Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

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MozartLink
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Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by MozartLink » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:23 pm

Most people would think that to perceive your life as joyful and meaningful, that this solely comes about through one's way of thinking. This is not the case. You must understand here that all our experiences are produced by our brains. This would even include our ability to perceive our lives as joyful and meaningful. When you are in a state of misery that gets to a certain point, certain areas of the brain become overly active while others turn off. Your ability to function in life will get turned off which means this faculty has been shut down.

But your ability to perceive your life as joyful and meaningful can also get turned off as well when your misery and depression (hopelessness) reach a certain point. So when you go and listen to your favorite song, it will have no more significance whatsoever to it. It will now sound like nothing more than a stream of noise.

Ask any neuroscientist regarding everything that I just said and they will tell you that I am right. They will tell you that our ability to perceive our lives as joyful and meaningful is a faculty of our brains and that this faculty can get shut down during times of severe misery. So joy and meaning in our lives actually comes through a different faculty of our brains and not simply the faculty known as "thought."

When I was in a state of misery and listened to my favorite songs, they were nothing more than an insignificant stream of noise. Despite my efforts in thinking to myself that the song still had significance, this did nothing. It was no different than a blind person trying to give his/herself sight by thinking to his/herself that he/she can still see.

Well, that is not going to work since sight is a completely different perception than our thinking. Sight is the experience of visualizing objects and your thoughts alone cannot give you that experience. So this would also apply to the joy and meaning (significance) in one's life. This too relies on a faculty independent from our thinking alone. It relies on a perception that our thoughts alone cannot give us.

My absence of significance in my life during my time of misery was not due to my way of thinking alone; it was due to the altered state I was in due to my misery which shut down that faculty of my brain that allowed me to perceive my life as significant. When you are in an altered state, your way of thinking alone cannot get you out of it. You instead have to wait until the altered state can restore itself back to normal.

Lastly, I am not the only one here who has had that experience. There are plenty of severely depressed people out there whose joy and meaning has also been taken away from them. However, there are the fortunate types of depressed people out there as well since the faculty that allows them to perceive their lives as joyful and meaningful is still at least functional. But there are severely depressed and miserable people like me out there who are the unfortunate one's with this faculty shut down.

During that time of misery, I tried my best to make my life significant again, but that did absolutely nothing since that faculty that allowed me to perceive my life as significant was turned off. So there was nothing else I could of done but to simply wait it out until that faculty got restored which allowed my life to be joyful and meaningful once again. I have recovered from that miserable experience and all the significance in my life is almost fully restored as of now. This would include the significance I have with the songs I listen to.
Last edited by MozartLink on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:04 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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TSBU
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by TSBU » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:00 pm

What is "think" for you? Anyway, of course, you need reality to be happy or sad, or think.

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Harbal
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Harbal » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:51 pm

MozartLink wrote:Most people would think that to perceive your life as joyful and meaningful, that this solely comes about through one's way of thinking. This is not the case.
You bastard! I was perfectly happy till I read that.
So when you go and listen to your favorite song, it will have no more significance whatsoever to it. It will now sound like nothing more than a stream of noise.
At least I'm spared that. I don't have a favourite song.
Ask any neuroscientist regarding everything that I just said and they will tell you that I am right.
Okay, the next time I find myself chatting to a neuroscientist I'll be sure to bring up the subject.
They will tell you that our ability to perceive our lives as joyful and meaningful is a faculty of our brains and that this faculty can get shut down during times of severe misery.
So you're saying that severe misery tends to stop us feeling joyful?
When I was in a state of misery and listened to my favorite songs, they were nothing more than an insignificant stream of noise.
And you're sure this was due to your mental state, rather than just an awful taste in music?
So there was nothing else I could of done but to simply wait it out until that faculty got restored which allowed my life to be joyful and meaningful once again.
So you thought: while I'm waiting I might as well try and persuade everyone else they are as miserable as me? Thanks, Mozart, you're a proper ray of sunshine.

MozartLink
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by MozartLink » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:05 pm

Harbal wrote:
MozartLink wrote:Most people would think that to perceive your life as joyful and meaningful, that this solely comes about through one's way of thinking. This is not the case.
You bastard! I was perfectly happy till I read that.
So when you go and listen to your favorite song, it will have no more significance whatsoever to it. It will now sound like nothing more than a stream of noise.
At least I'm spared that. I don't have a favourite song.
Ask any neuroscientist regarding everything that I just said and they will tell you that I am right.
Okay, the next time I find myself chatting to a neuroscientist I'll be sure to bring up the subject.
They will tell you that our ability to perceive our lives as joyful and meaningful is a faculty of our brains and that this faculty can get shut down during times of severe misery.
So you're saying that severe misery tends to stop us feeling joyful?
When I was in a state of misery and listened to my favorite songs, they were nothing more than an insignificant stream of noise.
And you're sure this was due to your mental state, rather than just an awful taste in music?
So there was nothing else I could of done but to simply wait it out until that faculty got restored which allowed my life to be joyful and meaningful once again.
So you thought: while I'm waiting I might as well try and persuade everyone else they are as miserable as me? Thanks, Mozart, you're a proper ray of sunshine.
The songs losing all significance to me and sounding like nothing more than a stream of noise was, in fact, due to that miserable mental state I was in because now that I am recovered, the songs all have significance again and they no longer sound like a stream of noise.

