Against Caffeine

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

Arising_uk wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:13 pm
Great.
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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:51 pm If we ever actually did ban caffeine [...]
IMO you're being more papist than the Pope.

Remember Pope Clement VIII when clamored by wise advisors to ban coffee:

“This Satan’s drink is so delicious that it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it.”
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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:41 pm
I take you point, but caffeine has little effect on BP, mostly diastolic, for a short time, and subject to desensitization. Not enough to ban it. For the liver, hard to be acceptable. Caffeine, if any measurable effect on blood sugar, will raise it. Not enough to ban it. On the contrary, caffeine on the long term prevents Diabetes Mellitus.

Anyway this thread is absolute nonsense. Shall we ban oranges next because there are people allergic to them?
thedoc
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by thedoc »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:57 pm
thedoc wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:32 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:18 am
If you're replacing regular coffee with the decaff, you could just be getting a migraine from withdrawal of caffeine. If I suddenly stop or switch over to decaff from daily coffee use, I get migraines as well.
It wasn't withdraw, I did some testing to be sure, there was something in the Sanka decaffeinated that caused it, I have given up coffee completely and didn't have a reaction.
Interesting.
Over the years I've discovered several effects of different foods.
Coffee keeps me regular, When I stopped I got constipated, so I started drinking some each day, but not as much.
I used to drink alcoholic drinks to excess and finally just stopped altogether. When I realized that Instead of drinking I was eating 5 - 6 Tums a day I decided something was wrong and I started drinking wine again. I haven't had to take a Tums in years.
I stopped eating ice cream, and sweet potatoes because they upset my stomach. My wife doesn't make corn for me and I don't eat nuts, both of them aggravate my diverticulitis.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

PauloL wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:44 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:41 pm
I take you point, but caffeine has little effect on BP, mostly diastolic, for a short time, and subject to desensitization. Not enough to ban it. For the liver, hard to be acceptable. Caffeine, if any measurable effect on blood sugar, will raise it. Not enough to ban it. On the contrary, caffeine on the long term prevents Diabetes Mellitus.
I agree with you completely that we shouldn't ban it. It was sort of my point, the number of health complications associated with it are so low they're negligible for most. I think you misunderstand my intention here.
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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:24 pm
x....................................................................................................................x





......... True.





x....................................................................................................................x
thedoc
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by thedoc »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:24 pm I agree with you completely that we shouldn't ban it.
The proper role of the government is to educate the population on the dangers of different materials and foods, but it should not be given the power to ban anything.
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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

thedoc wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:46 pm
I fully agree that Governments shouldn't be given power to ban anything [without a strong reason].

I doubt that Governments are apt to educate anyone. Politicos are indeed quite incompetent on that. I even think that science, just like religion, should be separated from state. Politicos try to educate as a matter of fact, but for political reasons only, so they are demagogic choosing what's important and what isn't.

Look at electronic cigarettes, EC. Politicos offer evidence based on weak sources, ignoring important ones, benefiting from heavy media coverage, which makes their claims look credible, making EC users return to tobacco, for the sole reason that they don't want outsiders interfere with their control of tobacco monopoly established centuries ago. They don't care if they aren't preventing cancer deaths by their positions because political interest must prevail and they won't be judged in Nuremberg.

Even if World Health Organization, a political body charged with public health, benefits from quite prestige these days, their authority became highly suspicious since political and commercial reasons in their positions leaked.

The role of Government should be encouraging proliferation of sound education emanated from independent scientific (non-political) bodies. Otherwise we risk a ban on coffee for political reasons disguised as scientific evidence.

If this nonsense ban on coffee attracted influential followers, what would they need to get a ban on coffee? Simple: lobbying. Then the Government would spread their false claims sourced by governmental entities to make them credible before enforcing the ban.
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Gloominary »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:31 am You're correct to say that caffeine can worsen many mental pathologist, but it can also improve many of them. This really just needs to be at the leisure of the person to decide, because I've even heard some people with anxiety disorders say it helps them, especially those with social anxiety. Likewise, stress levels and migraines are commonly elevated by caffeine.

The truth is, caffeine is one of the most harmless and safest drugs to the known world. Even some of the claims of the fear mongers complaining about energy drink are pretty unfounded. The LD50 of caffeine is so incredibly high, the only risk it really poses is if you have a predisposed condition like HBP, liver issues, or low blood sugar. It has serious interactions with very few medications as well.
Often the migraines and other afflictions coffee temporarily alleviates are caused by caffeine withdrawal.
Drugs are usually quick fixes to problems that could be better treated by improving health, fitness, perspective...

