The Struggle for the Soul of America

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Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

SoB, Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses." Simone Weil countered with "revolution is the opiate of the masses." She is right and you have no idea why.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:41 am SoB, Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses." Simone Weil countered with "revolution is the opiate of the masses." She is right and you have no idea why.
Neither one is right, and you have no idea why. Yet I'll clue you in.

In fact, selfishness is the opiate of the masses. And it shall be that way until we evolve to the point that we can see the biggest picture of them all. What we actually are, the universal perspective!
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

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SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:21 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:41 am SoB, Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses." Simone Weil countered with "revolution is the opiate of the masses." She is right and you have no idea why.
Neither one is right, and you have no idea why. Yet I'll clue you in.

In fact, selfishness is the opiate of the masses. And it shall be that way until we evolve to the point that we can see the biggest picture of them all. What we actually are, the universal perspective!
What is the purpose of our universe? You can't refer to a universal perspective without first knowing the purpose of our universe and discovering how we can know and understand it to discover our purpose within it..
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:59 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:21 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:41 am SoB, Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses." Simone Weil countered with "revolution is the opiate of the masses." She is right and you have no idea why.
Neither one is right, and you have no idea why. Yet I'll clue you in.

In fact, selfishness is the opiate of the masses. And it shall be that way until we evolve to the point that we can see the biggest picture of them all. What we actually are, the universal perspective!
What is the purpose of our universe? You can't refer to a universal perspective without first knowing the purpose of our universe and discovering how we can know and understand it to discover our purpose within it..
Purpose has nothing to do with what I said, but it figures that you'd think so, like the religion you follow.

The universal perspective is unbiased, it just mirrors what we are, and as we gather it all together, finding the contradictions, the lies, the denial, the confusion, the misplaced agendas, the fears, the limitations, the ignorance, etc, etc, etc, it all becomes clear. The biggest picture of them all!
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:32 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:59 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:21 am
Neither one is right, and you have no idea why. Yet I'll clue you in.

In fact, selfishness is the opiate of the masses. And it shall be that way until we evolve to the point that we can see the biggest picture of them all. What we actually are, the universal perspective!
What is the purpose of our universe? You can't refer to a universal perspective without first knowing the purpose of our universe and discovering how we can know and understand it to discover our purpose within it..
Purpose has nothing to do with what I said, but it figures that you'd think so, like the religion you follow.

The universal perspective is unbiased, it just mirrors what we are, and as we gather it all together, finding the contradictions, the lies, the denial, the confusion, the misplaced agendas, the fears, the limitations, the ignorance, etc, etc, etc, it all becomes clear. The biggest picture of them all!
Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is. How IYO can humanity change what we are rather than arguing over what we should do?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:58 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:32 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:59 pm

What is the purpose of our universe? You can't refer to a universal perspective without first knowing the purpose of our universe and discovering how we can know and understand it to discover our purpose within it..
Purpose has nothing to do with what I said, but it figures that you'd think so, like the religion you follow.

The universal perspective is unbiased, it just mirrors what we are, and as we gather it all together, finding the contradictions, the lies, the denial, the confusion, the misplaced agendas, the fears, the limitations, the ignorance, etc, etc, etc, it all becomes clear. The biggest picture of them all!
Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is. How IYO can humanity change what we are rather than arguing over what we should do?
If you truly believe your statements as to what humankind is, you're one of the lazy sick ones, that are responsible for all that's wrong.

But the answer to your question, is education of course.

Becasue...

"...Life's what you make it."
-Life's what you make it-
-Written and performed by Talk, Talk-


"...and in the end the love you take,
is equal to the love you made"
-The End-
-Written and performed by The Beatles-

Of course it can be true, yet it all depends upon you!

By the way, this recent message of yours is rich, because in the beginning of this thread you spoke of the Declaration of Independence, and it was made by those that obviously believed that 'life is what you make it.'

It's just time for an updated version, not it's exclusion! In case you haven't noticed, it's no longer 1776.

Or would you rather go back even further and ride around on your horse beating people to death with a club like the Huns, as that's how they made it? It's all they could do, you've asserted, yet here we are today! Relatively what were they missing? Intelligence? How about you?
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

SOB

Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is. How IYO can humanity change what we are rather than arguing over what we should do?


If you truly believe your statements as to what humankind is, you're one of the lazy sick ones, that are responsible for all that's wrong.

