How can a woman ruin a man ?

For all things philosophical.

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duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:24 pm

Eodnhoj7

Thank you for your guess.

At the moment Angiolina lives with her family. She had many suitors before as Emilio finds out and he becomes jealous.

The action takes place in the beginning of the twentieth century or even at the end of the nineteenth.

Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:45 pm

A_Seagull wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:02 am
Celebritydiscodave2 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:22 pm
Perhaps by regularly beating him to a pulp? I had the police in my home today in order that three of us together could over power and evict my then lodger`s (male) so called girlfriend. She is incredibly strong for a girl, and that`s even before she mixed alcohol with cocaine, Yes, sure, I have got a no drugs and no alcohol rule, that did n`t stop her, nor smoking like a chimney in her room. Her boyfriend wanted out, he got out, he fell out the window in trying to escape her blows, ten stone of muscle, and I`ve just finished repairing his impact on a tiled roof. From here he fell ten feet to the ground. Neither can come back, both still remain good friends, she`s eighteen, and he is twenty two. Emotional entrapment closely followed on by a regular beating to a pulp, that might eventually ruin him. Guess what though, even now he wants her back, or otherwise thinks that he does.
TY for sharing your experiences in running a sanctuary. I find it quite shocking that an 18 year old girl is into sex, violence and drugs. (Sex is fine at that age, but not combined with the other two.) What future is there for her? Or for her boy friend? The modern world is incredibly complex and it takes a lot of learning and understanding before one is able to interact with it effectively. It would be all too easy to blame the parents for not looking after their children well, but maybe they have their own problems. And maybe the girl and her boyfriend will go on to have kids of their own who will also turn out to be troubled youths. It carries on from one generation to the next. And it is perhaps the lack of learning that is the issue most easily addressed. Kids need to learn from others, rather than through their own personal experiences, that violence and drugs are not solutions to any personal problem. I wish them well.
They have left now, her boyfriend through the roof in trying to escape her blows. He then runs from the police, and at the same time his girlfriend brakes out of her room screaming. I think for a time we were both suspects, and at the same time there appears to be a missing girl. Why he ran, crazy, I`m not sure, I just think that he goes out of his way in avoiding any responsibility for his actions. He has sex without a condom, and the last two girls are abandoned with his child. He`s a stud, that bit is not his fault, that`s their doing, and it virtually always goes to the guy`s head. As for her, she virtually smashed my £3000 corridor, the corridor to their room, caused him to fall to what might have been his death, and was both smoking and taking drugs in her room. I blame the relationship, the fact she was in one, and whilst they cannot live here they still remain as friends of mine.

It`s just possible that he supplied the cocaine, and it is also just possible that he had joined her in the smoking. I do n`t, on balance, believe this to be the case however. Had he not of constantly spoken of other girls that he fancied I think she`d of been fine, he did though, and it had to finish up with her being arrested, handcuffed, a night in a cell. We`d had to over power her on the stairs. I was then supposed to give evidence such that the police could prosecute her independently of the victim, so without his agreement. I declined, she needs support. She can visit as a friend and for support at any time, and I`ll have a horse here soon that she`s expressed an interest in riding. Outside of a relationship, and despite her underlying violent nature, I absolutely trust her still, but that really does mean no relationships. Her mother has since thanked me for how I handled it. Beyond those closest to her, so her own mother, and relationships generally, she is a truly lovely fun loving girl, the best of them. I miss her.

duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:29 am

Things develop:

Angiolina can only agree to physical love if she is safe (= married to another man).
So she announces that she is engaged to be married.
Emilio is reluctant at first but finally he accepts if this is a condition for having his nice love affair.

A few days later she says that her fiance cannot marry her now but only in a year because of his partner in business who wants him to marry his own daughter. The fiance does want to live with Angiolina like with a wife though (because he is so in love) so he is going to sign a marriage contract with her at a notary. That way Angiolina will have a security of getting married and she can have a love affair with Emilio too.

I have a feeling that Angiolina is making this fiance up but why does she need it I still don´t know.

A experienced friend of Emilio, a scupturor, meets with Emilio and Angiolina and one of his own women models and he will help Emilio as a friend, if Emilio is not mistaken.

duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:50 am

Another important thing that people in the UK might be familiar with:

Emilio is from a former wealthy family, now a small employee, member of some sort of middle class.
Angiolina is a "commoner".

When Emilio, in jest, asks Angiolina if she would marry him and live at the top of a mountain in the Alps, like a German astronomer he had heard of, Angiolina hesitates.

She HESITATES, instead of jumping at the offer and being overwhelmed with joy that a "sir" offers marriage to her, a simple girl.

Emilio is offended by her hesitation.

Angiolina realizes quickly that this proposal is theoretical only, no chance of being realized, and she pretends to accept it - theoretically - with great enthusiasm. Just to cheer him up and to restore harmony.

