Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Arising_uk »

I thought him from Sussex?
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Arising_uk
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Arising_uk »

Immanuel Can wrote:... the Gulf Wars ...
Is IC saying Americans and America are not Christian?
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Arising_uk
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Arising_uk »

ForCruxSake wrote:...
When the very English phenomenon of 'skinheads' came into being (-English nutters who kicked the shit out of anyone different, but particularly Black and Asian people) none of the ethnic minorities, or those under attack, claimed that their fascist ideology was representive of all that was English, or English people in general. They weren't. They were just a bunch of racist nutters who wanted to make England white again. ...
Bit unfair here as when the skinheads first appeared they were white working-class rude-boys copying the Jamaicans in their midst, they loved ska and reggae. The real racism came later with the Oi movement and those aping the original skins. Not saying the originals didn't bash 'pakis' and indians but blacks were not so much a target for the originals.
ForCruxSake
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by ForCruxSake »

Arising_uk wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote:...
When the very English phenomenon of 'skinheads' came into being (-English nutters who kicked the shit out of anyone different, but particularly Black and Asian people) none of the ethnic minorities, or those under attack, claimed that their fascist ideology was representive of all that was English, or English people in general. They weren't. They were just a bunch of racist nutters who wanted to make England white again. ...
Bit unfair here as when the skinheads first appeared they were white working-class rude-boys copying the Jamaicans in their midst, they loved ska and reggae. The real racism came later with the Oi movement and those aping the original skins. Not saying the originals didn't bash 'pakis' and indians but blacks were not so much a target for the originals.
You're right about the influences on the original skinheads and how they changed. Oh, the irony! don't think the originals were that violent but it was when the movement was hijacked and grew in strength that they became a phenomenon. These are the people I'm talking about. My statement was more about illustrating a point about Islamophobia than making a point about skinheads but apologies for appearing to paint my point with a rather large brush stroke. :)
Last edited by ForCruxSake on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
ForCruxSake
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by ForCruxSake »

Immanuel Can wrote:It's funny to me that Islam, it is said, does not "cause" terrorism.

Meanwhile, the same people will tell you that Christianity "caused" the Crusades, the Inquisition, the repression of women, slavery, anti-scientism, the Gulf Wars...and the recent loss of Aunt Mathilde's socks under the bed.

Does "religion" actually "cause" something, or not? People need to pick a horse and ride it. Jumping from nag to nag inevitably puts one in the drink. :wink:
It's always been my understanding that 'terrorism' is a response to a 'cause', whoever perpetrates it, not a cause in itself. Causes are events that set off responses. Christianity is a religious movement not an event, as is Islam. The Irish response to an Ireland, occupied by the British, was a campaign of bombing. The Irish, nor the bombing itself, were causes. The Crusades were a response to the reclaiming of Jerusalem for the Roman Catholic Church. Not so much a holy war as one of reconquest.

Whilst we're on the Crusades, here's a lovely quote from http://study.com/academy/lesson/the-cru ... inish.html that seems relevant to the modern day:

"Urban delivered his sales pitch for the First Crusade at a council of clergy in the French town of Clermont. There, Urban gave a speech calling on the people of France to rescue Jerusalem from the hands of the infidel. The speech exaggerated the threat of Islam in apocalyptic terms. Listening to Urban, one would think that all of Christendom faced the imminent threat of annihilation from Muslims. To rile up the crowd, Urban accused Muslims of committing horrible atrocities against Christians."

History repeating itself ?
Last edited by ForCruxSake on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
ForCruxSake
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by ForCruxSake »

Arising_uk wrote:I thought him from Sussex?
Born in Kent (on Christmas Day, 1964), was registered as living in Birmingham, at the time of the attack, and spent the night before in Brighton, which is in East Sussex.
Belinda
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Belinda »

Don't you think that young men especially who are or feel themselves to be outcasts for any reason need to join something, and often make an effort to do so. Their Islam choice might in some cases be a protest against their previous social background, while at the same time offering a refuge from anomie.
ForCruxSake
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by ForCruxSake »

Belinda wrote:Don't you think that young men especially who are or feel themselves to be outcasts for any reason need to join something, and often make an effort to do so. Their Islam choice might in some cases be a protest against their previous social background, while at the same time offering a refuge from anomie.
In the past, I argued that disenfranchised young British Asian males did need to feel a sense of belonging and, where they felt shut out by British culture, opportunistically and financially, it was easy for them to be radicalised in a mosque. That was in the days of the the 'July 7th' attacks. That was then.

