Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

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Keith Hancock
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Keith Hancock » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:02 pm

A Sufi Master told those of us who were having difficulty with being human that although we are mainly spiritual the human part of us still has human responsibilities and duties to which we have to attend without becoming attached to the point of distraction from reality.

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:32 am

As other posters here have pointed out, there can be value and necessity in learning/crafting one's skill/art in being able to vibrate diversely. :D It's kind of like a game... where a person can get farther and see more if they have practiced and mastered many "languages" and "dances". These can all be very real aspects of ourselves. But I've struggled with this too, David. Partly (I think now) because I didn't realize how many aspects of myself I could discover and embrace and practice and master. I wasn't seeing how multi-dimensional I could be. I spent years downplaying my "gifts/strengths" in all areas of my life because I knew they would overwhelm (or not be understood by) the people I was with... and I didn't want to rock the boat (which I was brought up not to do).

I'm making up for lost time now. :lol: I've realized that it makes the most sense and works BEST for me to be as fully myself as I can be, as diversely as I can be, geared toward each situation I am in. Sort of like that's the whole point of me being here. I can do my best to dance with each circumstance well, to receive and give with as much clarity as possible... and then move on (hopefully evolving/expanding along the way). This may simply be a stage on which to practice/develop ones character/energy... and to surprise even ourselves in who we think we are.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:09 am

Keith Hancock wrote:A Sufi Master told those of us who were having difficulty with being human that although we are mainly spiritual the human part of us still has human responsibilities and duties to which we have to attend without becoming attached to the point of distraction from reality.
There is so much lost when one pursues detachment. And I think two negative things concerning those that do so. The first is a sort of cowardice; detachment allows one to avoid difficult and often important (to others) situations that you could be of help with were you not so detached. The second is sort of delusional state where you have convinced yourself that you have achieved detachment but are in reality simply avoiding and masking the real human that wants to be concerned with the world. Instead what you have done is to create an internal world of safety that is simply imagined. This is a childlike state taken on by the abused.

The spiritual/material dichotomy is an utterly false one. Those who pursue it and up brain-dead and useless fooling themselves concerning their own worth

At the moment I am hurting bad. This will be the first summer for the 20 years of his life that I wlll not get to spend with my son. He now has a job 300 miles away and lives at his home where I cannot be. I cherish my limited time with him and this is going down hard on me. Now, to avoid this pain, I could have learned detachment. I could have learned that the feelings for my son are merely born of hormones and neurones, and can be ignored with effort. Yet, what would I have lost? 20 years of that love, is worth it for the pain that I now have, and will have for some time to come.
Being a human is about integrating your self; spiritual, corporeal, intellectual, aspirational ad infinitem. Enlightenment is not a thing to be achieved by favouring one thing over the other. Enlightenment is not a result at all; it is a process: in which all aspects of the self are not denied but embraced. Spiritualism and detachment is a short path empty path with only death at its end, in which the walker wears mirrored blinkers where he can see only himself, and not the wide and interesting world around us.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:12 am

Lacewing wrote:As other posters here have pointed out, there can be value and necessity in learning/crafting one's skill/art in being able to vibrate diversely. :D It's kind of like a game... where a person can get farther and see more if they have practiced and mastered many "languages" and "dances". These can all be very real aspects of ourselves. But I've struggled with this too, David. Partly (I think now) because I didn't realize how many aspects of myself I could discover and embrace and practice and master. I wasn't seeing how multi-dimensional I could be. I spent years downplaying my "gifts/strengths" in all areas of my life because I knew they would overwhelm (or not be understood by) the people I was with... and I didn't want to rock the boat (which I was brought up not to do).

I'm making up for lost time now. :lol: I've realized that it makes the most sense and works BEST for me to be as fully myself as I can be, as diversely as I can be, geared toward each situation I am in. Sort of like that's the whole point of me being here. I can do my best to dance with each circumstance well, to receive and give with as much clarity as possible... and then move on (hopefully evolving/expanding along the way). This may simply be a stage on which to practice/develop ones character/energy... and to surprise even ourselves in who we think we are.
So how does this volteface manifest itself in reality. How, exactly, do you live your life differently. In what way do you now rick people's boats?

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:26 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: So how does this volteface manifest itself in reality. How, exactly, do you live your life differently. In what way do you now rock people's boats?
Well it's mainly about changing my state of mind... my own boat... my own experience... and my own way of looking at things. But in rocking my own boat, I can see that it can rock others as well -- because we're all in the same stuff, and we are affected by each other.

