Prostitution and Eternal Values

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Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm

DaM
Well yes of course anything that aspires to the sense of a separate self is creating the opposite of it's true nature which is wholeness. So yes, it's like a religious cult, even the atheist is a religious cult because it's all belief. It's ironic that an atheist rejects religion and yet believes in itself.
I think this is the essential difference in our perspectives. I see the expression “I Am” as used in the Bible as referring to the unification of unity and diversity. Where I is unity Am contains all of its devolutionary potentials. I may be wrong but you seem to be saying that “AM’ is an imaginary creation since we are all ONE. I’m saying that the universe is a cosmological structure based on lawful levels of reality or qualities of being having different blends of spirit and matter. The lower the level of reality the greater the density of matter and amount of laws that govern it. The whole idea of conscious evolution is the change of being from the lower into the higher. From this perspective for example a miracle is easy to understand as the manifestation of what is normal for a higher level of reality manifesting either intentionally or accidentally onto a lower.

I remember watching a Star Trek episode where Troi became pregnant and no one knew why. It turned out that a quality of being made her pregnant without an earthly father in order to experience the world. When I saw that I wondered how many would begin to equate it with the Virgin birth. It seems miraculous to us but normal for the connection between levels of reality comprising the living universe.

Are lawful fractions real for you? ONE can be divided into two halves and four quarters etc. Granted, without ONE, fractions do not exist. But can ONE exist without fractions? I AM for me is just a necessary unification between no-thing and nothing with everything in-between.
A prostitute is searching for God...that's all...searching for love, because they have not yet learned to love them selves enough to know that they are love they are God in drag...they already are what they are searching for. And that we continue to hurt ourselves until we don't, until we stop and smell the roses.
The trouble as I see it is that we are not “I AM”. The human condition has made us “we are”. We lack inner unity. In reality we are a plurality. Man’s name is legion. So how much in this plurality is searching for God and how much is searching for self justification? The objective human struggle is always between our higher and lower natures. It isn’t a matter of self love but of the love of self or the potential for human being described as “I AM.” We are the “wretched man” with the being potential for inner unity or a “Son of God.” For that a certain quality of help is needed.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:21 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:41 pm
Does prostitution exist for those who do not recognize eternal values? By eternal values I mean “everlasting morals, enduring principle” which have always existed.

It has become acceptable in modern times to suggest that we create our own reality and values so by definition they have a pragmatic social origin. They are temporary in contrast with eternal values which are permanent.

From this perspective is it right to say that sexual prostitution no longer exists since there are no eternal values? We create our own values. If women or men are seen as prostitutes, aren’t they really just being themselves? How can a person prostitute themselves if they create their own reality and have nothing objective to prostitute? A man or woman cannot sell themselves cheaply since they are just being normal and have defined their own worth.

Should colleges ban the use of the word since like many other words, prostitution or the loss of objective human quality by selling oneself cheaply is now considered insulting and politically incorrect?
i think we should get to the bottomline here. the hippocampus.

the fact is, u and society believes that men are buttugly abominations. thats what it boils down to. so u want to save the poor womens from having to endure a loving connection with a creature which is a buttugly abomination. human men lumber like apes n gorrillas. it is no wonder females get turned on riding horses more than they do on a date with a man. human men have an ape like morphology.

so, to you, prostitution is a disgusting thing, associated with negative mental trauma, because men are buttugly abominations.

so what is the fix? make men more physically beautiful. In the animal kingdom, males are the most physically beautiful and glamourous, but human society is inverted, males wear drab clothes now.

it is ez 2 hate, hard 2 love

Dubious
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dubious » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:38 pm
Dubious wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 am
The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "re-birth". This is their central idea. ... The Gospels are from beginning to end all about this possible self-evolution. They are psychological documents. They are about the psychology of this possible inner development --that is, about what a man must think, feel, and do in order to reach a new level of understanding. ... Everyone has an outer side that has been developed by his contact with life and an inner side which remains vague, uncertain, undeveloped. ... For that reason the teaching of inner evolution must be so formed that it does not fall solely on the outer side of man. It must fall there first, but be capable of penetrating more deeply and awakening the man himself --the inner, unorganized man. A man evolves internally through his deeper reflection, not through his outer life-controlled side. He evolves through the spirit of his understanding and by inner consent to what he sees as truth. The psychological meanings of the relatively fragmentary teaching recorded in the Gospels refers to this deeper, inner side of everyone.