But the answer to your question, is education of course.
Again, you are fixated on what to do and rely on indoctrination to teach what to do. What you don't know is that society is a living organism. What it does like any other beast is determined by natural and cosmic influences. That is why the cycles of society described in Ecclesiastes 3 including war and peace remain the same. Individuals can change what they are with help from above but a society cannot. It just adapts to natural cycles

The unique value of America is that it was intended to encourage an individual to become what they are rather than just being an indoctrinated atom of society. Why it apparently has failed is another question
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:26 am SOB

Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is. How IYO can humanity change what we are rather than arguing over what we should do?


If you truly believe your statements as to what humankind is, you're one of the lazy sick ones, that are responsible for all that's wrong.

But the answer to your question, is education of course.
Again, you are fixated on what to do and rely on indoctrination to teach what to do.
Not at all, I look at history and see the way it has been, they way it currently is, but just can't wait for the next logical step. I was born far too soon!


What you don't know is that society is a living organism.
No it's not, it's a bunch of brain dead users that believe in the lie, so they can lie, in a monkey see monkey do kind of free for all. Not one legitimately sound or good thing that they're capable of considering, let alone implementing. They're mesmerized by the glittering prize, eyes wide, sweat beeding up on their brows, the look of hysteria. And all because they've allowed idiots to set they current machine in motion, without their question, seemingly incapable of original thought. Not a living organism, rather a dying bunch of clones, simply mimics!

What it does like any other beast is determined by natural and cosmic influences.
No way, it's all about their fear of death, and living in just a snippet of the long truth of our folly, not being capable of seeing the whole of it all, and how their being lead by the ring in their nose.

That is why the cycles of society described in Ecclesiastes 3 including war and peace remain the same.
Fuck Ecclesiastes 3! It's easy to see current events and project. And as I've said, we're capable of wiping your black book into the oblivion of absurdity, it's been happening all along, as the true scholars of said black book, continually recant, fall back, and drop it altogether, as they see the truth of science unfold! There's a reason the 1800's saw the end of religious control. TIME! As the truth shall always be eventually uncovered.


Individuals can change what they are with help from above but a society cannot.
Society is nothing more than millions of individuals, and there is no above as your reference obviously points. The only above is looking at us all equally, as if an ant farm, from a vantage point that makes all clear, scientifically. Seeing the fear that lives in all humankind, psychology!

It just adapts to natural cycles
It's a very big machine, TODAY, for sure, which may cause it to seem unstoppable. But all it takes is the knowledge of the truth of us all, told to us all, to be seen clearly and accepted by all! And revisited time and time again to wear down the kings and queens of those always in denial due to their fears. The truth is all there is and is all that matters! Period!


The unique value of America is that it was intended to encourage an individual to become what they are rather than just being an indoctrinated atom of society.
The problem is that hardly anyone is educated enough to actually understand what they are. Education should be free for all, and the people that make that so, shall be the most unbeatable force of truth the earthlings has ever had to offer. As long as they're honest with themselves!


Why it apparently has failed is another question
I just told you why it's failed! Fear, Denial, Falsehoods! The education of how they play!
Your problem is like most, you've given up. You see the way things currently are and you throw in the towel as you say, "that's the way it is." But your life has been far too short to see the way it was, the way it's changed. The FACT is that it was MADE the way that it is. And TOGETHER we can ALL MAKE it the way we WANT it, and it would be UNIFIED, of that there is no doubt, in my mind.
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

SoB

The unique value of America is that it was intended to encourage an individual to become what they are rather than just being an indoctrinated atom of society.


The problem is that hardly anyone is educated enough to actually understand what they are. Education should be free for all, and the people that make that so, shall be the most unbeatable force of truth the earthlings has ever had to offer. As long as they're honest with themselves!

Why it apparently has failed is another question

I just told you why it's failed! Fear, Denial, Falsehoods! The education of how they play!
Your problem is like most, you've given up. You see the way things currently are and you throw in the towel as you say, "that's the way it is." But your life has been far too short to see the way it was, the way it's changed. The FACT is that it was MADE the way that it is. And TOGETHER we can ALL MAKE it the way we WANT it, and it would be UNIFIED, of that there is no doubt, in my mind.

It isn't that I've given up but willing to investigate why the human condition is as it is. Are you like all within the Great Beast a victim of "wretched contentment " as described by Nietzsche. "I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?" If you haven't made any attempt to overcome wretrched contentment, you cannot understand the problem. Are you willing to discuss the human condition as Nietzsche described it?
Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth...
What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
What about the human condition assures it leads to wretched contentment? What does it mean to sin against the earth? Regardles of education, the same ideas were spoken of forever yet the world is in chaos. If we live in fear, what are you afraid of that denies the overman?


Towards the Ubermensch
"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...
Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth.Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.
Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth...
What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'

"Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...

