The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4798
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:26 pm

"a shotgun-wielding lunatic offering violence"

Nice... :|

Not much point in my being civil when even the good guys are dicks.

So: go fuck yourself.

'nuff said.

Walker
Posts: 6714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re:

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:14 pm

henry quirk wrote:"a shotgun-wielding lunatic offering violence"

Nice... :|

Not much point in my being civil when even the good guys are dicks.

So: go fuck yourself.

'nuff said.
Don’t let a little “mock terrorism” scare you off, Henry.

Walker
Posts: 6714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:17 pm

Obvious Leo wrote:
Walker wrote:The judgements expressed in your words show that you live in a violent and antagonistic world,
Actually I live like an eccentric old hippy in the middle of the Australian wilderness in a house which hasn't once been locked in 30 years. I know a lot of people but I don't know anybody who owns a gun, although admittedly if one of my acquaintances did own a gun it's not the sort of thing he would mention to other people. We have our small community of gun enthusiasts in my country but for the most part the gun culture which we read of in the US is utterly unfathomable. I don't live in a violent and antagonistic world but in the modern day it is possible to be aware of the fact that such a world exists beyond the boundaries of my hermit kingdom and I've certainly been around for long enough to know that I want no part of it.

Henry. Intruders on my estate would not be greeted by a shotgun-wielding lunatic offering violence but by a harmless old git offering fresh Arabica coffee and some of the homemade biscuits for which I am widely renowned. They would then be taken on a tour of my garden, for which I am also widely renowned. I fear NOBODY because I have never been given reason to.
Sounds like you’re out to pasture. Take it as a compliment, it’s proof that you are highly intelligent to have such control over your surroundings.

Sounds like you also get your info of U.S. life from the media.

I’ve seen that version, too.

It’s how Trump is doing a Reagan. He’s neutering the ongoing bias interpreting reality and conditioned by media, just like Reagan did.

Voters who are paying attention see the laughable news reporting put out by the media. And oh how the world is so willing to just lap it up.

Tell you what. Listen to me and you won’t be so gullible.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4798
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:28 pm

Walker,

Pretty much said everything I wanted to anyway...best the other side can come up with are insults...not seein' a point to furthering the thread when they don't give a flip what I have to say...for them 'guns are bad!'...they will not be moved (and neither will I).

Impasse.

User avatar
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8363
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

Re: The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:39 pm

Walker wrote:What's your cartoon elephant Hobbs?
This one. It's called "Motherhood" and I made it from clay.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2015-12-08 at 21.38.50.png
Screen Shot 2015-12-08 at 21.38.50.png (151.65 KiB) Viewed 1196 times

Walker
Posts: 6714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:59 pm

Roger that Henry. I’m about done too.

*

Hobbes. Excellent! I see the mother on her toes, in the way they walk.

And the flatfooted baby that has yet to learn the elephant way of walking.

That work is stand-alone.

About me? I’m the oldest of many. Multi-generations. I feel moved to write sometimes.

:)

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4798
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:03 pm

Missed this from up-thread...

"When you, Henry self-defended (killed? Wounded? Threatened?) yourself anainst the trespassers, was the Issue to protect your life?"

When three young men crawled through an open window in the middle of the night I could only assume they meant to rob me. I'm thinkin' if I didn't have the shotgun, they woulda done just that. I'm also thinkin' they woulda done me harm.

Unlike some folks: I'm not gonna offer unwelcome strangers a cuppa and a danish. I'd love to be in the middle of nowhere, but I'm not and if a body enters my home unnanounced, unwelcomed (through a friggin' window), chances are that body isn't lookin' to swap recipes.

For the record: the three left the way they came, in the condition they were in when I met them (alive and uninjured), and I got to keep my stuff, my health, my life.

marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re:

Post by marjoram_blues » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:10 pm

henry quirk wrote:Missed this from up-thread...

"When you, Henry self-defended (killed? Wounded? Threatened?) yourself anainst the trespassers, was the Issue to protect your life?"

When three young men crawled through an open window in the middle of the night I could only assume they meant to rob me. I'm thinkin' if I didn't have the shotgun, they woulda done just that. I'm also thinkin' they woulda done me harm.

Unlike some folks: I'm not gonna offer unwelcome strangers a cuppa and a danish. I'd love to be in the middle of nowhere, but I'm not and if a body enters my home unnanounced, unwelcomed (through a friggin' window), chances are that body isn't lookin' to swap recipes.

For the record: the three left the way they came, in the condition they were in when I met them (alive and uninjured), and I got to keep my stuff, my health, my life.
Hey Henry
Glad that your protection policy helped save the day. Must have been pretty scary.
However, I'm not sure that your - or Obvious Leo's - defence (or otherwise) strategies are typical of the rest of us. You are both pretty unique and privileged men at different ends of the world spectrum.

There is a middle ground, it's just finding it. I don't know much about gun regulation/registration in America. I would like to know what responsibility gun-sellers have in keeping tabs of their products, type and amount sold to particular customers. However, although this is part of the problem, there is more than one issue to deal with - related to possible prevention, as I discussed somewhere above...