What I "do" differently now is to trust and voice (as responsibly and respectfully as possible) MORE of the impressions/insights/ponderings that seem to come into my particular perspective... even though they might challenge what we think we know. It doesn't seem to me that this physical level is the only level. The more I practice and utilize this potential, the more seems to be accessible... like finding the opening of a cosmic valve that is flowing freely... which is in stark contrast to the states of resistance and suppression that we humans seem so much more familiar with. It has been fascinating for me to experience and to consider the implications of it. (Yet, I don't want to distort it with too much human definition.)

Now, instead of thinking that I must shield myself and others from the discomfort, uncertainty, fear, or even terror of stepping beyond what's familiar or common in our thinking... I trust that we all have developed the filters we need to see or ignore in whatever way is of use to us and our experience. So, from that, I've decided that I am FREE TO FLY and BE SEEN doing it! :D That has changed much for me (even though this life is still very intoxicating at times). It has felt like becoming more aware of, and integrated into, a flow that's much bigger than ones little self. Once the terror of that subsides, it's really quite a relief... as well as exhilarating. It's not so limited and serious.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:51 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: So how does this volteface manifest itself in reality. How, exactly, do you live your life differently. In what way do you now rock people's boats?
Well it's mainly about changing my state of mind... my own boat... my own experience... and my own way of looking at things. But in rocking my own boat, I can see that it can rock others as well -- because we're all in the same stuff, and we are affected by each other.

What I "do" differently now is to trust and voice (as responsibly and respectfully as possible) MORE of the impressions/insights/ponderings that seem to come into my particular perspective... even though they might challenge what we think we know. It doesn't seem to me that this physical level is the only level. The more I practice and utilize this potential, the more seems to be accessible... like finding the opening of a cosmic valve that is flowing freely... which is in stark contrast to the states of resistance and suppression that we humans seem so much more familiar with. It has been fascinating for me to experience and to consider the implications of it. (Yet, I don't want to distort it with too much human definition.)

Now, instead of thinking that I must shield myself and others from the discomfort, uncertainty, fear, or even terror of stepping beyond what's familiar or common in our thinking... I trust that we all have developed the filters we need to see or ignore in whatever way is of use to us and our experience. So, from that, I've decided that I am FREE TO FLY and BE SEEN doing it! :D That has changed much for me (even though this life is still very intoxicating at times). It has felt like becoming more aware of, and integrated into, a flow that's much bigger than ones little self. Once the terror of that subsides, it's really quite a relief... as well as exhilarating. It's not so limited and serious.
So its really all about you,eh?
Just one more logic step and then you know it is only about you; that the assumed "bigger than yourself" thingy, is just all in your own head. But that is okay. Must people don't get out of this state. But when you look deep into the oneness of it all, I mean really deep, what you see is yourself looking back at you, and your inevitable mortality. You will have penetrated the truth.
Passing the other side is angst ridden. But if you live through the ennui, as you shall, then you will be empowered by the truth of your meaninglessness. We'll all be dead in a 100 years, and knowing that only REALLY knowing that allows you to live your life freely. Right now you are not free to fly, you are still cluttered with the inertia of everything and every one around you. The 'flow" is what the universe wants, or what you think it wants. He will take you to places you never chose. Not until, that is, that you see yourself generating the myth of your part in a universe, when in reality you are a unit on your own box.

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:51 pm

Hobbes' Choice, I think you are projecting your ideas onto me. You've read what I wrote, and assigned limits you think I have, or what you think I don't know.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: So its really all about you,eh?
Well it is and it isn't. Both are at work. Do you see it any differently for yourself?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Just one more logic step and then you know it is only about you; that the assumed "bigger than yourself" thingy, is just all in your own head.