This is now: these days we seem to be subjected to those under the influence of a media stoked hallucination about where to place their misguided anger and frustration.

Hardline converts, who are true Muslims, don't become terrorists. They usually become so hardline they will turn on moderate Muslims, to correct the error of their ways. They will not break British laws to do this.

Don't get me wrong, there really are true 'freedom' fighters out there who can justify their actions with thought and commitment to the fanatic ideology that leads to violence. They end up in Syria, or travelling to join some kind of army, where they can be trained as 'proper' terrorists. They are the ones who don't always come back, fighting in foreign countries such as Syria, Afghanistan... wherever they have been persuaded they might be needed, much like the English who went to join the Spanish Civil War cause. They do plan attacks in a coordinated manner, though we have not seen the like for quite some time here in Britain. Possibly because British intelligence manages to uncover plots, possibly because they have better places to fight,

The ones we are seeing attacking,like Khalid Masood (formerly Adrian Elms), seem to be lone wolves, undetected by British intelligence, with some kind of mental health or social disorder issues, people ready to commit violence, clutching on to an ideology, to 'legitimise' their need to be violent. Islam is an OUTLET of frustration and agression, for these people, not the IMPETUS BEHIND their aggression and frustration.
Walker
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Walker »

The software upgrade allows for direct transcription of voice file from a digital recorder. Fantastic. I’m probably the last to know. This lessens the need for these blazing keyboard skills. Here’s a relevant road test from the shelf using the words of a worker-philosopher.

“The Frustration of misfits can vary in intensity. There are first the temporary misfits; people who have not found their place in life but still hope to find it. Adolescent youth, unemployed college graduates, veterans, new immigrants and the like are of the this category.”

(Commentary: Transcribed with keyboard, and review reveals a typo.)

(Commentary: I’d venture to say that sidewalk drivers are misfits who have given up hope of finding their place in life that extends very far beyond the moment.)

“The permanent misfits are those who because of a lack of talent or some irreparable defect in body or mind cannot do the one thing for which their whole being craves. No achievement, however spectacular, in other fields can give them a sense of fulfillment. Whatever they undertake becomes a passionate pursuit; but they never arrive, never pause. They demonstrate the fact that we can never have enough of that which we really do not want, and that we run fastest and farthest when we run from ourselves.

“The permanent misfits can find salvation only in a complete separation from the self; and they usually find it by losing themselves in the compact collectivity of a mass movement. By renouncing individual will, judgment and ambition, and dedicating all their powers to the service of an eternal cause, they are at last lifted off the endless treadmill which can never lead them to fulfillment.”
Eric Hoffer
- The True Believer


*

Pretty good using a mobile, hand-held recorder. Only three errors by the virtual robot, and easy to read for edits while the machine transcribes the file onto the screen. It’s also good biofeedback for improving diction.
Pluto
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

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Belinda
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Belinda »

For Crux Sake wrote:
Islam is an OUTLET of frustration and agression, for these people, not the IMPETUS BEHIND their aggression and frustration.
Sorry I just read your interesting post and I haven't replied probably because of computer problems slowing down my response. I agree. I guess that happier people use Islam and its holy scriptures as media to express their happiness and contentment and aspirations for continued happiness and contentment for them and their communities.
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Greta
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Greta »

I recently read an article about how China and India avoided the same degree of terrorist troubles as the west. Largely it's because they focus on home grown terrorists rather than those abroad. It also occurred to me that life is so hard for many Indians, especially, that terrorism is probably well down the list of threats they face.

What is terrorism anyway? It's technologically weak nations/ideologies doing all that they can in the face of great military and security power. So they target less well-guarded people - civilians. It's akin to a small boxer ignoring the Marquess of Queensberry rules and kicking the gonads of the larger fighter to stay in the fight.

Ultimately terrorism is just another way of waging war, and war is obviously an existential threat.
FlashDangerpants
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Greta wrote:I recently read an article about how China and India avoided the same degree of terrorist troubles as the west.
Did it mention that one of those states has the world's largest secret police force which throws people into prison for being troublemakers rather than waiting for them to do criminal things, while the other suffers regular terror attacks including this one that killed 164 people?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

The only existential threat that is possible would be if terrorists were to acquire a large collection of nuclear bombs.

Aside from that people in the west suffer from more deaths by vacuum cleaners and other household items than terrorists.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Terrorism poses no 'existential' threat?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Greta wrote: Ultimately terrorism is just another way of waging war, and war is obviously an existential threat.
But since terrorism can never result in the end of the "existence" of a state, as a war can, it is not like other wars; more like a protest movement.
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