I'm not sure that I can add anything more - it's a pity when threads deteriorate when sensible men resort to name-calling, amidst some shit-stirring types.

Ansiktsburk
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:03 pm
Location: Central Scandinavia

Re: Re:

Post by Ansiktsburk » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:36 pm

marjoram_blues wrote: :
I'm not sure that I can add anything more - it's a pity when threads deteriorate when sensible men resort to name-calling, amidst some shit-stirring types.
:)

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4798
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:44 pm

m_b,

It was scary in the 'everything becomes crystal sharp and time slows down' way, not the 'deer caught in headlights' way.

I have no doubt most Americans are not so level-headed in an emergency, but many are.

I can't speak to leo's circumstance, but I'm far from privilged...I live from client fee to client fee...my circumstances are 'modest'.

And you're right: gun violence is not an easily dissected issue...it's not just about the guns, or the easy access to guns...if folks could civilly talk about it, solutions could be found, but 'gun' as been political for a loooong time and no one listens, on either side. Both sides have legit concerns which don't get considered, and - like a stone in a pond - those legit concerns spread out to other concerns not so apparent. Me: I got no clue how to solve the problems or how to satisfy everyone, but lacking a greater solution doesn't negate my responsbility to myself and my family, so, I own a gun.

Yeah, in my younger days I was more than willing and able to shit stir and troll and indulge in jackassery. Now days, with limited time, energy, and interest, I prefer the civil approach. Hard to stay civil, however, when - as I say - even the good guys (like Leo and Hobbes) are dicks.

marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

privilege

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:15 am

henry quirk wrote:m_b,
It was scary in the 'everything becomes crystal sharp and time slows down' way, not the 'deer caught in headlights' way.
I have no doubt most Americans are not so level-headed in an emergency, but many are.

I can't speak to leo's circumstance, but I'm far from privilged...I live from client fee to client fee...my circumstances are 'modest'.

And you're right: gun violence is not an easily dissected issue...it's not just about the guns, or the easy access to guns...if folks could civilly talk about it, solutions could be found, but 'gun' as been political for a loooong time and no one listens, on either side. Both sides have legit concerns which don't get considered, and - like a stone in a pond - those legit concerns spread out to other concerns not so apparent. Me: I got no clue how to solve the problems or how to satisfy everyone, but lacking a greater solution doesn't negate my responsbility to myself and my family, so, I own a gun.
Yeah, in my younger days I was more than willing and able to shit stir and troll and indulge in jackassery. Now days, with limited time, energy, and interest, I prefer the civil approach. Hard to stay civil, however, when - as I say - even the good guys (like Leo and Hobbes) are dicks.
Off-topic, kinda:

I'd like to talk about being 'privileged'. Like poverty it is relative. In terms of being able to defend self and be self-sufficient, I would argue that you are most privileged. In that you have a special advantage available to you and anyone of similar means. A group of self-sufficients, if you like.
In addition, all of us here, have the freedom to write and wear whatever we like, without risk of death. ( unless some axe-wielding fundamentalist gets a hold of our whereabouts).

Compare this (to further understand the importance of privilege and how the lack of it can be the root of all hells):
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/d ... syria-iraq

Life under ISIS in Raqqa and Mosul: 'We're living in a giant prison'

Everyone is bombing Raqqa now, whether it’s Russia, the US, France or, most recently, Britain. But women living in Islamic State’s de facto capital have found a certain solace in the airstrikes, according to local activists. While Isis enforcers are sent scurrying by the bombardment, hiding among the city’s 1 million civilians, the women of Raqqa can enjoy a brief moment of freedom.
“You see them going to their balconies and windows, to breathe the fresh air and look at their city,” says Tim Ramadan, the pseudonym of an activist with the group Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently, who has remained in the city to document Isis’s atrocities at great risk to himself.
“The people get a brief opening of freedom,” he adds...

...Despite the mounting pressure on Isis in recent weeks, its grip on the two cities remains unrelenting, posing an intractable challenge to forces seeking to liberate them. Ousted from Sinjar in Iraq, on the defensive in Raqqa province, and facing a greater aerial bombardment, the militants have responded by tightening their grip on Raqqa and Mosul, further subjugating citizens who live under their yoke and barring civilians from leaving...

Exhausted but relieved to have escaped, Salah said: “If you are with them [Isis] they treat you well but if you are not they don’t treat you well. They treat you like second-class citizens.” With a haunted look, Salah described how his best friend Rabi’eh was executed by Isis, which filmed him as he was drowned in a cage...

Propaganda and indoctrination are everywhere. Images of medieval beheadings and hand chopping, characteristic of Isis’s law enforcement and which evoke such outrage abroad, are so commonplace in Raqqa that locals have been desensitised. When every minor infraction engenders a few dozen lashes in a public square, there is little that shocks people.
“Before, people used to close their eyes,” says Ramadan. “Isis has succeeded in making it normal.”