What is she really up to ?
I am dying to find out.

Are there still any class issues in the UK today ? There are some in the books with Adrian Mole.

Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:46 pm

I do n`t associate class with money, for any nature of person can have money, I only associate class with values, character being one such value. Many people are so called working class only because they are honest hard workers that fall into that group which prefer healthy physical work over growing old and fat doing little more than they were likely doing sitting behind a desk all day at school. There are likely a considerable number of such people over here, that want to feel some genuine satisfaction at the end of their day in the office.

She could stab him to death, how`s that? I almost had this done me as thanks for putting a girl`s washing on the line. She is a qualified social worker, but would you describe her as middle class?

duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:21 pm

Why should she want him dead ?

You seem to think that Italians are impulsive and passionate.
This is a stereotype.
They are cool and cunning as well. They care about style a lot and about beauty.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:29 pm

duszek wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:21 pm

You seem to think that Italians are impulsive and passionate.
This is a stereotype.
They are cool and cunning as well. They care about style a lot and about beauty.
Oh dear. The ''Progressive'' thought police will be down on you like a ton of bricks. Or will they?? :?

Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:29 am

Is this philosophy though, is it sentiment which is total/all embracing. To begin with, I`m not even persuaded that we all agree exactly the same definition for this term "ruin", and we do require absolute definitions in philosophy. My definition: To ruin a person is to cause them, he or she, as much harm necessary on whatever level/levels that they can never function adequately again on any single level. As this is philosophy, not psychology, "women" must at least broadly speaking denote every example of one/all women, and "a man" must at least broadly speaking denote every example of a man. To full beneath this requirement is to be engaged in either psychology, or social psychology.

duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:59 am

Psychology used to be part of philosophy.

A psychologist needs to know about human nature.

Novelists are supposed to be psychologists and experts on human nature.

Novels are lessons in psychology for laymen.

The problem with Emilio is that he does not live, he is too cautious, he does not like to take any risks. Some people like him can be among us today.
The story of Emilio makes us think about this aspect of human nature: staying on the safe side and trying to get some pleasure from life at the same time.

The ruin of Emilio is something that I suppose that might occur later in the novel, possibly at the end. I am only on page 70, out of 250. I will let you know what happens and why.

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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

The impending danger is perhaps not of losing money but of losing faith in people.

Angiolina starts going out secretely with other men, an umbrella-maker for instance.

Emilio is suffering from this betrayal and intends to dump her, even before he got a chance to consummate the ralationship.

gaffo
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:04 am

yes

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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by -1- » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:16 am

duszek wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm
The impending danger is perhaps not of losing money but of losing faith in people.

Angiolina starts going out secretely with other men, an umbrella-maker for instance.

Emilio is suffering from this betrayal and intends to dump her, even before he got a chance to consummate the ralationship.
What? They never fucked? That's fucked.

What does Emilio mean by "having fun with her and never marrying her"? If there is no sex, he is getting whipped, badly, big time.

I would never put up with such nonsense.

I was going to say something about the book, having stumbled into this thread for the first time now, but Emilio is not worth the effort. Emilio is the one who lives with his sister and works for the insce co, right?

So, whatta fucking loser. I hate guys like that, who are too timid or impotent or stupid to screw a good-looking girl. What's his goddamned point in LIFE, anyway? To waste it by not taking advantage what nature hands him on a silver platter?

What a goof.

I am sorry, you should have said this in the first paragraph. Then I wouldn't have wasted so much thought in creating a scenario how she'd ruin him.

Now the wind is gone out of my sail. He is not worth the effort, he can go screw himself, I don't care about him. Go to hell, Emilio, don't bother me any more.

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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by -1- » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:27 am

duszek wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:24 pm
Eodnhoj7

Thank you for your guess.

At the moment Angiolina lives with her family. She had many suitors before as Emilio finds out and he becomes jealous.

The action takes place in the beginning of the twentieth century or even at the end of the nineteenth.
Dear Duszek, you can't leave such important details about the plot appear so late in the narrative of the thread.

This book review has been a disaster. Compare your review with this following, imaginary review; they are similar in presentation value:

"A man falls in love with a woman, but she commits suicide and he goes insane. Do you think he is going to recover from his insanity, and how?"

Twenty posts later:

"Oh, his father was murdered by his own brother, who married the guy's mother."

Wouldn't that have to do anything with his insanity? The readers of the actual book are told this on the first page, but you introduce it many posts later.

"Oh, and the guy is a prince, living in Denmark, in the middle ages", you say after forty posts.

This, my friend, is not a way to do book reviews. I am appalled.

duszek
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Re: How can a woman ruin a man ?

Post by duszek » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:41 am

It´s not a book review.

It´s a comment in process.
I share my expectations of what going to happen next and am ready to admit if I was wrong.

Compare it to real life:
you meet a new person, you speculate about him, later on you know more and reinterpret your initial impressions.

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