Prostitution and Eternal Values

[Nick_A]

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

No values have ever been or ever will be eternal. The human evolves. Sometimes we take two steps forward and one step back, while that one step back can be extremely painful, (trump), it's factual nature eventually shows us the true way.

This may be true for life in Plato’s cave which is the sole concern for the secularist but it isn’t true for the universalist.

Respect for life would be an eternal value for a universalist. It would be the same for all expressions of conscious life in our great universe. Conscious beings in another solar system would still feel respect for life as an eternal value.

Of course the human condition which creates Plato’s cave is one of these extremely rare places in our great universe that doesn’t recognize eternal values but insists on creating its own reality

Definition of PROSTITUTE ONESELF FROM MERRIAM WEBSTER

1: to work as a prostitute : to offer oneself for sex in exchange for money

2: to do something that is below one's level of skill or ability in order to make money
• a writer who prostituted himself by writing commercials

If we don’t know what respect for life means or its connection to sexuality, we cannot have an appreciation that can be prostituted. I feel sorry for the young women who “feel” the objective value of respect for life and its connection with sexuality and are called every name in the book for being old fashioned. There is nothing to feel. It is all your imagination. There are no eternal values. If the men screw anything that walks you are entitled to do the same in the struggle for equality. It is the modern way and proof of freedom through the success of secular progressive education.

I can just imagine some psychologists from another star system trying to analyse how we devolved in such a way. I'd like to read their report.

[Dontaskme]

There is no other place beyond what is here right now...it's not like you can step out of the now. This is what eternal means.

You're out of your mind as it was used by the OP. Pay attention to context! You said yourself that values are not certain. Here today, gone tomorrow, there is no eternal. Are you still saying, "goo goo gaa gaa?" No! We change, as do our values. How's that mammoth taste? Should I or should I not kill a mammoth? You and I are the culmination of everything that has come before us, and we shall add to that which comes after us, but what that was, is and shall be, is ever changing, never eternal!

How could you know change without the opposite changeless to compare it to?

Nothing changes, change is an appearance of the unchanging eternal now. Consciousness / awareness does not change, does not come and go..but what appears to consciousness aka the mental narrative aka knowledge does come and go.

The value is put there by the intelligence of eternal consciousness, not the human...the human is just one experience consciousness is having.

There is no devil, there is only humankind maturing in ever varying environments, with ever varying results, thus ever varying ways to deal with the primal fear of death, (to survive)!!! Some ideas are just not conducive to others.

You cannot talk about the fear of death...you have no idea what death is...except the idea of death. That idea can only arise where there is the sense of a separate self..which is a totally false belief.

In fact all your responses are based upon fear...all false beliefs.

I actually agree with Nick in all that he posts.

.

[Dontaskme]

No values have ever been or ever will be eternal.

They are because what and who you are is eternal.

Not a chance!

The value is placed there by you,

Exactly!

You as consciousness. Put there by you this eternal consciousness.

A human being does not have consciousness...a human being IS consciousness, so is a mammoth CONSCIOUSNESS.

Do you not understand what consciousness is?

It is consciousness that grants every idea to be, ever unchanging eternally..not humans.

There is no such thing as a human value except as an idea coming and going in consciousness granted by that consciousness.

Makes no difference to consciousness whether a value has value or not....it's already all knowingly perfect living a life of imperfection or not . Nothing can devalue that which is eternally present.

When you know you are eternal presence..the shadow dark side of you (devil) evaporates, it can no longer do any deals with you, or sell you anything...because you simply know you are not for sale.

Humans sell their souls to the devil (themselves) because they fear death, which is the lie. So they're out for themselves, a what's in this for me sort of attitude...it's not a happy place.

.

[A_Seagull]

Given the choice of having dinner with a prostitute or a moralist, I would choose the prostitute every time.

I have no doubt the conversation would be more entertaining and honest.

[Dubious]

Then why talk about coming from and going to an idea. Ideas are thoughts. You couldn't have one without thinking. It's so easy to come up with ideas that don't make sense, isn't it.

No it doesn't make sense to say you were born and that you will die. . . without knowing what it is that is born and dies.