- Maurice Nicoll; The New Man
If it's all psychological that implies Christ either didn't exist or need to in the first place. Its long been known that most of this stuff is based on older scripts, philosophies, teachings and stories. It's not unusual or particularly difficult to extract some enhanced "psychological meaning" or lower level superstitions even from the most mundane secular events or expressions not unlike attempting to create gold out of lead though that too was presumed to be symbolic. Not least, the gospels served as propaganda texts meant to keep the existing flocks faithful in its earliest days. In that sense, they were indeed psychological.
If human beings are capable of conscious evolution into a higher quality of being a certain quality of help from above is needed. The Christ brought the Spirit into the world via the Crucifixion and Resurrection. The potential for re-birth was always known, Jesus manifested it.
What a load of bunk! Jesus manifested nothing and concluded life with death like every mortal. Even his brother James affirmed, Jesus was born like everyone else. It was Paul who resurrected him while not showing the least interest with any biographical details regarding his life. Since it was Paul's acts and epistles which preceded the writings of the evangelists they had something to work with when writing their gospels. All this bible crap is now so much a part of history whose story, if properly understood, is far more secular than sacred.

With all that intense internal illumination of yours which proclaims the secular as the great beast and possesses no other tools than incessantly quoting others for support, what has your enlightenment actually achieved, what true insights and revelations has it brought except what you incessantly "borrow" from others. The very core of all your arguments lies in your unceasing crusade against secularism without realizing that at the root everything derives from it even theism.

It's futile communicating with a granite mentality such as yours, the archetypal condition of every freakish zealot. Reading Hitler's Mein Kampf instead of yours feels much less a total waste of time.

Btw, rebirth and resurrection are NOT the same; there's a fundamental distinction which has again eluded you. Is your enlightenment enlightened enough to know what it is?

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:51 am

Dubious
What a load of bunk! Jesus manifested nothing and concluded life with death like every mortal.
What died in your opinion?
With all that intense internal illumination of yours which proclaims the secular as the great beast and possesses no other tools than incessantly quoting others for support, what has your enlightenment actually achieved, what true insights and revelations has it brought except what you incessantly "borrow" from others. The very core of all your arguments lies in your unceasing crusade against secularism without realizing that at the root everything derives from it even theism.
I know how much secularism abhors the sacred. That being the case I quote sources that have helped my understanding. The dominant secular influence abhors the sacred. It is a danger to its supremacy.

I’ve noticed that secularism is not for anything other than equality in slavery. Secularism is always AGAINST something. That is why you think I am against secularism. Actually I am FOR a societal metaxu that furthers the human connection with higher consciousness. Against vs For. The goal of equality in slavery vs furthering the natural impulse for the individual to become the cosmic man. Which mindset will eventually dominate?

Nick_A
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:17 am

Here is an excellent example how the word “sacred” becomes meaningless through being seculrized

From Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution
Ancient near Eastern societies along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers featured many shrines and temples or houses of heaven dedicated to various deities. The 5th-century BC historian Herodotus's account and some other testimony from the Hellenistic Period and Late Antiquity suggest that ancient societies encouraged the practice of sacred sexual rites not only in Babylonia and Cyprus, but throughout the Near East.
According to Herodotus, the rites performed at these temples included sexual intercourse, or what scholars later called sacred sexual rites:
The foulest Babylonian custom is that which compels every woman of the land to sit in the temple of Aphrodite and have intercourse with some stranger at least once in her life. Many women who are rich and proud and disdain to mingle with the rest, drive to the temple in covered carriages drawn by teams, and stand there with a great retinue of attendants. But most sit down in the sacred plot of Aphrodite, with crowns of cord on their heads; there is a great multitude of women coming and going; passages marked by line run every way through the crowd, by which the men pass and make their choice. Once a woman has taken her place there, she does not go away to her home before some stranger has cast money into her lap, and had intercourse with her outside the temple; but while he casts the money, he must say, “I invite you in the name of Mylitta”. It does not matter what sum the money is; the woman will never refuse, for that would be a sin, the money being by this act made sacred. So she follows the first man who casts it and rejects no one. After their intercourse, having discharged her sacred duty to the goddess, she goes away to her home; and thereafter there is no bribe however great that will get her. So then the women that are fair and tall are soon free to depart, but the uncomely have long to wait because they cannot fulfil the law; for some of them remain for three years, or four. There is a custom like this in some parts of Cyprus.[2]
Suppose instead of the Temple of Aphrodite we created the Temple of the Beast and drafted the sacred prostitutes to serve their country by visiting this now sacred Temple providing cash to the federal government for their secular ventures. Don’t laugh, it may happen. You too can be called to bend over and serve your country in a government approved sacred undertaking.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by A_Seagull » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:44 am

Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:32 pm
Why is there a stigma attached to sexual services?
Maybe there should be a stigma associated with those people who think there is a stigma associated with sexual services.