Most natural drugs in small doses: alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, don't normally do a lot of harm, except to sensitive individuals...at least in the short term.
The harm is cumulative, which's why, among other reasons, I reckon it's overlooked.
After years of abuse, misuse and even just use the body increasingly has a difficult time metabolizing and coping with its numerous adverse effects, and then people either have to reduce their intake, give it up altogether, or else mask the symptoms with other, albeit pharmaceutical drugs, which'n turn, have symptoms which must be masked.
I recommend everyone supplement mainline science with alternative literature on the subject in addition to, giving it up for a while, seeing for yourself how much it negatively impacts your health.

90% of people are hooked on caffeine and probably another 9-9.9% are habitually taking something else.
So few people really know their natural, sober selves.
You could say most people are like fake people, their thoughts and feelings exaggerated by substance dependency.
If you can't go a single day without feeling dreadful, than how good for you could it really be?
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

thedoc wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:17 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:57 pm
thedoc wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:32 am

It wasn't withdraw, I did some testing to be sure, there was something in the Sanka decaffeinated that caused it, I have given up coffee completely and didn't have a reaction.
Interesting.
Over the years I've discovered several effects of different foods.
Coffee keeps me regular, When I stopped I got constipated, so I started drinking some each day, but not as much.
I used to drink alcoholic drinks to excess and finally just stopped altogether. When I realized that Instead of drinking I was eating 5 - 6 Tums a day I decided something was wrong and I started drinking wine again. I haven't had to take a Tums in years.
I stopped eating ice cream, and sweet potatoes because they upset my stomach. My wife doesn't make corn for me and I don't eat nuts, both of them aggravate my diverticulitis.
What is a Tum?
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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:01 am
Why didn't you Google it?

http://www.tums.com

We take Kompensan-S here instead.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

PauloL wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:06 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:01 am
Why didn't you Google it?

http://www.tums.com

We take Kompensan-S here instead.
I did but nothing came up.
I didn't think it was any of these:



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Greta
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Greta »

Gloominary wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:33 pm
So it's best for individuals to decide for themselves what works best with their own minds and bodies.
A smart, educated community can sometimes know individuals better than they know themselves, or they may not want or need certain individuals in their community.
A smart and educated society can sometimes know very naive individuals better than they know themselves but intelligent adult would ideally not be so controlled. Of course, the truth is that intelligent people are patronised and controlled by their mental inferiors all the time, because creating rules with the LCD in mind is administratively simpler and cheaper.

Whatever, sugar does far more damage to people than coffee does, or even can. Also, if coffee is to be discouraged then how about tea, chocolate and energy drinks, also containing caffeine.

I personally think that life is so full of problems and aggravations that it is inhuman and inhumane to deny people their compensatory poisons, barring the very most anti-social and lethal of them such as ice, crack and heroin.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

Gloominary wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:09 pmOften the migraines and other afflictions coffee temporarily alleviates are caused by caffeine withdrawal. Drugs are usually quick fixes to problems that could be better treated by improving health, fitness, perspective and so on.
Well yes, but caffeine really does help to potentiate pain relievers like aspirin. So the use of it in something like Excedrin is a little more than just about relieving withdrawal.

I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive, someone can exercise and live a healthy life style as well as take such a benign substance like caffeine. No one has any issues with it but you. You should really stop, you're getting so hung up and exaggerating over this extremely benign drug it's making you look silly.

When I was in customer service a few years back, I would often drink 2+ monster energy drinks, a starbucks, and part of a shot of 5hour energy daily and I did not notice any significant adverse reactions - even when I suddenly stopped. Even my very indulgent and clear overuse of caffeine didn't make me feel that bad. It's absolutely nothing compared to when I smoked, where I noticed a very stark difference in my health.
If you can't go one day without it without feeling dreadful, than how good for you could it really be?
You can't go a day without getting any carbohydrates, protein, or essential nutrients either. I guess we should all obstinate from that as well?
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

thedoc wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:46 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:24 pm I agree with you completely that we shouldn't ban it.
The proper role of the government is to educate the population on the dangers of different materials and foods, but it should not be given the power to ban anything.
I can relate to that, generally speaking I'm a pretty small-government guy and think that they should mostly stay out of our private lives.
Last edited by Sir-Sister-of-Suck on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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