Oh, that's easy! It's called your biological self as determined by nature and not any stupid Eastern shit such as the transmigration of souls. etc. Imagine what you like but when you're dead you're gone with no memory you were ever here. Nature doesn't owe you more; actually it owes you nothing! Why should it

All you can do is to toss inanities that we come from an idea and we go back to an idea. When you say without knowing what it is that is born and dies, the assumption is made that somebody knows, really knows. If you, why not give us a clue one anchored in reality not super vague garbage which can mean anything which invariably defaults to nothing. The super shit people write on philosophy forums makes one wonder if they don't in fact belong to a separate species or some weird deformation of it.

Knowledge likely has limits; absurdity none whatsoever as evidenced by those who specialize!

[Dubious]

Given the choice of having dinner with a prostitute or a moralist, I would choose the prostitute every time.

Indeed! The first blowjob is far preferable to the second one which is more equivalent to blowing hot air though it may dry your hair faster while shrinking your brain.

[Nick_A]

Given the choice of having dinner with a prostitute or a moralist, I would choose the prostitute every time.

I have no doubt the conversation would be more entertaining and honest.

That is because you admire the ability of the political prostitute to lie to your face. Other than to learn this skill trough direct experience I don't see what is so attractive about dining with a politician who prostitutes the good they are capable of by taking bribes. But to each his own. I'll stick with the moralist.

[Nick_A]

Then why talk about coming from and going to an idea. Ideas are thoughts. You couldn't have one without thinking. It's so easy to come up with ideas that don't make sense, isn't it.

No it doesn't make sense to say you were born and that you will die. . . without knowing what it is that is born and dies.

Oh, that's easy! It's called your biological self as determined by nature and not any stupid Eastern shit such as the transmigration of souls. etc. Imagine what you like but when you're dead you're gone with no memory you were ever here. Nature doesn't owe you more; actually it owes you nothing! Why should it

All you can do is to toss inanities that we come from an idea and we go back to an idea. When you say without knowing what it is that is born and dies, the assumption is made that somebody knows, really knows. If you, why not give us a clue one anchored in reality not super vague garbage which can mean anything which invariably defaults to nothing. The super shit people write on philosophy forums makes one wonder if they don't in fact belong to a separate species or some weird deformation of it.

Knowledge likely has limits; absurdity none whatsoever as evidenced by those who specialize!

The egoism of the secular mind that denies the potential for a reality greater than itself and limits itself to justifying its cave perceptions really has no limits. How a person can call Eastern ideas nothing but shit is beyond me. But welcome to the modern educated mind. Anyhow, this modern educated mind will call these ideas and other ideas shit. They know it because of education; the modern method of protection against the open mind. That is called the power of reason. Anyhow for all interested consider some of the ideas listed in the following link of which I include a sample. Only the modern educated western mind will call it shit. Others not so educated can appreciate how the ancients understood the reality and importance of eternal values.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... ts_1.shtml

Atman
Atman means 'eternal self'. The atman refers to the real self beyond ego or false self. It is often referred to as 'spirit' or 'soul' and indicates our true self or essence which underlies our existence.
There are many interesting perspectives on the self in Hinduism ranging from the self as eternal servant of God to the self as being identified with God. The understanding of the self as eternal supports the idea of reincarnation in that the same eternal being can inhabit temporary bodies.
The idea of atman entails the idea of the self as a spiritual rather than material being and thus there is a strong dimension of Hinduism which emphasises detachment from the material world and promotes practices such as asceticism. Thus it could be said that in this world, a spiritual being, the atman, has a human experience rather than a human being having a spiritual experience.


Dharma
Dharma is an important term in Indian religions. In Hinduism it means 'duty', 'virtue', 'morality', even 'religion' and it refers to the power which upholds the universe and society. Hindus generally believe that dharma was revealed in the Vedas although a more common word there for 'universal law' or 'righteousness' is rita. Dharma is the power that maintains society, it makes the grass grow, the sun shine, and makes us moral people or rather gives humans the opportunity to act virtuously…………………………...

[Dontaskme]

Then why talk about coming from and going to an idea. Ideas are thoughts. You couldn't have one without thinking. It's so easy to come up with ideas that don't make sense, isn't it.

No it doesn't make sense to say you were born and that you will die. . . without knowing what it is that is born and dies.

Oh, that's easy! It's called your biological self as determined by nature and not any stupid Eastern shit such as the transmigration of souls. etc. Imagine what you like but when you're dead you're gone with no memory you were ever here. Nature doesn't owe you more; actually it owes you nothing! Why should it

All you can do is to toss inanities that we come from an idea and we go back to an idea. When you say without knowing what it is that is born and dies, the assumption is made that somebody knows, really knows. If you, why not give us a clue one anchored in reality not super vague garbage which can mean anything which invariably defaults to nothing. The super shit people write on philosophy forums makes one wonder if they don't in fact belong to a separate species or some weird deformation of it.