...“What happened in France was terrible,” he adds. “But we have these tragedies here every day, perhaps not on the same scale on a single day, but imagine living under Isis and in the long-term it’s much worse. And yet you have politicians in the west saying it will take 10 years to destroy Isis. Can you imagine living like this for another 10 years?”
Now, do you see what I mean by being 'privileged' ? And where the 'privilege' of bombing innocent victims of ISIS might lead...
We are desensitised to war; we are not seeing the whole picture. I was listening to a Labour politician discussing the state of the party. He blithely said that ' now the Syria debate is over, we can blah, blah, blah'. The debate was a fuckin' joke and related more to power points than thinking about the effects on others. Not to mention the blatant lies told and accepted. Disgusting.

Again, all we can do is protest. At least we can do that...without guns.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4798
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:41 pm

m_b,

I get what you're sayin' about privilige and I agree. My curcumstance is greatly fostered by my location. I'd like to think I'd still be the self-director and - sufficer I am now if I lived in a less hospitable place...*shrug*...but, who knows?

As for the current war (cuz that's what it is), it's driven not only by wahabbists trying to take over the world, but also by mercenary persons in power who see this war as a means to consolidate what they have (power) and to get more of it.

'Never let a crisis go to waste'.

if this war were only about a cancerous strain of islam, the strategies would be surgical, but the mercenary folks have to milk this thing for all it's worth, so the sledgehammer is clumsily applied instead. They'll keep this thing going for as long as they need to.

Elsewhere, leo wrote sumthin' like 'the internet and coca-cola will do more to stop the radicals than any military'...he's right, but that strategy will be blunted by the mercenary folks till the udders are dry...once 'terrorism' is depleted as a method of lining pockets, and making names, then the scalpel will be applied, and watch how quickly sympathies for ISIS and the like dry up. Quickest way to win a heart is to feed it, protect it, entertain it.

The powers that be aren't ready to do that yet.

marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

privilege and the war-makers

Post by marjoram_blues » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:44 pm

henry quirk wrote:m_b,

I get what you're sayin' about privilige and I agree. My curcumstance is greatly fostered by my location. I'd like to think I'd still be the self-director and - sufficer I am now if I lived in a less hospitable place...*shrug*...but, who knows?

As for the current war (cuz that's what it is), it's driven not only by wahabbists trying to take over the world, but also by mercenary persons in power who see this war as a means to consolidate what they have (power) and to get more of it.
'Never let a crisis go to waste'.

if this war were only about a cancerous strain of islam, the strategies would be surgical, but the mercenary folks have to milk this thing for all it's worth, so the sledgehammer is clumsily applied instead. They'll keep this thing going for as long as they need to.

Elsewhere, leo wrote sumthin' like 'the internet and coca-cola will do more to stop the radicals than any military'...he's right, but that strategy will be blunted by the mercenary folks till the udders are dry...once 'terrorism' is depleted as a method of lining pockets, and making names, then the scalpel will be applied, and watch how quickly sympathies for ISIS and the like dry up. Quickest way to win a heart is to feed it, protect it, entertain it.
The powers that be aren't ready to do that yet.
Henry, appreciate your careful and considered response. I will keep this brief, bearing in mind that the subject of war is complex and really not the main concern of this thread. Also, I am no expert in such matters !

[ I'm not overfond of the cancer analogy. I also dislike the terminology used to describe the death of a cancer sufferer as someone who has lost a long battle - but that's another story }

I don't agree that any Ideology can be defeated by purely physical removal, whether or no it can be termed 'surgical'. Physical attacks and bombs are harmful agents with uncertain beneficial long-term outcomes ( except, as you say, to the powerful gun and bomb brokers). This is not the same as in hospital treatments, where the aim is to improve someone's physical condition. No profit involved ( at least not in the NHS so far).

This is MEGA MENTAL.

I doubt that 'terrorism' will ever be depleted; in fact, quite the opposite with the heightened fear-mongering taking place. I won't even mention Trump's ugly rhetoric.

For all their screams against modernism, islamic extremists use the internet and 'coke' to great effect.
I can't see how radical idealism can ever be fully stopped; especially if deeply rooted in religious texts. That needs to be seriously addressed within a more holistic approach. Change will never happen without brave and objective discussions. Even then...some are bound to scupper it.

Cameron's talk of 'cutting off the head of the snake' is just so much rubbish. His depiction of parliamentarians voting against the Syrian war as 'terrorist sympathisers' is downright dangerous.
We are being desensitised to the lies that politicians tell. They provide blatantly false information as support for a war; bomb-laden planes took off within hours of a farcical debate (outcome already known). A day, or so, later, they admit they were wrong - and we are supposed to be OK with that? Isn't this criminal behaviour ?

Enough already. I'll leave such a debate to others, another time, another place.
Thanks for listening to my struggling thought process...

The Inglorious One
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

Post by The Inglorious One » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:40 am

Anyone for a different kind of Trivial Pursuit?

marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: The Right to bear arms for the purpose of domestic resistance.

Post by marjoram_blues » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:12 am

The Inglorious One wrote:Anyone for a different kind of Trivial Pursuit?
I've never played Trivial Pursuit but I believe there are 6 categories to choose from.
Feel free to ask some 'dumbed-down' questions from:

1. Geography
2. Entertainment
3. History
4. Arts and Literature
5. Science and Nature
6. Sport and Leisure

Have fun - I'm off partying elsewhere...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests