Prostitution and Eternal Values

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Greta
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Greta » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 am
It is rare to find a sexual prostitute who has studied and practiced development of their being. If they have acquired understanding but strive for power at the expense of others and their own being. then they are objective prostitutes. But some poor woman who has become a lost soul and possibly an addict trying to stay alive and feed her kids isn't a prostitute. She is just a result of the collective human condition and will inspire compassion from anyone who hasn't yet slipped into the psychological gutter.
You cannot be serious. Millions of girls and boys are forced in prosititution, some at a very young age. These children's souls are not deficient. They were just unlucky.

Again, you are too eager to associate the entirety of a person's being with superficial impressions. Rest assured, if you approach another's character superficially what you will find is superficiality, never depth. To observe depth, one needs to have it.

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Conde Lucanor
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Conde Lucanor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 am

What are eternal values? According to the Bible the Tree of the Knowledge of
Good and Evil existed in the garden before Man’s appearance. That means the good and its associated eternal values concerning humanity pre-dated Man on earth. Eternal values must be centered around human conscious evolution towards wholeness . There were no subjective values at this time. That is the objective good for Man.
The Bible is not a reliable source of information, but even worse than that, it is of no use regarding moral direction, as it is not even consistent in the establishment of such guidance, which works opposite to "eternal values". Is killing children OK? If you can come up with a straight, consistent answer from the Bible, I might start believing it provides an objective moral compass.

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Conde Lucanor
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Conde Lucanor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:24 pm
Conde Lucanor wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:12 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:35 am

But if that judgement passes, according to your logic, does that means your observation ceases to exist eventually?
With regards to myself, my observations cease to exist with me. With regards to others, my observations, which they only get to know by way of my expressions, stay in their memories or in the physical records where they might have been stored. They'll be gone when all of these cease to exist, too. That's why archaeologists have a job: the dig out the lost memories, if any remain.
So by default everything you observe will eventually be untrue.
No. Why would that be? If they cease to exist, they will be neither true or untrue.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:24 pm
The problem occurs that the nature of measurement, regardless of historical influence, is ever-present and requires a form of consistency, premised in a lack of change, in order to occur.

In simpler terms the process of connecting the dots is an ever-present form of measurement whether it is viewed quantitatively or qualitatively, and we can observe this following in a similar format in the physical laws of the universe.

In these terms, a universal morality of mirroring through reasoning seems to be inevitable and is summated in moral codes such as the Golden Mean, or moderation as a form of unifying balance.
You have just replaced the term "observation" by "measurement" and start arguing again the same thing I already dealt with when talking about observations. Once again: the measurement implies the measuring agent, the observer.

Belinda
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:32 pm

Why is there a stigma attached to sexual services?

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:43 pm

Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:32 pm
Why is there a stigma attached to sexual services?
That is the question of the thread. Unfortunately dominant secularism has increasingly closed the secular mind to the quality of contemplation necessary to at least intellectually understand the relationship between prostitution and eternal values

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:02 am

Greta wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 am
It is rare to find a sexual prostitute who has studied and practiced development of their being. If they have acquired understanding but strive for power at the expense of others and their own being. then they are objective prostitutes. But some poor woman who has become a lost soul and possibly an addict trying to stay alive and feed her kids isn't a prostitute. She is just a result of the collective human condition and will inspire compassion from anyone who hasn't yet slipped into the psychological gutter.
You cannot be serious. Millions of girls and boys are forced in prosititution, some at a very young age. These children's souls are not deficient. They were just unlucky.

Again, you are too eager to associate the entirety of a person's being with superficial impressions. Rest assured, if you approach another's character superficially what you will find is superficiality, never depth. To observe depth, one needs to have it.
Greta
You cannot be serious. Millions of girls and boys are forced in prosititution, some at a very young age. These children's souls are not deficient. They were just unlucky.
They are not prostitutes but rather slaves. As slaves they cannot prostitute themselves. Sexual prostitution has as its goal material advantage in exchange for the loss of the quality of their being.

Again, you are too eager to associate the entirety of a person's being with superficial impressions. Rest assured, if you approach another's character superficially what you will find is superficiality, never depth. To observe depth, one needs to have it.
Jesus said to let the dead bury their dead. You would be surprised to know how many people walking around are actually spiritually dead or spiritually corrupted as Mary Magdalene was.

How many have the depth necessary to experience the essence of a person as opposed to fighting their personality? If you find one, let me know. I’d like to communicate with them.

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Greta
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Greta » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 am

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:43 pm
Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:32 pm
Why is there a stigma attached to sexual services?
That is the question of the thread.
Only insofar as you were questioning whether there is a problem with trash humans doing trashy work, and seemingly automatically considering any prostitute to be a spiritual null, no matter why he or she took up the job.

I refute your implicit suggestion that prostitutes, simply by virtue of their work, are such primitive specimens that it hardly matters what they do. You cannot judge the call girls or call boys you are using by those encounters - they are only giving you the bare minimum and you have no idea what depths may lie beneath the "professional" facade. This is the iceberg nature of almost all humans - including those forced into horrible jobs.