Knowledge likely has limits; absurdity none whatsoever as evidenced by those who specialize!

No one is special because everyone is special, we can all know ourselves if we self inquire...but until you do this, no truth will ever reveal. You have to find out for yourself ..''Who am I, who is the knower....and only when you do this will the correct answer be revealed.

Evolution in this particular timeline known as earth life actually evolved itself to this point in time aka (the dreamt experience)....so I think you ought to feel some kind of gratitude for it's effortless effort at least.


You can only know yourself. You cannot know others, and yet you can know others ..but only when you know yourself first. You have to do your own inner work first, you will not find it in another human.

This knowing is who you are, it is direct experiencing. Not difficult, but then the mind will make it difficult.

I can't share what the juice of an orange tastes like to you until you too taste the juice of an orange for yourself.....I can't taste it for you.....so knowing thy self is like that analogy....

You can reject this message all you want, it's your funeral.

.

.

You need to drop all the conditioned concepts that only serve to point you away from truth. And realise you are the actual centre-less empty pointer ....you are not what's being pointed to.

What's being pointed at are appearances in you, of you...they come and go in you...while you do not come and go, you are the eternal one.

[Dontaskme]

Indeed! The first blowjob is far preferable to the second one which is more equivalent to blowing hot air though it may dry your hair faster while shrinking your brain.

Talk is so cheap.

I'd rather eat broken glass than trade cheap talking just for the sake of approval ...

...''know thy self,'' it's your only true friend.

You did not come into the world as a ''separate being''...you came out of yourself that is already here always...life can only come from life. Life is unconscious..and out of that comes the conscious one aka the ego appearance.

If you are here now.. then that must mean you have always been here. It is impossible for you to ''not be here'', how would you ever ''KNOW'' you are not here?

This is a tricky one for the mind to understand.

This is what you have to realise...grace will come if it's meant to come, if life evolves that in you.. but only when you surrender your ego and come into phase, to be in synchronisation with life living itself effortlessly.


.

[Dontaskme]

You did not come into the world as a ''separate being''...you came out of yourself that is already here always...life can only come from life. Life is unconscious..and out of that comes the conscious one aka the ego appearance.

If you are here now.. then that must mean you have always been here. It is impossible for you to ''not be here'', how would you ever ''KNOW'' you are not here?


.

How can you ever know you are not here now?

You have never known death.

If you hold the belief that you die, then prove it before making ridiculous silly conditioned beliefs ...investigate for yourself....have you ever died?

You'll soon see that it's just a silly belief.

Going to sleep at night, you are not afraid to do in case you never wake up again, because you know you will wake up.

Well the death of the body at old age when it can no longer function properly is like that...it's not really a death...it's a falling asleep back into the ocean of unconsciousness until a new body is generated into consciousness once again.

Nature graces itself with renewal because it's so extraordinary in it's intelligence.

It's an endless cycle that cannot be broken, so there is no way out..there's only back in....so even suicide is not an option, for who would / could die?

.

[-1-]

Given the choice of having dinner with a prostitute or a moralist, I would choose the prostitute every time.

I have no doubt the conversation would be more entertaining and honest.

Dinner with moralist:

Moralist: "So I told her that she still short changed me, because I gave her a twenty. But I said, one of the deadliest virtues is charity, so I will exercise my virtue, and leave her the extra change that she could do with as she wished."
Moralist (takes a bite of brisket.)
I: "This chicken is tough."
Moralist: "Yes, the cook was immoral in cooking it too long."
I: "And the potatoes are made of powder, not of real potatoes. The mashed potatoes."
Moralist: "Yes, and therefore the chef will burn in eternal hellfire for doing so and destroying the culinary experience of such vast huge large amount of people on a daily basis."
I: "Seen any good movies lately?"
Moralist: "Yes, I'd say. One of the best movies I've ever seen was a new one last week, "The Eternal Unsolvability Principle and Its Ramification in Goeddel's Eschenbau und Heimatsfruhe" You gotta go and see it."
I: "O...ooookay."