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Harbal
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Harbal » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:11 pm

MozartLink wrote: The songs losing all significance to me and sounding like nothing more than a stream of noise was, in fact, due to that miserable mental state I was in because now that I am recovered, the songs all have significance again and they no longer sound like a stream of noise.
I love a happy ending.

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TSBU
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by TSBU » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:59 pm

Well, but this isn't new, I guess my favourite song would be noise in a torture chamber.

Take it easy, no one really thinks that everybody can be happy no matter the situation, only stupid people with too many people taking care of their needs and desires want to believe that, and there is no sense in trying to show what is evident, in fact, it's so self evident that, like many situations, talking to them only gives them the sense of "this is something that can be talked about". Like religion, the more you talk, the more the logic virus is spread.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Terrapin Station » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:43 am

MozartLink wrote:...
How are you defining "thought"/"thinking"?

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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by MozartLink » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:09 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
MozartLink wrote:...
How are you defining "thought"/"thinking"?
I don't know why you ask that. It's no different than asking how I define the word sun or the word moon. The sun is the sun and the moon is the moon just as how thinking is thinking and how a thought is a thought.

Dubious
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Dubious » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:18 am

MozartLink wrote: But your ability to perceive your life as joyful and meaningful can also get turned off as well when your misery and depression (hopelessness) reach a certain point. So when you go and listen to your favorite song, it will have no more significance whatsoever to it. It will now sound like nothing more than a stream of noise.
That depends on whether I'm listening to a waltz or a requiem. When miserable, I prefer the latter to cheer me up!

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Lacewing
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Lacewing » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:33 am

When the levee breaks, there are going to be good times, bad times.

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TSBU
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by TSBU » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:21 am

MozartLink wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:
MozartLink wrote:...
How are you defining "thought"/"thinking"?
I don't know why you ask that. It's no different than asking how I define the word sun or the word moon. The sun is the sun and the moon is the moon just as how thinking is thinking and how a thought is a thought.
The sun is a star, it's the center of the solar system, it is....
The moon is Earth satellite, you can see it at night like a white or yellow circle in the sky, it's made of...
Thinking is...

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TSBU
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by TSBU » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:22 am

Lacewing wrote:When the levee breaks, there are going to be good times, bad times.
Translation:
When your head is finally destroyed, there are going to be bad times, and worse times, and lot of lies.

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Lacewing
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by Lacewing » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:14 am

MozartLink wrote:So there was nothing else I could of done but to simply wait it out until that faculty got restored which allowed my life to be joyful and meaningful once again.
So, two questions:

1) How would you have responded then, if someone had told you this?

2) What would you now say to someone in that state of mind, if they kept continually going on and on about it?

MozartLink
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by MozartLink » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Lacewing wrote:
MozartLink wrote:So there was nothing else I could of done but to simply wait it out until that faculty got restored which allowed my life to be joyful and meaningful once again.
So, two questions:

1) How would you have responded then, if someone had told you this?

2) What would you now say to someone in that state of mind, if they kept continually going on and on about it?
1.) I would of waited it out then until I could fully recover. But in the meantime, my life would have no significance and that is why I would have to just stay in bed until I got better. You might say that the recovery had significance to me which is why I have chosen to live and wait until I have recovered, but that is not the same thing as having significance in my life. It was nothing more than a simple matter of me knowing that if I stayed, I would of recovered which is why I stayed and did not end my life.

But that is not the same thing as my life and hobbies having joy and meaning. In order for that to happen, that relies on that faculty I mentioned which I had to wait until it could fully recover. It was then that my life became significant again. All the joy and meaning was very slowly and very gradually brought back to me again.

2.) I would say that their lives are completely dead and empty and that even though they are talking and talking about it, that does not mean such a deed brings any significance to their lives. It is just something they did until they could recover and have actual significance in their lives again. I would realize that there is nothing they could do in the meantime to bring joy and meaning (significance) to their lives and that they could do nothing in the meantime but rest until they recovered or to do things of equal insignificant yielding value such as sleeping, eating, brushing teeth, or rambling about their life predicament.

I would realize that the person has done everything to make their lives significant and that none of that worked because that faculty that allows them to perceive their lives as significant is shut down and that they just have to wait then until it can be fully restored over time.

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TSBU
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Re: Joy and meaning does not come from our thinking; it is a different faculty

Post by TSBU » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:29 pm

1) Why are you telling what we already know? what do you want?
2) Think in what you want. And don't fuck other people, it's not their fault. Well, fuck them it is their fault, that may be good, if it doesn't give your life any joy, it will help you prevent more of this in the future.

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