What is a mystic?

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Greta
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Re: What is a mystic?

Post by Greta » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:21 am

Arising_uk wrote:I'll PM you.
Cheers AUK.
Language (and math) can only approximately model subjective experience.
Arising_uk wrote:How so? As I'd have thought language was exactly produced because of the subjective.
Language is produced via the subjective (as is probably math) but it very imperfectly models reality. So neither words nor mathematics truly describe what an apple tastes like, for instance.
Arising_uk wrote:Although I'm still puzzled about what people mean by 'subjective experience'? The best I get is 'what it's like to me' but other than how it 'feels' to me I'm at a loss as to what this means, as how can there be a 'like' to me given one cannot compare this 'like' with others or even with oneself.
I'm puzzled too; we all are, which is why it's such a hot philosophical topic. The ancients seemed to have boiled it down pretty well to "I am".
Arising_uk wrote:Again this depends what someone means by being 'a mystic'? If it means some kind of supernaturalism then I think him not such but if it means being in touch with the feeling of awe at Kant's Noumenon or Spinoza's 'God' then I think it probably fits his thoughts about such stuff.
Exactly. Secular mystics, I guess. No doubt some non-scientifically literate Indian mystics make some very deep observations about consciousness and reality too. Bear in mind that some small percentage of claims that we today call "supernatural" will be found to be real and just natural phenomena that we didn't understand.

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Lacewing
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Re: What is a mystic?

Post by Lacewing » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:36 am

Greta wrote: Still, the disconnect between the dual tendencies towards both love and suffering is still not comprehensible to me. It feels to me that there is something simple that everyone, or almost everyone, is missing that would make the nature of reality more understandable.
I think it's difficult to make sense of, from within its own limitations.

It might help to think of our experience in the same context as a movie. Packed full of adventure, intrigue, and tragedy... but then it ends, and the lights come on... and it was real in the sense of experiencing it, but it wasn't real in the sense of seriousness or permanence. It was just an amazingly entertaining experience. There was no real tragedy... everyone was simply part of the cast/involvement... and all of the production of it was seamlessly aligned and connected to produce images floating by on a cosmic screen. It's not as solid and dense as we are.

My "peak experiences" have appeared like this (in a sense). Everything was "in order" and acceptable just as it was. There were no questions. There was nothing to "know". Nothing was "serious". It appeared extraordinarily beautiful as a grand manifestation. Such is a very different seemingly "state of awareness" (and perspective). Our human rules and limitations mean nothing to "that". Neither does our hate, fear, ego, etc. Everything just "is", and it feels perfect as that. (It's more like everything is simply breathing.) We are the ones assigning all kinds of stuff to "this" that we are all continually making up as we go. There's nothing wrong with doing such -- but it might be useful to consider that "our stuff" likely does not apply beyond this. Perhaps that could make us more open to considering the potential and ease beyond our stuff, even while we're here.

Jaded Sage
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Re: What is a mystic?

Post by Jaded Sage » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:44 am

Would it be fair to say that mystics transcend the secular-spiritual distinction? That's how I view them anyway.

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