The Ideal Ideology

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thedoc
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Re:

Post by thedoc » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:36 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:09 am
"...as they might make them evil too."

Doin' my best (to make him as 'evil' as me).
Keep up the good work. :lol:

You and I are in a similar situation except that my grandchildren are now in school and living with their parents. Till then they were with me most of the day and I couldn't teach them all the fun stuff cause I would have to deal with it, I couldn't just send them home right away.

thata23
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Re:

Post by thata23 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:40 am

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:26 pm
Oh, I have no doubt the communitarian utopia you crave is just 'round the corner...nuthin' I can do about that except refuse to help you make it happen.

You and yours would be wise to set up the 're-education centers' (concentration camps) for me and mine, now rather than later.

Round us up...'disappear' us...that'll make the segue smooth and painless (for you).
Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society and find it fun to be on top?

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Re: Re:

Post by -1- » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:38 am

thata23 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:40 am
Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society and find it fun to be on top?
That's what being a herd animal does to you. You strive to be on top, no matter who, where, and when you are placed on the globe and history.

Herd mentality is not just to follow the leader; it is also to strive to become the leader.

If you want to be an individual, and many of us do, including me and all of us, it's due to having hopes that being unherd, you get to be heard, and thus can rise up the ranks within the herd. At least that's what I heard.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:17 pm

"Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society..."

Sometimes.

#

"...and find it fun to be on top?"

Only thing I'm on top of is my life...I'm not rich and have no lent/stolen power/privilege to exercise.

Simply: I'm just another schmuck who rises and falls mostly cuz of what I do and don't do; a schmuck who takes a dim view of having 'utopia' (as you see it) foisted up on him.

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henry quirk
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"Keep up the good work."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:18 pm

Always, Doc, always.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:21 pm

"If you want to be an individual"

Too late...each of us already is one.

thata23
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Re: Re:

Post by thata23 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:39 am

thedoc wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:36 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:09 am
"...as they might make them evil too."

Doin' my best (to make him as 'evil' as me).
Keep up the good work. :lol:

You and I are in a similar situation except that my grandchildren are now in school and living with their parents. Till then they were with me most of the day and I couldn't teach them all the fun stuff cause I would have to deal with it, I couldn't just send them home right away.
What is the fun stuff you had to deal with?

thedoc
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Re: Re:

Post by thedoc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:09 am

thata23 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:39 am
thedoc wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:36 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:09 am
"...as they might make them evil too."

Doin' my best (to make him as 'evil' as me).
Keep up the good work. :lol:

You and I are in a similar situation except that my grandchildren are now in school and living with their parents. Till then they were with me most of the day and I couldn't teach them all the fun stuff cause I would have to deal with it, I couldn't just send them home right away.
What is the fun stuff you had to deal with?
I don't know cause I never got to teach them, I had to behave like a parent and teach them what any normal parent would, so I never had to deal with it. Some of the fun stuff is what I tried to tell my son's twins. They were born on April 15th which happened to be Easter Sunday that year and I tried to tell them that they should insist on having 2 birthday parties each year, one on April 15th and one on Easter Sunday, but they just smiled and laughed at me.

thedoc
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Re:

Post by thedoc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:22 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:17 pm
"Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society..."

Sometimes.
A few people are smarter than the multitude that favor a "one size fits all" society, it just doesn't work that way, people are individuals and need to be treated as such. If you want to live in a beehive, go for it but leave the rest of us alone, trying to force everyone to live as you see it, just doesn't work. (I'm answering thata23 in case you are wondering).

thata23
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Re: Re:

Post by thata23 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:28 am

thedoc wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:22 am
henry quirk wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:17 pm
"Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society..."

Sometimes.
A few people are smarter than the multitude that favor a "one size fits all" society, it just doesn't work that way, people are individuals and need to be treated as such. If you want to live in a beehive, go for it but leave the rest of us alone, trying to force everyone to live as you see it, just doesn't work. (I'm answering thata23 in case you are wondering).
Well, you and everyone else are living within the confines of a money based system, so you are in a beehive whether you realize it / like it or not. In a non-money based society, I'm just saying that people could do whatever they wanted to do, and that people who actually wanted to make progress would and I have confidence that people would follow them as they realize there is more to life than eating/sex/sleep.

thedoc
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Re: Re:

Post by thedoc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:49 am

thata23 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:28 am
thedoc wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:22 am
henry quirk wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:17 pm
"Do you feel as if you are smarter than people who support this type of society..."

