Sales is a skill, not a talent

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FlashDangerpants
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:34 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
"FFS you lazy moron," Another ad hominems.
That isn't an ad hominem. Seriously, it genuinely isn't. You shouldn't need my help to know this sort of thing.
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
Universal sales experience you say. Don't need it. I have more than enough. It's like saying you need to conduct an infinite number of experiments which shows your lack of statistical knowledge.
No it isn't. Your sample size is unrepresentative. You are display your own lack of statistical knowledge.
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
I recognize talent in chess and violin playing, but not in selling. Since anybody can do selling with the technique I've described, then there are no talented salespeople and that's a cold hard fact
That's logically incoherent. Chess and violin can be, and are, taught. Anybody can be decent at both things if they are taught, other than people who we might say posses zero talent. There are nonetheless talented violinists who exist if you look for them in the right places. You haven't looked in all the places, so you cannot say there are no talented sales people. You haven't even attempted to teach sales to the utterly untalented. You haven't done anything to establish that you would know how to recognise talent if you encountered it.

Philosophy Explorer
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:34 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
"FFS you lazy moron," Another ad hominems.
That isn't an ad hominem. Seriously, it genuinely isn't. You shouldn't need my help to know this sort of thing.
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
Universal sales experience you say. Don't need it. I have more than enough. It's like saying you need to conduct an infinite number of experiments which shows your lack of statistical knowledge.
No it isn't. Your sample size is unrepresentative. You are display your own lack of statistical knowledge.
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm
I recognize talent in chess and violin playing, but not in selling. Since anybody can do selling with the technique I've described, then there are no talented salespeople and that's a cold hard fact
That's logically incoherent. Chess and violin can be, and are, taught. Anybody can be decent at both things if they are taught, other than people who we might say posses zero talent. There are nonetheless talented violinists who exist if you look for them in the right places. You haven't looked in all the places, so you cannot say there are no talented sales people. You haven't even attempted to teach sales to the utterly untalented. You haven't done anything to establish that you would know how to recognise talent if you encountered it.
Everybody I teach and follows instructions has improved substantially. Counting myself I'm 3 for 3. You would say that's a very small sample which I would agree with. So how big a sample would you like? 100? 1,000? Since others have approached me for lessons (keep in mind I'm busy at my telemarketing job and I'm in competition), there was very little opportunity for me to teach others.

I don't have to look for talented salespeople in "all the places." That's because all the reps have the ability to take advantage of the sales advice as I stated.

So how big a sample would you like?

PhilX 🇺🇸

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:42 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 pm
Everybody I teach and follows instructions has improved substantially. Counting myself I'm 3 for 3. You would say that's a very small sample which I would agree with. So how big a sample would you like? 100? 1,000? Since others have approached me for lessons (keep in mind I'm busy at my telemarketing job and I'm in competition), there was very little opportunity for me to teach others.

I don't have to look for talented salespeople in "all the places." That's because all the reps have the ability to take advantage of the sales advice as I stated.

So how big a sample would you like?
It is so unrewarding to discuss philosophy with you Phil. Do you still not understand that the problem with your argument is its basic structure? The thing you are claiming proves the other thing can never be used to prove such a thing. So your argument cannot work even if you made the sample size worth consideration somehow.

I mean sure, now that on top of all the other absurdities we discover you are the teacher of two people ever... that is pathetic. But I'm not surprised or even disappointed really. It's not that different to boasting you are the greatest sales guy in the world because you can sell adult diapers or something slightly faster than some other guy in your small office.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:48 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:42 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 pm
Everybody I teach and follows instructions has improved substantially. Counting myself I'm 3 for 3. You would say that's a very small sample which I would agree with. So how big a sample would you like? 100? 1,000? Since others have approached me for lessons (keep in mind I'm busy at my telemarketing job and I'm in competition), there was very little opportunity for me to teach others.

I don't have to look for talented salespeople in "all the places." That's because all the reps have the ability to take advantage of the sales advice as I stated.

So how big a sample would you like?
It is so unrewarding to discuss philosophy with you Phil. Do you still not understand that the problem with your argument is its basic structure? The thing you are claiming proves the other thing can never be used to prove such a thing. So your argument cannot work even if you made the sample size worth consideration somehow.