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Greta
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Greta » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:07 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:02 am
You cannot be serious. Millions of girls and boys are forced in prosititution, some at a very young age. These children's souls are not deficient. They were just unlucky.
They are not prostitutes but rather slaves. As slaves they cannot prostitute themselves. Sexual prostitution has as its goal material advantage in exchange for the loss of the quality of their being.
Not all sex workers are slaves. Whatever slaves (and many paid sex workers) are not "prostituting themselves" but forced to do things they would rather not do to survive. There is a difference. One is caused by childhood damage to self esteem and the other by circumstance.

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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:58 am

DaM
You have no proof that Nick is the most dishonest person on here..there is no such reality existing in the universe as a dishonest Nick or a prostitute short-changing him...except what is believed by you and you alone. You are the one creating those beliefs and believing them into existence by projecting them at what you imagine to be outside of you. You could not even say those things in the first place if you did not believe them to be true. If they are false claims...why would you have even said them at all....? ...so look at who is saying this...do you even know who it is that makes-up these claims about other people? ..how could you ever prove those claims belong to another person... your the one creating the claim not the other person...this is called transference/projection.

There is no one to escape beliefs, because without them there is nothing here, nothing happening. Anything KNOWN is a BELIEF.
I've become convinced that secularism is really like a religious cult. Its God is the Great Beast and whoever questions its supremacy should suffer the same consequences as someone in an Islamic country questioning its God. As you suggest claiming who is honest and who is dishonest is naive. Being attached to the shadows on the wall and the partial truths they create makes it impossible for secularism to open to wholeness at the expense of its beloved fragmentation.

Suppose eternal values do exist and the human condition invites their pragmatic devolutions in the human psych for the sake of societal gains or the acquired earthly values of the Great Beast.
Matthew 16: 26

What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
Sexual prostitution is the prostitution of a very high quality of energy. It is a creative force. When a person sacrifices its quality for earthly gain they lose a great deal through inner corruption. Some women feel this value so don't choose to sell themselves cheaply. Unfortunately secularism encourages selling oneself cheaply in the misguided cause of "equality." Screw anything that walks and have an abortion so as to prove yourself as a woman.

Of course it isn't their fault that the Great Beast uses them. Who but a gifted few can stand up to such powerful influences?

My question here is if our society can once again become aware of the importance of eternal values through awakened conscience without first hitting bottom and suffering catastrophic consequences making us learn the reality of the human condition by experience.

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:19 am

Greta
Only insofar as you were questioning whether there is a problem with trash humans doing trashy work, and seemingly automatically considering any prostitute to be a spiritual null, no matter why he or she took up the job
.

This is the essence of your argument. You define human value by expressions of their acquired personality as opposed to their essence. What is a trash human being and even more what is human value?
Albert Einstein — 'The true value of a human being can be found in the degree to which he has attained liberation from the self.'
Liberation from the self requires recognition of eternal values. Without them there is nothing to liberate ourselves from. We continue to create our own reality and to argue opinions or expressions of the self we need to be liberated from. Knowledge of Objective prostitution as opposed to subjective societal conceptions of prostitution is sacrificed to egoism and materialism. The self wins and we lose.

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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:56 am

Conde Lucanor wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:58 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 am

What are eternal values? According to the Bible the Tree of the Knowledge of
Good and Evil existed in the garden before Man’s appearance. That means the good and its associated eternal values concerning humanity pre-dated Man on earth. Eternal values must be centered around human conscious evolution towards wholeness . There were no subjective values at this time. That is the objective good for Man.
The Bible is not a reliable source of information, but even worse than that, it is of no use regarding moral direction, as it is not even consistent in the establishment of such guidance, which works opposite to "eternal values". Is killing children OK? If you can come up with a straight, consistent answer from the Bible, I might start believing it provides an objective moral compass.
You misunderstand the purpose of the Bible. It isn't a historical document deigned to tell you what to do but rather is a psychological document inviting contemplation that opens the mind to the contrast between the old man and the New Man. If you understand what is written in the following, you will understand Christianity'and why it requires conscious contemplation as opposed to literal analysis.
The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "re-birth". This is their central idea. ... The Gospels are from beginning to end all about this possible self-evolution. They are psychological documents. They are about the psychology of this possible inner development --that is, about what a man must think, feel, and do in order to reach a new level of understanding. ... Everyone has an outer side that has been developed by his contact with life and an inner side which remains vague, uncertain, undeveloped. ... For that reason the teaching of inner evolution must be so formed that it does not fall solely on the outer side of man. It must fall there first, but be capable of penetrating more deeply and awakening the man himself --the inner, unorganized man. A man evolves internally through his deeper reflection, not through his outer life-controlled side. He evolves through the spirit of his understanding and by inner consent to what he sees as truth. The psychological meanings of the relatively fragmentary teaching recorded in the Gospels refers to this deeper, inner side of everyone.