PS It is pointless arguing with people who believe in magic.

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Conde Lucanor
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Conde Lucanor » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:58 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:56 am
Conde Lucanor wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:58 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 am

What are eternal values? According to the Bible the Tree of the Knowledge of
Good and Evil existed in the garden before Man’s appearance. That means the good and its associated eternal values concerning humanity pre-dated Man on earth. Eternal values must be centered around human conscious evolution towards wholeness . There were no subjective values at this time. That is the objective good for Man.
The Bible is not a reliable source of information, but even worse than that, it is of no use regarding moral direction, as it is not even consistent in the establishment of such guidance, which works opposite to "eternal values". Is killing children OK? If you can come up with a straight, consistent answer from the Bible, I might start believing it provides an objective moral compass.
You misunderstand the purpose of the Bible. It isn't a historical document deigned to tell you what to do but rather is a psychological document inviting contemplation that opens the mind to the contrast between the old man and the New Man. If you understand what is written in the following, you will understand Christianity'and why it requires conscious contemplation as opposed to literal analysis.
The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "re-birth". This is their central idea. ... The Gospels are from beginning to end all about this possible self-evolution. They are psychological documents. They are about the psychology of this possible inner development --that is, about what a man must think, feel, and do in order to reach a new level of understanding. ... Everyone has an outer side that has been developed by his contact with life and an inner side which remains vague, uncertain, undeveloped. ... For that reason the teaching of inner evolution must be so formed that it does not fall solely on the outer side of man. It must fall there first, but be capable of penetrating more deeply and awakening the man himself --the inner, unorganized man. A man evolves internally through his deeper reflection, not through his outer life-controlled side. He evolves through the spirit of his understanding and by inner consent to what he sees as truth. The psychological meanings of the relatively fragmentary teaching recorded in the Gospels refers to this deeper, inner side of everyone.

- Maurice Nicoll; The New Man
Since the Bible stopped making any sense to educated people, the line of argument shifted to "interpretation". And the more obscure and esoteric, the better, so it's easier to pass as profound knowledge. That's why also the OT is left aside and emphasis is put on the so called gospels. But in any case your answer directly contradicts your previous statements about the Bible providing objective "eternal values". You are now talking about subjective interpretations, analysis that abandons the literal meaning, subjective values that you said the Bible did not provide.

Dubious
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dubious » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:26 am

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:51 am
Dubious
What a load of bunk! Jesus manifested nothing and concluded life with death like every mortal.
What died in your opinion?
With all that intense internal illumination of yours which proclaims the secular as the great beast and possesses no other tools than incessantly quoting others for support, what has your enlightenment actually achieved, what true insights and revelations has it brought except what you incessantly "borrow" from others. The very core of all your arguments lies in your unceasing crusade against secularism without realizing that at the root everything derives from it even theism.
I know how much secularism abhors the sacred. That being the case I quote sources that have helped my understanding. The dominant secular influence abhors the sacred. It is a danger to its supremacy.

I’ve noticed that secularism is not for anything other than equality in slavery. Secularism is always AGAINST something. That is why you think I am against secularism. Actually I am FOR a societal metaxu that furthers the human connection with higher consciousness. Against vs For. The goal of equality in slavery vs furthering the natural impulse for the individual to become the cosmic man. Which mindset will eventually dominate?
The sacred is born and nourished in and by the secular. Nothing manifests itself as immediately sacred to begin with. The sacred must be derived from the root.

As to what mindset will eventually dominate; hopefully not yours for that would be a thorough corruption of both secular and sacred as the latter has no reason to exist without the former...that what you call THE GREAT BEAST!

"Cosmic man", I can't get over how stupid and vulgar this phrase sounds. Even if we understood every detail of the universe - which is never going to happen - there is no way to explain what that actually means without employing a massive overdose of absurdity for its justification. As they say when expectations cease to be congruent with reality, IN YOUR DREAMS! In dreams, anything is possible. Live there for too long and you become psychotic.