I mean sure, now that on top of all the other absurdities we discover you are the teacher of two people ever... that is pathetic. But I'm not surprised or even disappointed really. It's not that different to boasting you are the greatest sales guy in the world because you can sell adult diapers or something slightly faster than some other guy in your small office.
You're overlooking the fact that many others have been taught and benefitted from that sales advice (a review of the internet will verify that).

PhilX 🇺🇸

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:02 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:48 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:42 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 pm
Everybody I teach and follows instructions has improved substantially. Counting myself I'm 3 for 3. You would say that's a very small sample which I would agree with. So how big a sample would you like? 100? 1,000? Since others have approached me for lessons (keep in mind I'm busy at my telemarketing job and I'm in competition), there was very little opportunity for me to teach others.

I don't have to look for talented salespeople in "all the places." That's because all the reps have the ability to take advantage of the sales advice as I stated.

So how big a sample would you like?
It is so unrewarding to discuss philosophy with you Phil. Do you still not understand that the problem with your argument is its basic structure? The thing you are claiming proves the other thing can never be used to prove such a thing. So your argument cannot work even if you made the sample size worth consideration somehow.

I mean sure, now that on top of all the other absurdities we discover you are the teacher of two people ever... that is pathetic. But I'm not surprised or even disappointed really. It's not that different to boasting you are the greatest sales guy in the world because you can sell adult diapers or something slightly faster than some other guy in your small office.
You're overlooking the fact that many others have been taught and benefitted from that sales advice (a review of the internet will verify that).

PhilX 🇺🇸
I'm not overlooking the fact that others have been taught sales tricks, there's a large industry based around teaching this stuff, I know that.

But it's written right in the passage you quoted that the problem with your argument lies in its faulty structure, and that it wouldn't work even if the sample size were adequate.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:02 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:48 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:42 am

It is so unrewarding to discuss philosophy with you Phil. Do you still not understand that the problem with your argument is its basic structure? The thing you are claiming proves the other thing can never be used to prove such a thing. So your argument cannot work even if you made the sample size worth consideration somehow.

I mean sure, now that on top of all the other absurdities we discover you are the teacher of two people ever... that is pathetic. But I'm not surprised or even disappointed really. It's not that different to boasting you are the greatest sales guy in the world because you can sell adult diapers or something slightly faster than some other guy in your small office.
You're overlooking the fact that many others have been taught and benefitted from that sales advice (a review of the internet will verify that).

PhilX 🇺🇸
I'm not overlooking the fact that others have been taught sales tricks, there's a large industry based around teaching this stuff, I know that.

But it's written right in the passage you quoted that the problem with your argument lies in its faulty structure, and that it wouldn't work even if the sample size were adequate.
"Sales tricks" :lol: This goes to show you're prejudiced against sales people which I suspected all along.

There are no sales tricks in true selling. There is no faulty structure in the sales advice I'm offering. You simply have a mental block towards expanding your horizons.

I've successfully sold for over ten years straight (after a poor start). Since you have a block against exploration, what is to be gained with discussing this further with you?

PhilX 🇺🇸

FlashDangerpants
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:28 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 am
There are no sales tricks in true selling. There is no faulty structure in the sales advice I'm offering. You simply have a mental block towards expanding your horizons.
Are you suffering advanced brain disease? I tell you repeatedly that there is a structural problem with a philosophical argument you have cobbled together and you respond that there is no structural problem with a sales technique?

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:32 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:28 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 am
There are no sales tricks in true selling. There is no faulty structure in the sales advice I'm offering. You simply have a mental block towards expanding your horizons.
Are you suffering advanced brain disease? I tell you repeatedly that there is a structural problem with a philosophical argument you have cobbled together and you respond that there is no structural problem with a sales technique?
Because the sales technique is valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:35 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:32 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:28 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 am
There are no sales tricks in true selling. There is no faulty structure in the sales advice I'm offering. You simply have a mental block towards expanding your horizons.
Are you suffering advanced brain disease? I tell you repeatedly that there is a structural problem with a philosophical argument you have cobbled together and you respond that there is no structural problem with a sales technique?
Because the sales technique is valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I don't care about the sales technique. The structure of your argument is faulty. What is wrong with you?

