Humanism on my mind

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marjoram_blues
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:26 am

Woke up this morning to find humanism on my mind.
When a person runs out of faith, and cannot sustain belief no matter how much it brought comfort and a sense of belonging, where to turn...

I read online bbc news that the demand is up for humanist pastoral care, and Charity Humanists UK are training Welsh volunteers in this work.

'More and more people are not comfortable receiving traditional chaplain care based around religious needs...particularly in hospices where the view of a non-religious person can be very different'.

A caption reads: ' Humanists base ethical decisions on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings'.

Unfortunately, since it is a human endeavour, like religion, there are disagreements as to description and understanding of what it involves to be a humanist. See wiki.

The term 'Secular humanism' has been used in 'hostile fashion by religious fundamentalists and the religious right'. Arguments made that it would 'lead to ethical bankruptcy'.
So, ' Humanists are seen as a threat to the values set out in sacred texts'.

There seems to be 3 categories of humanist:
1. Religious humanism
2. Secular humanism
3. Humanism as a 'life stance'

There are also related philosophies like Empiricism, Skepticism, Stoicism. See wiki list.

So much to consider and explore within the safe space of the Philosophy Now forum.
If what is sought after is something to fill the gap of a religious belief no longer held, then where is the harm.
This is not an attack on theism, nor an argument for atheism, just a look at an alternative space
for living and dying.
I don't wish for this to turn into the usual atheist v theist arguments already explored to the max on here.
Careful consideration of another life perspective without animosity and in the spirit of philosophical curiosity, or investigation, is appreciated. As is a sense of sparkling wit and humour...
Anyone ?

[ note to would-be readers of this thread: there's only a small section about 'Humanism' ]
Last edited by marjoram_blues on Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by Belinda » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:12 am

I used to be a member of a local Humanist group. Local groups are made according to the members and especially the convener and other more active members. The Humanist group which I was a member of had a special interest group about philosophy in which each member was expected to actively participate.

Marjoram, if you join a local Humanist group, or initiate one, I hope this will be a great success for you, and I hope it will be a successful group.

In the Humanist group which I was a member of I think that I may have been the only one with any religious sympathy or affiliation. The religious group I also belonged to had about one third of its members who were also humanists.

ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by ken » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:18 pm

Why do human beings have to continuously try to be putting themselves into sub-categories?

This has never worked nor never will. The sub-categories are obviously a huge cause for a lot of disagreements, disputes, fighting, and warring also.

So, what is wrong with just being a human being, which is just a human body with thoughts and feelings?

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:25 pm

Why should anything be in categories Ken? There's a universe and it contains stuff. Perhaps we shouldn't need any of these divisive containers such as horses, stones, people and hats; they are all just stuff in a wonderful universe without distinction.

tbieter
Posts: 1197
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by tbieter » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:28 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:26 am
Woke up this morning to find humanism on my mind.
When a person runs out of faith, and cannot sustain belief no matter how much it brought comfort and a sense of belonging, where to turn...

I read online bbc news that the demand is up for humanist pastoral care, and Charity Humanists UK are training Welsh volunteers in this work.

'More and more people are not comfortable receiving traditional chaplain care based around religious needs...particularly in hospices where the view of a non-religious person can be very different'.

A caption reads: ' Humanists base ethical decisions on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings'.

Unfortunately, since it is a human endeavour, like religion, there are disagreements as to description and understanding of what it involves to be a humanist. See wiki.

The term 'Secular humanism' has been used in 'hostile fashion by religious fundamentalists and the religious right'. Arguments made that it would 'lead to ethical bankruptcy'.
So, ' Humanists are seen as a threat to the values set out in sacred texts'.

There seems to be 3 categories of humanist:
1. Religious humanism
2. Secular humanism
3. Humanism as a 'life stance'

There are also related philosophies like Empiricism, Skepticism, Stoicism. See wiki list.

So much to consider and explore within the safe space of the Philosophy Now forum.
If what is sought after is something to fill the gap of a religious belief no longer held, then where is the harm.
This is not an attack on theism, nor an argument for atheism, just a look at an alternative space
for living and dying.
I don't wish for this to turn into the usual atheist v theist arguments already explored to the max on here.
Careful consideration of another life perspective without animosity and in the spirit of philosophical curiosity, or investigation, is appreciated. As is a sense of sparkling wit and humour...
Anyone ?
Why not investigate the American Humanism of Irving Babbitt?