What's also psychotic is continuing a debate well aware the response will only be another version of the the previous one...and the one before that, etc.! A dead end mentality is opposite to a cosmic one. Even an abject secularist should recognize a sinkhole when he sees one though that's obviously not the case on this site. So hasta la vista; watching a soap opera is more exciting.

I also noticed you didn't answer this question:

...rebirth and resurrection are NOT the same; there's a fundamental distinction which has again eluded you. Is your enlightenment enlightened enough to know what it is?

Dubious
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dubious » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:58 am

Dubious wrote:What a load of bunk! Jesus manifested nothing and concluded life with death like every mortal.
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:51 am
What died in your opinion?
All of him! fated like everything else that ever lived to be once again what it was before it became...NOTHING!

We don't call ourselves MORTAL for no reason.

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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:24 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm

I think this is the essential difference in our perspectives. I see the expression “I Am” as used in the Bible as referring to the unification of unity and diversity. Where I is unity Am contains all of its devolutionary potentials. I may be wrong but you seem to be saying that “AM’ is an imaginary creation since we are all ONE.
The difference in my perspective is that I see the ''I'' as the ineffable IS-NESS
And the ''AM'' as the consciousness aka the unknown known....all of which is not imagined, it's real.
And it is what comes after the I AM ....that is imagined....for example I am Fred or I am Betty is imagination.

Humans have their own unique way of describing the nondual nature of reality...no one is wrong in how they choose to translate it.


Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm
Are lawful fractions real for you? ONE can be divided into two halves and four quarters etc. Granted, without ONE, fractions do not exist. But can ONE exist without fractions? I AM for me is just a necessary unification between no-thing and nothing with everything in-between.
I agree.

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm
The trouble as I see it is that we are not “I AM”. The human condition has made us “we are”. We lack inner unity. In reality we are a plurality. Man’s name is legion. So how much in this plurality is searching for God and how much is searching for self justification? The objective human struggle is always between our higher and lower natures. It isn’t a matter of self love but of the love of self or the potential for human being described as “I AM.” We are the “wretched man” with the being potential for inner unity or a “Son of God.” For that a certain quality of help is needed.
Kind of what I was saying in a round about way.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:32 am

Dubious wrote:

We don't call ourselves MORTAL for no reason.
IM-mortal.

Nothing was born, nothing can die.

Non-Dual.

Dubious wrote:

what it was before it became...NOTHINGwhat it was before it became...NOTHING
What comes, goes..what goes, comes.

In that which does not come or go ...aka NOT-A-THING... aka EVERYTHING.

Jesus Christ is just a metaphor for eternal consciousness...an appearance of the infinite unborn I

While there is identification with born I ..the unborn I goes un-noticed....and it is only when the born I dies,(the mind, idea) will the unborn I be revealed for the very first time....that is who you are.

Not literal die, because nothing was born, only the mind is born aka imagination.

.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:57 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:24 am

The difference in my perspective is that I see the ''I'' as the ineffable IS-NESS
And the ''AM'' as the consciousness aka the unknown known....all of which is not imagined, it's real.
And it is what comes after the I AM ....that is imagined....for example I am Fred or I am Betty is imagination.

1:...I = Pure Awareness.

2:...AM ..aka Consciousness = On contact.. become aware you are aware via sensation.


3:...I am Fred or I am Betty ..to superimpose an identity upon what you are already without identity...via the (Mind) aka (imagination)


I AM the imagination of myself

Dubious
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dubious » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 am

Dubious wrote:
We don't call ourselves MORTAL for no reason.
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:32 am
Nothing was born, nothing can die.
Why didn't I think of that! It's so obvious! If nothing is born then nothing can die!

Dubious wrote:
...what it was before it became...NOTHING...
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:32 am
What comes, goes..what goes, comes.
If nothing was born and nothing can die then what is WHAT coming from and what is WHAT going to?...or does that depend on what's coming and what's going because I can't tell which is which or whether this means going in opposite directions at the same time or what WHAT applies to which WHICH!
Last edited by Dubious on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:29 am

Dubious wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 am


If nothing was born and nothing can die then what is WHAT coming from
An idea.
Dubious wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 am
and what is WHAT going to?...
An idea.

Dubious wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 am
or does that depend on what's coming and what's going because I can't tell which is which or what what applies to which which!
Drop the idea and all will become crystal clear clarity.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Prostitution and Eternal Values

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:30 am

Dubious wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 am

Why didn't I think of that! It's so obvious! If nothing is born then nothing can die!

Because it's the thinking that blocks the realisation.

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