The Endless Duel of Dualism

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Troll
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Troll »

If “growth” is either order or chaos, one has still to contend with the bifurcation in the conception of chaos. Since, as you will remember, the ancient meaning is an unrelieved darkness or infinite abyss, whereas the modern is more akin to the ancient sense of anarchy; frenzied confusion.

So the median point, allows for both extremes and neither, at the same time in different respects.

Did you ever have occasion to review Heidegger’s hermeneutical phenomenological study of boredom in this connection? I refer to this region as the Element. Here, the “extremes” that come out, are (1) being inside boredom, in the sense that the watched pot never boils, except, Heidegger gives the example of time flying at a party that is wholly a 'waste' of that time, and (2) being outside it he describes one awaiting a train. The Element is brought out through the example of a 19th century Sunday, when everything in a town is shut.


Now, as to this bunk “spelling” (or, usage or conflation of different words) controversy, at least one should admit that the notion of being “unstrung”, which is how Homer describes death, is rather a loosening as a losing. Ergo, this loosening is quite near to the issue of the obliteration of identity. Now, I’m not saying the Spelling Police should hurry up and die, naturally they do serve a necessary and helpful function at times.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Just another tossbucket pseud who's incapable of admitting when he's in the wrong. ↑↑↑
Troll
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Troll »

Your asinine posts show an inability to grow, against the spirit of the thread. Jump over three streams and drop dead in an ocean's deepest bowels where there is no Growth!
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

OOh. I'm traumatised. I will need 'therapy' after that one. ↑
Troll
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Troll »

Find it another thread, I recommend Christopher Bollas!
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Greta
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Greta »

Troll wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:41 am If “growth” is either order or chaos, one has still to contend with the bifurcation in the conception of chaos. Since, as you will remember, the ancient meaning is an unrelieved darkness or infinite abyss, whereas the modern is more akin to the ancient sense of anarchy; frenzied confusion.
Growth involves both order and chaos. Order without chaos is static and unalive and, in a sense, so is chaos without order.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Greta wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:30 am
Troll wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:41 am If “growth” is either order or chaos, one has still to contend with the bifurcation in the conception of chaos. Since, as you will remember, the ancient meaning is an unrelieved darkness or infinite abyss, whereas the modern is more akin to the ancient sense of anarchy; frenzied confusion.
Growth involves both order and chaos. Order without chaos is static and unalive and, in a sense, so is chaos without order.
Order that requires chaos is not order considering chaos is an absence of order. Chaos is merely the limit of order, with order existing as a perpetual act of "fruition" through itself as itself if viewed as 1 dimensionally. Order may allow chaos, as order itself is summated as boundaries with the boundaries manifesting the order by separating the aforementioned order from chaos by perpetually manifesting itself.

But chaos cannot allow order considering it is not only an absence of boundaries but is fundamentally an observation of gradation, or nothingness relative to being.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Troll wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:41 am If “growth” is either order or chaos, one has still to contend with the bifurcation in the conception of chaos. Since, as you will remember, the ancient meaning is an unrelieved darkness or infinite abyss, whereas the modern is more akin to the ancient sense of anarchy; frenzied confusion.

So the median point, allows for both extremes and neither, at the same time in different respects.

Did you ever have occasion to review Heidegger’s hermeneutical phenomenological study of boredom in this connection? I refer to this region as the Element. Here, the “extremes” that come out, are (1) being inside boredom, in the sense that the watched pot never boils, except, Heidegger gives the example of time flying at a party that is wholly a 'waste' of that time, and (2) being outside it he describes one awaiting a train. The Element is brought out through the example of a 19th century Sunday, when everything in a town is shut.

No, I will look it up sometime through.


Now, as to this bunk “spelling” (or, usage or conflation of different words) controversy, at least one should admit that the notion of being “unstrung”, which is how Homer describes death, is rather a loosening as a losing. Ergo, this loosening is quite near to the issue of the obliteration of identity. Now, I’m not saying the Spelling Police should hurry up and die, naturally they do serve a necessary and helpful function at times.
Troll
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Troll »

I would encourage you to lacerate your generalities with concrete examples.