Belinda
Posts: 2778
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by Belinda » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:39 pm

ken wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:18 pm
Why do human beings have to continuously try to be putting themselves into sub-categories?

This has never worked nor never will. The sub-categories are obviously a huge cause for a lot of disagreements, disputes, fighting, and warring also.

So, what is wrong with just being a human being, which is just a human body with thoughts and feelings?
Many people like to associate with others with similar interests and aims.I do.

ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by ken » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:04 pm

Belinda wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:39 pm
ken wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:18 pm
Why do human beings have to continuously try to be putting themselves into sub-categories?

This has never worked nor never will. The sub-categories are obviously a huge cause for a lot of disagreements, disputes, fighting, and warring also.

So, what is wrong with just being a human being, which is just a human body with thoughts and feelings?
Many people like to associate with others with similar interests and aims.I do.
Of course they do, I would say ALL do that. That is plainly obvious, but My question was regarding to WHY do you, human beings, try to fit yourselves into smaller and smaller sub-groups? What is wrong with the group 'human beings'? Why do you have to try and "pigeon hole" yourselves and squeeze yourselves into separated groups?

You, all, will naturally in day to day life be drawn to and associate more with others with similar and same interests. This is totally normal and natural to Me. But to Me it is this trying to form sub-groups, and then trying to fit into these labeled smaller groups, which tends to turn human beings against themselves. I do NOT see WHY you ALL can NOT be happy just being human beings.

I just do NOT see any purpose in forming separate groups and then calling yourselves things such as, atheists, theists, agnostics, jews, muslims, christians, american, korean, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and then trying to continually re-define those labels to fit in with your already held view, assumptions and beliefs. The truth is none of these things can be accurately defined, agreed with, and accepted by a relatively small group of human beings let alone a majority of human beings. I do NOT see the purpose of doing any of this separatist behavior, especially when the vast majority can and do agree and accept that ALL of you fit into the group called human beings. You are ALL human beings, who each have different thoughts and feelings, according to the different experiences that you all have had, and you all like and do different things.

I KNOW the brain works by compartmentalizing all things into separate and different groups. This is how the human brain makes sense of the "world" around it, but WHY can human beings NOT YET see that it is this separating of human beings that is what is the cause of just about all of the problems in the world?

By the way what are some of the different similar aims that different human beings share?

To Me, I see there is only one aim that ALL human beings share, or started out sharing anyway.

In the end, to you, what is it that human beings are actually aiming for?

ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by ken » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:19 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:25 pm
Why should anything be in categories Ken?
In order to make sense of ALL-THERE-IS.
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:25 pm
There's a universe and it contains stuff. Perhaps we shouldn't need any of these divisive containers such as horses, stones, people and hats; they are all just stuff in a wonderful universe without distinction.
We, human beings, do NOT need any of these divisive containers. But, if we, human beings, are to make sense of and understand every thing, then we need to put every thing or all stuff into compartments or divided containers.

My question was and still is about putting human beings, themselves, into divisive containers, as this is NOT necessary at all. In fact the trying to fit people into different divisive containers is a big part in what causes the literal divisiveness within human beings, themselves.

One reason why most human beings have not yet been able to discover, work out, and/or see and understand WHO they really are is because of this relentless divisive containerizing of themselves. Instead of just looking at what IS, human beings are continually trying to place themselves into separate and different sub-categories, which they really are not. Older human beings try to put any thing into what they already assume and/or believe is the true picture, this includes themselves.

Look at My questions again, and see how you did not really nor openly look at what I actually said and asked, I asked a very simple, straightforward question about human beings themselves being placed into sub-categories only, but instead you tried to place what I actually said and asked into an already held view of what you thought, assumed, and/or believed I was asking.

I was obviously NOT thinking anywhere along the lines of what YOUR answer is, which was to YOUR own question by the way.

You asked me a clarifying question, but before you allowed Me to answer it, you answered it yourself, with an assumption about what I might be thinking, which was obviously way off track.

marjoram_blues
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:01 pm

Ken, I don't tend to label myself or others. However, this thread is not about why humans categorise. It is about my dealing with the world as it is, with all the crazy nonsense and stuff humans bring to it. Like death rituals; like comforting the living and the dying...

You have your own threads dealing with your own preoccupation.
Please let me have mine.

Thanks to others, I'll respond later.