"I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

from Nietzsche's Thus spoke Zarathustra, p.3,4,5, Walter Kaufmann transl.
commonsense
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by commonsense »

It seems to me that socialism is the formation of tribes while freedom allows one to leave the tribes.

The two are at odds and shouldn’t have to exist in the same territory. Should and should not aside, what is existing is the presence of both at the same time and place.

The extremes of each cannot peacefully coexist, since each extreme proselytizes avidly to demand that everyone live under its ideals only.

The more one side’s moderates prod the other’s, the more the latter dig in, moving ever closer to their own extreme. Trying to convince the other side to cross over is useless.

What is to be done amidst this existing juxtaposition? I propose that the dissident individualists be permitted to divorce themselves from the tribe of collective sheep.

Those individuals who want to be free will pay no taxes, vote in no elections, and refrain from using public roads, public utilities, public police and fire protection, public education, and all public services and programs.

Am I being serious? Yes, actually.

Is this feasible? Probably not, or it would have been implemented already.
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

commonsense wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:51 pm It seems to me that socialism is the formation of tribes while freedom allows one to leave the tribes.

The two are at odds and shouldn’t have to exist in the same territory. Should and should not aside, what is existing is the presence of both at the same time and place.

The extremes of each cannot peacefully coexist, since each extreme proselytizes avidly to demand that everyone live under its ideals only.

The more one side’s moderates prod the other’s, the more the latter dig in, moving ever closer to their own extreme. Trying to convince the other side to cross over is useless.

What is to be done amidst this existing juxtaposition? I propose that the dissident individualists be permitted to divorce themselves from the tribe of collective sheep.

Those individuals who want to be free will pay no taxes, vote in no elections, and refrain from using public roads, public utilities, public police and fire protection, public education, and all public services and programs.

Am I being serious? Yes, actually.

Is this feasible? Probably not, or it would have been implemented already.
What does it mean to be "in the world and not of it?" A person can be an important part of the tribe, be responsible and pay his bills. However an individual is not defined by the world. He doesn't have to hide from it and become a hermit. However his heart is attracted to a higher reality the world rejects.

Normally our conditioned personality controls our life. However a free man can create their own personality to suit their aims. He can impress kings nd queens as well as the common man. He is a free man, free of inhibitions and fears and has become able "to be."
commonsense
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by commonsense »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:39 pm
What does it mean to be "in the world and not of it?" A person can be an important part of the tribe, be responsible and pay his bills. However an individual is not defined by the world. He doesn't have to hide from it and become a hermit. However his heart is attracted to a higher reality the world rejects.

Normally our conditioned personality controls our life. However a free man can create their own personality to suit their aims. He can impress kings nd queens as well as the common man. He is a free man, free of inhibitions and fears and has become able "to be."
Interesting. So are you saying that a free person is [a resident] of the tribe but not [a member] of the tribe?
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

commonsense wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:20 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:39 pm
What does it mean to be "in the world and not of it?" A person can be an important part of the tribe, be responsible and pay his bills. However an individual is not defined by the world. He doesn't have to hide from it and become a hermit. However his heart is attracted to a higher reality the world rejects.

Normally our conditioned personality controls our life. However a free man can create their own personality to suit their aims. He can impress kings nd queens as well as the common man. He is a free man, free of inhibitions and fears and has become able "to be."
Interesting. So are you saying that a free person is [a resident] of the tribe but not [a member] of the tribe?
Yes. It is an old biblical question:

Mark 12:17
And Jesus answered and said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at Him.
It appears easy but in reality how many know or live by knowledge of the difference between what belongs to God and what belongs to Caesar?
Nick_A
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Nick_A »

The essence of the struggle: liberty vs restraint and slavery in the cause of equality
“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Progressive education has taught that restraint and slavery serve the greater good. After all, who needs freedom of thought? If the Great Beast decides that 2+2 is now 5, why argue with progress? In matters of equality, big brother knows best.
Belinda
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Re: The Struggle for the Soul of America

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:43 pm The essence of the struggle: liberty vs restraint and slavery in the cause of equality
“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Progressive education has taught that restraint and slavery serve the greater good. After all, who needs freedom of thought? If the Great Beast decides that 2+2 is now 5, why argue with progress? In matters of equality, big brother knows best.
There is permanent tension between equality and liberty.
I and my fellow students were progressively educated and I was certanly not lead to believe "restraint and slavery serve the greatest good". I studied education as an academic discipline and I can inform you progress in education at the time I studied it veered towards child -centred i.e. the opposite of restraint and slavery.
Intellectuals and well- intentioned others are right now struggling to protect education against restraints and slavery imposed by regimes and lying media.
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