Also, I don't see any answer to the question of the bifurcation of the term chaos. For example, the Greeks speak of Lethe, which is oblivion, and Aristotle speaks of the "ancients" who were fearful that being might "go away". These "ancients" lived prior to the conception of phusis or nature, as what "comes forth of itself", and long prior to Aristole's conception of ousia, as substance and the four causes and leading to the thinking of the actus purus. All this, reminds of the Greek sense of kaos, a bottomless gulf or infinite darkness, which the early philosophers understood as primordial matter. Ergo, this talk of duality is inadequate to Historial thought. Since primordial matter is neither chaotic nor ordered in the later sense of a 'self-originating coming forth' or what is growing and thereby grows.
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Greta
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Greta »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:27 pm
Greta wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:30 am
Troll wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:41 am If “growth” is either order or chaos, one has still to contend with the bifurcation in the conception of chaos. Since, as you will remember, the ancient meaning is an unrelieved darkness or infinite abyss, whereas the modern is more akin to the ancient sense of anarchy; frenzied confusion.
Growth involves both order and chaos. Order without chaos is static and unalive and, in a sense, so is chaos without order.
Order that requires chaos is not order considering chaos is an absence of order.
What of grey areas between absolutes? Do you see a difference between "order" and " complete order", or between "chaos" and "complete chaos". Do you believe that things can appear in reality as matters of degree? If the order of your body is affected by chaos does that mean you are immediately blown into component atoms or does that mean you are a little ill. Is your body's system exactly as chaotic when you have a common cold as if you have heart disease?

No, reality comes in degrees unless you are a digital switch.
Troll
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Troll »

This is a good avenue of invasion. What does it mean to speak of the order of the body? That one is healthy? Then, order has its origin and locus in one's sense of health. If one is missing an arm, is that less orderly? The ordered body is then orderly, and ordering, by the measure of human sensibility? Of course, if the kaos comes in, one can see the pulling out of the tablecloth of order and the issuance of primordial matter which is not ordered or unordered.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Endless Duel of Dualism

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Greta wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:55 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:27 pm
Greta wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:30 am
Growth involves both order and chaos. Order without chaos is static and unalive and, in a sense, so is chaos without order.
Order that requires chaos is not order considering chaos is an absence of order.
What of grey areas between absolutes?

The answer is in the question: the "grey" exists between absolutes, which must exist for the grey to exist. In these respects what we can observe is a dualism between absolutes that results in grey as a perceivably neutral median. As a neutral median the grey may provide foundations for both extremes as being neither, from which each extreme arises. In a second respect the merging of the extremes as "both/and" observes this neutrality as a limit of both.

In simpler terms, the grey is neutral because:

1) It provides the "possibility" of both extremes arising from it, hence it is "no-limit" through possibility.
2) It provides the "limit" of both extremes as meeting synthesizing the "grey", hence is acts as a "limit", with the limit not only synthesizing the boundaries between both extremes but the boundary in itself being a dimension of its own as "grey". Grey can be observed as the boundary of both extremes.

In these respects dualism results in a triad, founded under a third term of "neutrality", from which dimensions as both "limit" and "no-limit" appear to synthesize.


Do you see a difference between "order" and " complete order", or between "chaos" and "complete chaos". Do you believe that things can appear in reality as matters of degree?
If we look at degrees, what we observe is a gradation as a form of negation in which a reality is not complete but rather is lacking. In these respects, what is lacking inherently is a fraction of itself. Their is the "actual" existence of the phenomena and the "potential" existence which is not actualized except through movement. This movement exists because of the dualism between the actual phenomena (as a set of movements, or unit-particulate relating) and what is potential (that is unactualized movement, yet a space for which actual movement may occur or move into).

From this, it may be observed, degrees are merely gradation through the relation of parts/fractals/unit-particulate (however you choose to name it). Degrees are fundamentally observations of relation, hence movement, and in these respects are conducive to a form of divergence and convergence as "individuation" in which complete "unity" exists as a fractal through the "unit". This movement, as rooted in a separation through individuation, is conducive to a limit of the aforemention "absolutes" in the respects it is an approximation of it.



If the order of your body is affected by chaos does that mean you are immediately blown into component atoms or does that mean you are a little ill.
If we are completely blown into component atoms, these atoms by default supercede disorder as order...hence the atom as an atom.

If we are a little ill, the illness only points to a body which lack a certain part of his/her health, this lack of one part reverberates through the other parts, much like a chain reaction. For example if I have a flu, not only is my stomach affected but my bones ache, my head becomes unclear, etc. Yet these parts, while further "separated" due to an absence of a part which gives them unity, still exist.

Struggle, observes "being" in one respect and "non-being" in another. In these respects it is a median between the two.



Is your body's system exactly as chaotic when you have a common cold as if you have heart disease?

No, reality comes in degrees unless you are a digital switch.
But I either have a cold or do not have a cold. That is a dualism. Now I may have symptoms that may lead to a cold (being tired) or result from a prior cold however these symptoms are neutral in themselves (relative to the cold) considering they may be caused by, or cause, a separate "deficiency" altogether, for example working to hard.

The same applies to heart disease, I either have it or do not, because heart disease is a group of relating symptoms that converge into one specific area, i.e the heart. Now I may have symptoms of heart disease, but considering these symptoms need further symptoms to relate to it (not just-chest pains, or absence of breath, but also certain protein markers in the blood, blood pressure problems, etc.) does not mean I have it.

A symptom is often a divergence into various degrees of lack of health, however the relation of symptoms in turn equates to a specific health deficiency.

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