- Maurice Nicoll; The New Man

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Dontaskme
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:45 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:58 am

I've become convinced that secularism is really like a religious cult. Its God is the Great Beast and whoever questions its supremacy should suffer the same consequences as someone in an Islamic country questioning its God. As you suggest claiming who is honest and who is dishonest is naive. Being attached to the shadows on the wall and the partial truths they create makes it impossible for secularism to open to wholeness at the expense of its beloved fragmentation.
Well yes of course anything that aspires to the sense of a separate self is creating the opposite of it's true nature which is wholeness. So yes, it's like a religious cult, even the atheist is a religious cult because it's all belief. It's ironic that an atheist rejects religion and yet believes in itself.

But as we both know this is all mental, it's what happens.

Anything is allowed to happen because there is here only unconditional love and it is that love that allows for anything including the great beast, can't have one without the other...because they are the same one face...it's all God nick....it's all one face, there's always two sides to every story...on the one side is dressed as a wolf fearful for it's life, the other side is naked, fearless and faceless.

Everything sums to zero in the end....because that's all there is ...zero being the many.

Feeling separate is a horrible way to live...and it's the mind that has self created this separate image....it's ugly and uncomfortable so it searches for the Godhead of love and peace and comfort, which is the true nature of reality...only where there is the sense of a separate self will this searching happen.

A prostitute is searching for God...that's all...searching for love, because they have not yet learned to love them selves enough to know that they are love they are God in drag...they already are what they are searching for. And that we continue to hurt ourselves until we don't, until we stop and smell the roses.

.

Dubious
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dubious » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 am

The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "re-birth". This is their central idea. ... The Gospels are from beginning to end all about this possible self-evolution. They are psychological documents. They are about the psychology of this possible inner development --that is, about what a man must think, feel, and do in order to reach a new level of understanding. ... Everyone has an outer side that has been developed by his contact with life and an inner side which remains vague, uncertain, undeveloped. ... For that reason the teaching of inner evolution must be so formed that it does not fall solely on the outer side of man. It must fall there first, but be capable of penetrating more deeply and awakening the man himself --the inner, unorganized man. A man evolves internally through his deeper reflection, not through his outer life-controlled side. He evolves through the spirit of his understanding and by inner consent to what he sees as truth. The psychological meanings of the relatively fragmentary teaching recorded in the Gospels refers to this deeper, inner side of everyone.

- Maurice Nicoll; The New Man
If it's all psychological that implies Christ either didn't exist or need to in the first place. Its long been known that most of this stuff is based on older scripts, philosophies, teachings and stories. It's not unusual or particularly difficult to extract some enhanced "psychological meaning" or lower level superstitions even from the most mundane secular events or expressions not unlike attempting to create gold out of lead though that too was presumed to be symbolic. Not least, the gospels served as propaganda texts meant to keep the existing flocks faithful in its earliest days. In that sense, they were indeed psychological.

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Greta
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Greta » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:19 am
Greta
Only insofar as you were questioning whether there is a problem with trash humans doing trashy work, and seemingly automatically considering any prostitute to be a spiritual null, no matter why he or she took up the job
.

This is the essence of your argument. You define human value by expressions of their acquired personality as opposed to their essence. What is a trash human being and even more what is human value?
Why do you define "human value"? So as to establish a status? To establish a new status order?

Why not just accept diversity rather than picking at the weakest and most vulnerable?

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:38 pm

Dubious wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 am
The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "re-birth". This is their central idea. ... The Gospels are from beginning to end all about this possible self-evolution. They are psychological documents. They are about the psychology of this possible inner development --that is, about what a man must think, feel, and do in order to reach a new level of understanding. ... Everyone has an outer side that has been developed by his contact with life and an inner side which remains vague, uncertain, undeveloped. ... For that reason the teaching of inner evolution must be so formed that it does not fall solely on the outer side of man. It must fall there first, but be capable of penetrating more deeply and awakening the man himself --the inner, unorganized man. A man evolves internally through his deeper reflection, not through his outer life-controlled side. He evolves through the spirit of his understanding and by inner consent to what he sees as truth. The psychological meanings of the relatively fragmentary teaching recorded in the Gospels refers to this deeper, inner side of everyone.

- Maurice Nicoll; The New Man
If it's all psychological that implies Christ either didn't exist or need to in the first place. Its long been known that most of this stuff is based on older scripts, philosophies, teachings and stories. It's not unusual or particularly difficult to extract some enhanced "psychological meaning" or lower level superstitions even from the most mundane secular events or expressions not unlike attempting to create gold out of lead though that too was presumed to be symbolic. Not least, the gospels served as propaganda texts meant to keep the existing flocks faithful in its earliest days. In that sense, they were indeed psychological.
If human beings are capable of conscious evolution into a higher quality of being a certain quality of help from above is needed. The Christ brought the Spirit into the world via the Crucifixion and Resurrection. The potential for re-birth was always known, Jesus manifested it.

The Gospels are indications of the human condition and the New Testament especially provides indications for re-birth. Objective quality will always be corrupted by the world. It is an aspect of the human condition. For many years people were forbidden to read the Bible to avoid the natural effects of corruption. But the secular church corrupted the teaching for its own purposes. Either way corruption wins when earthly influences dominate. The problem becomes how to acquire the quality of consciousness necessary to read the Bible without allowing earthly influences to corrupt its message.

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