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:41 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:35 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:32 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:28 am

Are you suffering advanced brain disease? I tell you repeatedly that there is a structural problem with a philosophical argument you have cobbled together and you respond that there is no structural problem with a sales technique?
Because the sales technique is valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I don't care about the sales technique. The structure of your argument is faulty. What is wrong with you?
The sales technique I brought up in my OP so what is wrong with you?

PhilX 🇺🇸

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Eodnhoj7
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:43 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:35 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:32 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:28 am

Are you suffering advanced brain disease? I tell you repeatedly that there is a structural problem with a philosophical argument you have cobbled together and you respond that there is no structural problem with a sales technique?
Because the sales technique is valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I don't care about the sales technique. The structure of your argument is faulty. What is wrong with you?
Technique is merely "means of perspective". We structure the world according to our perceptions.

I have done sales on and off, it is perception one learns through technique. That is where the "talent" argument comes in, a talent is merely a way of doing things and to argue that someone is talented is to argue that the person already manifests an inherent perception. Perception can be taught, through application of the will, and in these respects skill and talent are inseperable.

They are strictly extensions of a causal argument as to which came first? Sales or Talent? In these respects, I would argue it does not matter as they manifest themselves through inherent degrees of perception. Perception itself is a form of measurement, that gives structure, hence the "technique". Talent is just saying one already has that perception, but it does not nullify the inherent nature of what constitutes skill as both are merely degrees of perception.

"Talented" people often use "visualization" skills, as a means of perception, so how can skill be separated except as a causal order?

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:58 am

John Doe (if you don't mind me calling you that) said:

"...a talent is merely a way of doing things..."

If that were so, then that talent would manifest itself in exactly the same way every time and no evidence exists for that (an area I checked carefully in my early selling days).

OTOH the technique I applied the same way 100% of the time with gratuitous results (again I obviously claim no talent with that technique).

PhilX 🇺🇸

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:12 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:58 am
John Doe (if you don't mind me calling you that) said:

"...a talent is merely a way of doing things..."

If that were so, then that talent would manifest itself in exactly the same way every time and no evidence exists for that (an area I checked carefully in my early selling days).

No problem, for the record not arguing against you at all PhilX. Perspectives change over time with the acquisition of information (ie skill/technique). Technique can be observe as a stable perspective, which does not change. Talent can be observe as a "fluid" or "moving" degree of perspective. Hence the terms: "develop talent". I am simply stating that skill and talent coexist as extensions of perspective. Does skill equivocate to talent? No because skill is "solid" and talent is fluid, as you have already observed. And vice versa for talent equivocating to skill. I would argue that they are not "equal" but can be considered symmetrical duals much in the same manner "Static" and "Movement" are duals.

OTOH the technique I applied the same way 100% of the time with gratuitous results (again I obviously claim no talent with that technique).

PhilX 🇺🇸

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:41 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:41 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:35 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:32 am


Because the sales technique is valid.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I don't care about the sales technique. The structure of your argument is faulty. What is wrong with you?
The sales technique I brought up in my OP so what is wrong with you?

PhilX 🇺🇸
You don't feel that you have been trying to present an argument that because sales is teachable then it is not something for which talent can exist then? Because it is the structure of that argument that is in question. You haven't told us what your sales tricks are, so there's no scope for discussing the content of that at all unless you are going to give away your magical secrets.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Sales is a skill, not a talent

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:56 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:41 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:41 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:35 am

I don't care about the sales technique. The structure of your argument is faulty. What is wrong with you?
The sales technique I brought up in my OP so what is wrong with you?

PhilX 🇺🇸
You don't feel that you have been trying to present an argument that because sales is teachable then it is not something for which talent can exist then? Because it is the structure of that argument that is in question. You haven't told us what your sales tricks are, so there's no scope for discussing the content of that at all unless you are going to give away your magical secrets.
You haven't been paying attention. How could you miss my response where I said sales tricks with a question mark. That means I learned there are no sales tricks in true selling so I have no sales tricks for you. The prospects sell themselves.

PhilX 🇺🇸

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