FlashDangerpants
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:44 pm

ken wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:19 pm
Older human beings try to put any thing into what they already assume and/or believe is the true picture, this includes themselves.
"Older Human Beings" is a category. You are not capable of exercising your own will even when it is the very point you are trying to argue for.

That's because it is a bad idea that you didn't think through before hijacking yet another thread to pursue your own narrow obsessions.

marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Belinda wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:12 am
I used to be a member of a local Humanist group. Local groups are made according to the members and especially the convener and other more active members. The Humanist group which I was a member of had a special interest group about philosophy in which each member was expected to actively participate.

Marjoram, if you join a local Humanist group, or initiate one, I hope this will be a great success for you, and I hope it will be a successful group.

In the Humanist group which I was a member of I think that I may have been the only one with any religious sympathy or affiliation. The religious group I also belonged to had about one third of its members who were also humanists.
Belinda, thanks for this. Your local Humanist group sounds excellent, given its inclusive nature and active specialist groups. It makes sense to look at what is available nearby and this I have done.
They are few and far between in Scotland. The nearest and easiest would be Edinburgh but the meet up times are not suitable.

I don't know enough to initiate one. But again, your best wishes are very much appreciated.
Have to say, I don't usually consider myself a 'group' person...

You talk in the past tense. Did you leave for a particular reason? ( If you don't mind me asking)

marjoram_blues
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:30 pm

tbieter- thanks for the suggestion. However, I think my focus will need to be on the current and practical side. There is too much to research otherwise.

My brain seems to be shrinking at an alarming rate :shock:
That's why I'm on here - hoping to steal from the best and beautiful :wink:
Particularly from those with experience, like Belinda.

My best bet would probably be to find a 'Humanism Now' forum...

marjoram_blues
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:34 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:44 pm
ken wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:19 pm
Older human beings try to put any thing into what they already assume and/or believe is the true picture, this includes themselves.
"Older Human Beings" is a category. You are not capable of exercising your own will even when it is the very point you are trying to argue for.

That's because it is a bad idea that you didn't think through before hijacking yet another thread to pursue your own narrow obsessions.

Appreciate the support - to keep on track.
Any ideas or experience re humanism ?

Belinda
Posts: 2778
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by Belinda » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:38 pm

Marjoram_Blues, I left Edinburgh to live nearer to my relations in England. Where I live now began as a market town, became a manufacturing town and unlike Edinburgh is all commercial and has to this day no living tradition of intellectual exploration.
This brings me to answer Ken's critique of groupiness.

There are in actual fact two distinct ways to talk to each other. These are called language codes. One sort of group uses one code for the most part and the other sort of group for the most part uses the other code.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/ ... icted-code

There are other reasons that people get together. Levels and specialisms of knowledge do in fact vary, and to talk to people who lack one's specialism is laborious and time consuming.

In certain traditional societies where the gender roles are rigidly separated women and men live much more separate lives from each other than we do in European societies.
One other cause for people associating in close and closed groups is the brotherhood among men who have a dangerous occupation e.g. old fashioned coal mining, or front line combat, and who have all experienced the same suffering.

marjoram_blues
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Humanism on my mind

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:28 pm

Belinda wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:38 pm
Marjoram_Blues, I left Edinburgh to live nearer to my relations in England. Where I live now began as a market town, became a manufacturing town and unlike Edinburgh is all commercial and has to this day no living tradition of intellectual exploration.
This brings me to answer Ken's critique of groupiness.

There are in actual fact two distinct ways to talk to each other. These are called language codes. One sort of group uses one code for the most part and the other sort of group for the most part uses the other code.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/ ... icted-code

There are other reasons that people get together. Levels and specialisms of knowledge do in fact vary, and to talk to people who lack one's specialism is laborious and time consuming.

In certain traditional societies where the gender roles are rigidly separated women and men live much more separate lives from each other than we do in European societies.
One other cause for people associating in close and closed groups is the brotherhood among men who have a dangerous occupation e.g. old fashioned coal mining, or front line combat, and who have all experienced the same suffering.
'Groupiness' - an interesting subject in its own right. Are you an anthropologist - linguist - any other category of specialist ?

Some prefer working in isolation with a little bit of help from their friends. Some feel a sense of wonder and one-ness on their own. Some like to keep knowledge to themselves; others, like yourself, are generous and careful in their expression and respectful relationship with others.

I appreciate your response to Ken. I learned from it. Is it an aspect of your religious humanism that provides this quality in relating to others. Or is it just you being you...

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