Sometimes.
A few people are smarter than the multitude that favor a "one size fits all" society, it just doesn't work that way, people are individuals and need to be treated as such. If you want to live in a beehive, go for it but leave the rest of us alone, trying to force everyone to live as you see it, just doesn't work. (I'm answering thata23 in case you are wondering).
Well, you and everyone else are living within the confines of a money based system, so you are in a beehive whether you realize it / like it or not. In a non-money based society, I'm just saying that people could do whatever they wanted to do, and that people who actually wanted to make progress would and I have confidence that people would follow them as they realize there is more to life than eating/sex/sleep.
Money is just a tool to make living easier, if you think that you can live without money you are just as foolish as the others who believe they can live without money. People can do whatever they want using money as the means to do it.

What is there to life apart from eating, sex, sleep and learning?

BTW, Learning hasn't done me a lot of good, I've learned a lot of "useless information" according to my daughter.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:17 pm

"a money based system"

That's right, and thank god for it.

Money is a reservoir of value, a practical convenience, divorced from personality, philosophy, ideology, and prejudice.

If you have it (along with native talent and drive) you are considerably more 'free' than if you don't.

Folks of a particular persuasion crow about economic inequity, but such folks target wrong. The inequity is in native drive and talent, and there's nuthin' to be done about that. Embracing communitarianism and going cashless will still leave us with the stupid and weak who'll have to be cared for by the smart and strong. This idea that "people could do whatever they wanted to do" under your scheme really means the parasite population would grow as the producing population works that much harder to support them.

You're lookin' to usher in a 'utopia' that, like all strains of communitarianism, goes against the grain of human nature (positive self-interest), a utopia that rewards the worst expression of self-interest (parasitism) and punishes the capable.

As I say up-thread, no doubt one day your utopia (or sumthin' very much like it) will 'be', but only after folks like you have degraded human nature, obliterated it, ground it under heel into the pavement. That it is: you're gonna have to remake 'man' in your own image, but first, you have negate 'individual'.

As I also say up-thread: I won't participate in such shenanigans.

*Again: you and yours will have an easier time of it tomorrow if you deal with throwbacks like myself today.









*best free advice I can give any communitarian...would be wise not to dismiss it

thata23
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Re:

Post by thata23 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:22 am

henry quirk wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:17 pm
"a money based system"

That's right, and thank god for it.

Money is a reservoir of value, a practical convenience, divorced from personality, philosophy, ideology, and prejudice.

If you have it (along with native talent and drive) you are considerably more 'free' than if you don't.

Folks of a particular persuasion crow about economic inequity, but such folks target wrong. The inequity is in native drive and talent, and there's nuthin' to be done about that. Embracing communitarianism and going cashless will still leave us with the stupid and weak who'll have to be cared for by the smart and strong. This idea that "people could do whatever they wanted to do" under your scheme really means the parasite population would grow as the producing population works that much harder to support them.

You're lookin' to usher in a 'utopia' that, like all strains of communitarianism, goes against the grain of human nature (positive self-interest), a utopia that rewards the worst expression of self-interest (parasitism) and punishes the capable.

As I say up-thread, no doubt one day your utopia (or sumthin' very much like it) will 'be', but only after folks like you have degraded human nature, obliterated it, ground it under heel into the pavement. That it is: you're gonna have to remake 'man' in your own image, but first, you have negate 'individual'.

As I also say up-thread: I won't participate in such shenanigans.

*Again: you and yours will have an easier time of it tomorrow if you deal with throwbacks like myself today.

*best free advice I can give any communitarian...would be wise not to dismiss it
I disagree with the fact that there's "nothing to be done about that" and that the people are "stupid and weak". I think they view the people who have money today as truly fake people with too much self-importance and that they are just using social gestures and kindness to get ahead rather than hard work. In this new moneyless society, we would see who truly wanted to work and make society a better place. In the current system, lack of communication (or fake communication) to others can be beneficial/neutral to the individual, whereas in a community based system that behavior would make them outcast very quickly and there would not be a "delay" in getting things done as every person would know exactly their role rather than one person making a lot of money by doing the job of one that could be done by multiple people.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:31 am

"there would not be a "delay" in getting things done as every person would know exactly their role"

How will folks arrive at this knowing?

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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:00 pm

The ideology broadest of mind.

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