The Ideal Ideology

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Luna
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The Ideal Ideology

Post by Luna » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:21 pm

What's the Ideal Ideology?

Is even possible to find/make up one ideal ideology for all human beings?
Doesn't it mean that If we had one it wouldn't be Ideal Ideology, because we would be denying the individuality of others?
Should I imagine Ideal Ideology as some as some kind of utopy? Harmonious coexistence?

Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:12 pm

Yes, group individuality, you`d be denying group individuality. The only way to unite the world is through global balanced investment and support, and this is the pathway to one group of individuals not being quite as radically different from the next. Rules would remain essential, but meanwhile it would likely eventually take us to a place closer to an ideal state of coexisting. Bare in mind though, we`d still only be humans,

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henry quirk
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here you go, problem solved

Post by henry quirk » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm

'Mind your own goddamned business and keep your friggin' hands to yourself...'

Do this and you can't go wrong.

'...or else.'

For when the other guy won't (mind his own biz, etc.).

thata23
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Re: here you go, problem solved

Post by thata23 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:40 am

henry quirk wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
'Mind your own goddamned business and keep your friggin' hands to yourself...'

Do this and you can't go wrong.

'...or else.'

For when the other guy won't (mind his own biz, etc.).
But in reality that is impossible, as every person's actions affect every other person's actions merely by being alive. If everyone had that attitude, humanity would not progress and nothing would get done. If anything, the exact opposite would be ideal, assuming everyone is 100% transparent and will not try to manipulate or take advantage of his fellow brother or sister. I don't see how a single ideology to treat each other fairly and do the best to advance humanity and society would be a bad thing, just have to quell those who want to be above the team and feel it is okay to take advantage of other humans...

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:53 pm

"I don't see how a single ideology to treat each other fairly and do the best to advance humanity and society would be a bad thing"

It's a crap idea cuz different folks have different ideas of what's fair and what's considered progress.

Wars get fought over such things.

#

"every person's actions affect every other person's actions merely by being alive"

Not really, no. What the powers that be do has certain effects on large numbers; what folks in your immediate vicinity do has certain effects on you, but Joe, beatin' his wife across town probably doesn't affect you at all (unless your heart bleeds for every stranger you hear about). No, most of what happens around you, what other folks do, is of little consequence to you and what you do.

#

"If everyone had (Henry's) attitude, humanity would not progress and nothing would get done"

No, with my attitude as the default, folks would still cooperate and compete...they'd just be more cautious and respectful about it.
#

"the exact opposite would be ideal, assuming everyone is 100% transparent and will not try to manipulate or take advantage of his fellow brother or sister"

Ideal=the insanity of believing folks will operate out of anything other than self-interest.

This...

Mind your own business; keep your hands to yourself

...is practical and wholly in keeping with individual self-interest.

And this...

I don't see how a single ideology to treat each other fairly and do the best to advance humanity and society would be a bad thing

...is just crazy talk.

Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:48 am

The only thing wrong with it is that it could n`t exist, and even if it could, it could n`t, merely from out of its comparatively insignificant existence, be made to work. In any event, most of the time it would be set to the back of most people`s minds. Ideology is merely the territory of intellects.

thata23
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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by thata23 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:04 am

Well, then it sounds like you both feel humanity will always be doomed to be slaves to their own self-interests with no higher purpose. That is a reality I refuse to believe and feel we are here for a bigger reason, the only thing preventing all of us thinking that way and having a utopia is our own minds. How is that not incredible?

surreptitious57
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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:09 am

Pragmatism is the most ideal since it actually works and so can easily be demonstrated
And I would also reference utilitarianism and empiricism and logic for the same reason
Although it may be over stretching the definition to regard some of them as ideologies

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-1-
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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by -1- » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:04 am

Harmony exists as long as groups have no conflicting interests.

Once conflicting interests set in, wars, revolutions, or other strife starts.

Ideology is only a carrier, a container of reasons, why the war is necessary or just, from a fighting group's perspective.

Ideologies never disturbed harmony; never started wars; never created peace. They only served as slogans, mouth-pieces, inspirational thoughts for people to accept why they have to got to war or why they have to stop fighting.

No ideology or differences between them or similarities between them will affect the availability of resources, or the conflict of interests. One is a mental state, the other, is an economical / resource need. The two have nothing in common, one can't influence the other.

Therefore to seek refuge in an "ideal" ideology that will stop strife any time in the future is wagging the dog. It's not ideologies that start wars or strife; it's strife due to economic necessity what creates ideologies.

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Re: The Ideal Ideology

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:36 am

thata23 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:04 am
Well, then it sounds like you both feel humanity will always be doomed to be slaves to their own self-interests with no higher purpose. That is a reality I refuse to believe and feel we are here for a bigger reason, the only thing preventing all of us thinking that way and having a utopia is our own minds. How is that not incredible?
Of course humanity will operate within the confines of self interest, but this has more to say for being liberated than for being doomed. Self (intelligent) interest can be the biggest interest going, it absorbs the survival of the species, for instance. None of us are islands, and therefore genuine self interest/our best interest can only ever factor in the interest of others. You speak of self interest on the level of the species, and it by definition includes others here.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:10 pm

"I...feel we are here for a bigger reason"

Then strive for your utopia.

Just remember: some folks disagree with you and won't participate in what amounts to chasin' rainbows.

thata23
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Re:

Post by thata23 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:50 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:10 pm
"I...feel we are here for a bigger reason"

Then strive for your utopia.

Just remember: some folks disagree with you and won't participate in what amounts to chasin' rainbows.
Well then those people are mean and should not be allowed to have kids as they might make them evil too.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:09 am

"Well then those people are mean..."

By your standards, yes, we are.

#

"...and should not be allowed to have kids..."

*Too late!

#

"...as they might make them evil too."

Doin' my best (to make him as 'evil' as me).

thata23
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Re:

Post by thata23 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:31 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:09 am
"Well then those people are mean..."

By your standards, yes, we are.

#

"...and should not be allowed to have kids..."

*Too late!

#

"...as they might make them evil too."

Doin' my best (to make him as 'evil' as me).
The truth and people will win, you and people who think like you are just backing yourselves into a corner and delaying the inevitable. People who don't want to separate themselves will simply produce more kids than you (they're not just going to give up and say, oh well, we lost).

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Oh, I have no doubt the communitarian utopia you crave is just 'round the corner...nuthin' I can do about that except refuse to help you make it happen.

You and yours would be wise to set up the 're-education centers' (concentration camps) for me and mine, now rather than later.

Round us up...'disappear' us...that'll make the segue smooth and painless (for you).

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