on other forums as well. Even on the Nonduality forums I've been beaten up, even on the Nonduality forums where we are supposed to know what each other are talking about...you can still get beaten to a pulp...the human mind is totally bat shit crazy I tell you.

I'm just popping in to visit this forum to check what condition my uncondition is in...and it's not looking too sweet at the moment.

As the king of ad hominem attacks and the queen of delusion above show their wares ... SNAFU.

If you people sprout nonsense on a philosophy forum you should be able to defend it without shifting immediately to personal attacks. I have never seen either of you two disagree without resorting to personal attacks and lying about being attacked. The fact is that you are each so convinced of your rightness that of cannot bear disagreement with your untested and uncentred thought bubbles.

Neither of you are here to exchange information but to preach your little doctrines.

My issue is that you each ignore, remain ignorant of, and continue to attack science and its findings. Now me, I love science. It's beautiful. So, crazy as I am (as described by DAM, the woman who hypocritically complains about ad hominem attacks), I feel compelled to defend science against each of these invalid, naive and ill-considered attacks.

I should let it go, really. Neither of you have the chops to make it worth wasting the time.

[Dontaskme]

I am not fired up.

I have seen you, however, completely melt down on the forum under pressure more than once. That lack of resilience immediately undermines the personal philosophies you espouse.

Yes, I've seen myself flare up all the time, you don't have to tell me the obvious, I have never put on a pretence show seeking for others approval and acceptance. I openly express my emotions, have done all my life, they are who I am.. whether they be negative or positive, I have no fear of my inner demons, I allow them their right for freedom, all energy is free to express itself...keeping energy repressed is the cause of all human suffering.

And no it does not undermine the philosophy I espouse it compliments it...your idea of what constitutes an awakened being is so far of the mark it's laughable. Think in terms of rose and thorn they exist as one.
Who or what the heck do you think you are trying to expose to the light here? ..there is only the light undercover. Stop being a cliché and think for yourself for once in your life.

A typically manipulative statement. You know the forums have different rules. By the way, unpaid moderators are not paid to put up with insults from the self-entitled.

So according to the forum rules..I am breaking the rules by being insulting. Wow, I guess if the rule to ban insulting posters were an actual real rule then I guess that would be the end of forum posting as we know it. If I'm breaking rules and protocol then why am I still allowed to post?
Do you honestly think I enjoy being a messenger for truth and then being slated for it? I do it out of compassion for my fellow species. I give up a lot of my time, time I could spend doing other things...so ban me, what the heck do I care, you'd probably be doing me a sweet favour if you did ban me. But if it's not meant to be then it's not meant to be is it? ..I'm just like anyone else here with an opinion ..we've all got them and they all stink to a certain degree, perhaps your opinion is a little bit sweeter smelling than mine, who knows, but I like the smell of my own BS, I don't pretend to cover it up in shame. I'm just a simple messenger of truth.

You might also note that whenever someone engages Nick on ideas he always ignores them if there is a chance for a flame war. I commented on the thread topic but that was, as always, ignored by N because he loves a good fight more than anything.

Nope, that's all in your mind. It's not real.

Best that you mind your own business. After all, none of this actually exists by your reckoning, does it? It's all just an illusion, a product of our imaginations, right? So why are you getting in a flap about defending Ncik? Why not let the two illusions on this illusory forum say illusory things without sticking your non-existent nose into the imaginary situation?

Because that's what's apparently happening...got a problem with that? ..seems you like problems to stick real hard don't you, but then you could try using aTeflon mind, that's very good for unsticking stickyness.

Having you finished preaching to the choir of epipthany now?

[Dontaskme]

I should let it go, really. Neither of you have the chops to make it worth wasting the time.

No one ever forces you to watch the movies.

You can turn the movie off any time you want my dear, but you can never turn the movie maker off, aka the watcher. ..as proven in your constant battle to defend your beliefs...no belief, no movie.

And that's all folks.

[Dontaskme]

DAM, please concur with Nick's wish so that none of us ever have to read the miserable stinking hypocrisy that either of you are so prolific at expounding. The light that glows from each of you yields nothing more than a simulacrum, perversion and distortion of what insight and thought is all about. Beam into each other's eyes everything you know of enlightenment but first get a dictionary to understand the terminology so you don't annihilate each other!

Light does not glow from a person. There are no people, there are only stories about people read by the pristine light of pure awareness. All dross appears and disappears into the same one light that exposes it.

You are the light of awareness, not the dross... but if you want to be the dross, then so be it, awareness looks on in detachment not caring because it knows you will always seek the light of your true nature... you cannot leave yourself even for a second...stumbling around in the darkness seems like fun at the time, but it will soon become tiresome..as the weary one you will look for replenishment...which is always available for you because it is you.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.