Prostitute: "I am hungry. Buy me some food."
I: "Okay, you want the chicken, or the garlic butter-soaked oversalted shrimp, semi-cooked for your salmonella-laden culinary pleasure?"
Prostitute: "Whichever is more expensive."
I: "So, I mean earm, ize, it's a nice day we are having, aren't we?"
Prostitute: "Waiter, there is a fucking fly in my soup."
Waiter: (Oxford Ph.D. in philosophy) Hm. (He gives himself to great thought. Finally:) Ma'm, it's impossible.
Prostitute: "What do you mean?"
Waiter: "A fly all by itself alone, can't be fucking. That's copulation, and by definition, it needs two flies of opposite sexes. Maybe the Mademoiselle meant to say that the fly is self-engaged in autoerotica."
Prostitute: "Whatever. I fell asleep somewhere in the middle of your monologue there. Repeat?"
I: "Waiter, please bring another fly so the one in the soup is not so lonely."
Waiter: "Right away, sir. You want a blonde one, a brunette, or a read-head?"
I: "Read-head?"
Waiter: "Yes, a fly with a well-rounded reading list below her belt, from Faulkner to Boussireaivedaicissime, to Sommerset Maugham, to Tante Dante."
I: "Will we have time to eat the soup between sentences of the literary fly?"
Waiter: "if that's a concern, sir, I'll bring a deaf and mute one. Or if we out of those, can I bring the ma'm a dead and mute one?"
Prositute: "I need a hit. Anyone has any crack?"
I: "Buth Thelma! Not in public!?"
Prostitute: (in singing voice) "I'll go down on yo-o-ou first!"
I:

[Belinda]

Dontaskme, given that Atman is Brahman, is a prostitute's body separate from atman?

[Dubious]

Going to sleep at night, you are not afraid to do in case you never wake up again, because you know you will wake up.

This is far less certain than knowing that the sun will rise tomorrow even if death should unexpectedly preempt my seeing it.

Anyways, thank you for the pep talk but frankly I'm more of a Joseph Campbell kind of guy. Him I can comprehend when he writes/speaks of the world's mythologies, their metaphors and symbols. His interpretations make sense both from a secular, sacred or theistic perspective. He would say if what you affirm in your posts resonate with you then you found your bliss. That is the moment of eternity offered to the living. Should life offer a greater enhancement beyond these blessings? It's precisely the eternity of non-existence which intensifies and focuses the feeling inward knowing that the life of the individual is the totality of his or her existence.

Nature obviously renews and recycles; but as the saying goes no two snowflakes are the same..., meaning it doesn't require your services, once deceased, to keep going.

[Arising_uk]

... Only the modern educated western mind will call it shit. Others not so educated can appreciate how the ancients understood the reality and importance of eternal values.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... ts_1.shtml

Atman
Atman means 'eternal self'. The atman refers to the real self beyond ego or false self. It is often referred to as 'spirit' or 'soul' and indicates our true self or essence which underlies our existence.
There are many interesting perspectives on the self in Hinduism ranging from the self as eternal servant of God to the self as being identified with God. The understanding of the self as eternal supports the idea of reincarnation in that the same eternal being can inhabit temporary bodies.
The idea of atman entails the idea of the self as a spiritual rather than material being and thus there is a strong dimension of Hinduism which emphasises detachment from the material world and promotes practices such as asceticism. Thus it could be said that in this world, a spiritual being, the atman, has a human experience rather than a human being having a spiritual experience.


Dharma
Dharma is an important term in Indian religions. In Hinduism it means 'duty', 'virtue', 'morality', even 'religion' and it refers to the power which upholds the universe and society. Hindus generally believe that dharma was revealed in the Vedas although a more common word there for 'universal law' or 'righteousness' is rita. Dharma is the power that maintains society, it makes the grass grow, the sun shine, and makes us moral people or rather gives humans the opportunity to act virtuously…………………………...

I think there're a few reasons why such stuff is pooh-poohed Nick_A, one, because it meets Socrates criteria of talking about what one doesn't know, two, it fails Kant's criteria in that it talks about what one cannot know, three, such 'eternal values' still appear to allow one to ignore the plight of one's fellows and four, there's bugger all evidence for any of it and we in the 'West' have discovered that, whilst fun, ontological logical metaphysics does not discover eternal truths whilst the natural philosophers appear to have at least found a way to talk about what's outside the cave with, if not total veracity, at least some benficial consequences for the rest of us.