How do you know where a "being" ends?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:But that is okay. Must people don't get out of this state.
What state? You have no clue what state I'm in. It would be much more accurate to say that I try to avoid states. A state means settled and unmoving, yes?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:But when you look deep into the oneness of it all, I mean really deep, what you see is yourself looking back at you, and your inevitable mortality.
There are many things one can see. Yes, one of those things can be yourself looking back at you. And another thing might be inevitable mortality. And another thing might be nothing at all because there is no human definition for it.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: You will have penetrated the truth.
Do you think there is some particular "truth" and that it can be "known"? I don't.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Passing the other side is angst ridden. But if you live through the ennui, as you shall, then you will be empowered by the truth of your meaninglessness.
I don't think we'll be "empowered" by it... we'll just be free of this (all of the human constructs). And being free of constructs is just free. It's beyond our definitions. I don't think it has a human story.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: We'll all be dead in a 100 years, and knowing that only REALLY knowing that allows you to live your life freely.
Yes, I'm at peace with that. I treasure this experience while it is. I don't need ideas of anything that follows it. I don't need more ideas of "me". And I don't need to "know".
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Right now you are not free to fly, you are still cluttered with the inertia of everything and every one around you.
I am both. Naturally, as long as I'm here, I am confined and tossed about by human constructs. But that's just a dance... not necessarily a bad one. I am also able to fly free of various constructs. It's not all or nothing, you know. Aren't there degrees to everything? I do not have to be totally convinced or contained by some constructs. And I think that's one of the fascinations in being here: to explore beyond the obvious intoxication. Whether... as you might say... that's all in my own head or on some universal level... who cares? It's what my experience is... and anything that feels like expansion and freedom can be preferable to contraction, density, enslavement, and fear.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:The 'flow" is what the universe wants, or what you think it wants.

I don't think the universe "wants" anything. I think it just is.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:He will take you to places you never chose.
Who/what is this "he", and why is it a "he"?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Not until, that is, that you see yourself generating the myth of your part in a universe, when in reality you are a unit on your own box.
Perhaps the myth you are speaking of is your own. I don't think I have a myth. I don't think I'm trying to define all-that-is... or "me"... or "my part in it". I'm not claiming what it is or how it works. I don't even think there's an "it". Do you think you know?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:43 pm

Lacewing wrote:.. I don't think I have a myth. I don't think I'm trying to define all-that-is... or "me"... or "my part in it". I'm not claiming what it is or how it works. I don't even think there's an "it". Do you think you know?
You are not receiving.

You think you are part of something bigger than yourself, but your reflections seem to be nothing more than the inner working of your wishful mind. I don't think you want to know more.

How do I know when a being ends?-duh!

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:18 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: You are not receiving.

You think you are part of something bigger than yourself, but your reflections seem to be nothing more than the inner working of your wishful mind. I don't think you want to know more.
Your stuff.

Instead of analyzing what you think I think, and who you think I am, why don't you answer the questions I posed to you?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:27 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: You are not receiving.

You think you are part of something bigger than yourself, but your reflections seem to be nothing more than the inner working of your wishful mind. I don't think you want to know more.
Your stuff.

Instead of analyzing what you think I think, and who you think I am, why don't you answer the questions I posed to you?
You posed questions?

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:34 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: You posed questions?
Yep... you must not be receiving. :wink:

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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:03 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: You posed questions?
Yep... you must not be receiving. :wink:
Nope. I know rhetorical emptiness masquerading as questions. I saw no reason to answer them, nor did I think you could take the answers

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Lacewing
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Re: Is it possible to be different in a world of different people?

Post by Lacewing » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:15 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: I know rhetorical emptiness masquerading as questions. I saw no reason to answer them, nor did I think you could take the answers
Oh please, you're not just rude, you're ridiculous. I don't ask questions just for the heck of it. I was courteous enough to respond to your question in the first place -- only to have you throw your monkey shit at me. Are you capable of answering questions without making assumptions and hurling insults about the person you're talking to?

If you're going to try and judge me and make false assumptions, you should be willing to answer my responses to you... instead of side-stepping and throwing more at me. Such behavior appears very shallow and cowardly... which surely you are not?

Here, for your convenience, I'll repeat and bold the questions that I'd like your honest responses to. Don't include ME in your answers, because I have nothing to do with your stuff. But I'm listening if you have something interesting to say about your own views.
. . . . .
Hobbes' Choice wrote: So its really all about you,eh?
"Well it is and it isn't. Both are at work. Do you see it any differently for yourself?" In other words, HC, in your own view, is it, or is it not, all about YOU?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Just one more logic step and then you know it is only about you; that the assumed "bigger than yourself" thingy, is just all in your own head.

"How do you know where a "being" ends?" In other words, do you think that all that we are is contained in this human body?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:But that is okay. Must people don't get out of this state.
"What state?" Please explain what state you think there is.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: You will have penetrated the truth.
"Do you think there is some particular "truth" and that it can be "known"?" Please explain.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:He will take you to places you never chose.
"Who/what is this "he", and why is it a "he"?" Please explain.

"I'm not claiming what it is or how it works. Do you think you know?" Please answer.
. . . . .
Don't worry as to whether I can take your answers, HC. 8) I think the question is whether you can give them... or if what you've shown is really all you're about.

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