Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:31 am

"Not 'to me'. It just is."

Nope, to 'you' and all the other 'no borders' types.

#

"Who else rants about their 'sovereignty' these days?"

Who else is seein' their autonomy eroded by dumbasses and monsters within and without?

#

"And what exactly do you mean anyway?"

By 'sovereignty'? Consult a dictionary.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re:

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:07 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:31 am


"And what exactly do you mean anyway?"

By 'sovereignty'? Consult a dictionary.
In what sense are you using with regard to the US? You could be referring to one of several situations.

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Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:31 am

C'mon, Veg, don't do that. You're not stupid, you're not ignorant. You know what I'm talkin' about. And: if you truly don't, then I've overestimated you and any explanation I could give would fall on *dumb ears.









*see what I did there? 'course you do, cuz you ain't a moron

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Re:

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:31 am
C'mon, Veg, don't do that. You're not stupid, you're not ignorant. You know what I'm talkin' about. And: if you truly don't, then I've overestimated you and any explanation I could give would fall on *dumb ears.









*see what I did there? 'course you do, cuz you ain't a moron
You are just being manipulative here--shame on you.

I truly don't. You never give a straight answer btw.

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 am

I must say that I've always been baffled by what Americans actually mean when they bleat on ad nauseum about their 'freedom' (as if theirs is the only country that has it). Most people are intelligent enough to know that 'freedom' has very little meaning unless it's measured on a scale of gradually increasing levels of personal freedom eg totatalitarian theocracy at the very bottom, with 'law-of-the-jungle anarchy i.e. complete absence of any form of Governmental laws, at the top (which paradoxically would allow for even less freedom than the one at the bottom). I now know that when Americans talk about their 'freedom', it means 'Freedom for the US to have sovereignty (supreme power) over the entire planet, with the rest of the planet having the 'freedom' to toe our line or suffer the consequences'. That clears that up.

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 am

If the US had absolute sovereignty all over the world, there would be no need for a wall.

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:19 am

No one ever means "all", for just about anything. Even trump wouldn't buy into that delusion. But I think any sort of person who's trying to make the case that a border wall would have a negligible effect on illegal immigration, should simply stop doing trying to make such an argument. I actually think the media is most guilty of doing this, which I was quickly reminded of when I tried to google the stats. When you just look at the raw numbers of how many illegal immigrants cross the border vs. overstayed visas and planes, it's too large not to have more of an impact, regardless of your position on immigration.

I personally don't think a wall is the most viable solution. While I'm not totally opposed to stricter border security, I'm more in favor of taking an economic route to thwarting immigration.

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:28 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 am
I now know that when Americans talk about their 'freedom', it means 'Freedom for the US to have sovereignty (supreme power) over the entire planet, with the rest of the planet having the 'freedom' to toe our line or suffer the consequences'. That clears that up.
We're literally in a thread talking about stopping the influx of illegal immigration to the united states...There are few things less 'sovereign' or globalist than that. It's exactly about not impacting the affairs of other countries.

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:56 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:28 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 am
I now know that when Americans talk about their 'freedom', it means 'Freedom for the US to have sovereignty (supreme power) over the entire planet, with the rest of the planet having the 'freedom' to toe our line or suffer the consequences'. That clears that up.
We're literally in a thread talking about stopping the influx of illegal immigration to the united states...There are few things less 'sovereign' or globalist than that. It's exactly about not impacting the affairs of other countries.
It was Henry who said the wall's chief purpose would be to 'assert sovereignty'. He didn't want to say what he meant by that so I filled in the gaps. :)

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Post by henry quirk » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:26 pm

I mean this: within the context of a constitutional republic (which the US is), sovereignty is power of a nation (specifically, the citizens of that nation) over itself (themselves), without outside interference (including folks who believe their wanting to be in the US obligates the US to let 'em in).

A wall can be effective simply as passive obstacle, but its true merit is as statement: The US is a nation, and as such, the US will determine who enters, not the UN, or another nation, or folks in another nation who want to come to the US. The citizens of the US (ideally) through the mouthpieces we hire (elect) determine who gets to cross the border.

Clear enough for you, Veg?

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Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:42 am

For informational purposes, I'm including the Great Wall of China:

http://www.history.com/topics/great-wall-of-china

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Re:

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:49 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:26 pm
I mean this: within the context of a constitutional republic (which the US is), sovereignty is power of a nation (specifically, the citizens of that nation) over itself (themselves), without outside interference (including folks who believe their wanting to be in the US obligates the US to let 'em in).

A wall can be effective simply as passive obstacle, but its true merit is as statement: The US is a nation, and as such, the US will determine who enters, not the UN, or another nation, or folks in another nation who want to come to the US. The citizens of the US (ideally) through the mouthpieces we hire (elect) determine who gets to cross the border.

Clear enough for you, Veg?
Every country has the right to decide who goes there. Using the word 'sovereignty' was a bit of an overkill don't you think? I understand Mexico is full of fleeing American criminals so it will probably be glad of a wall.

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Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:43 am

"Using the word 'sovereignty' was a bit of an overkill don't you think?"

By definition, it's the best word, the most appropriate, in context.

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