Time in eternity

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Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

I know it's all happened, and still exists on the dead universal hard-drive as a memory in an infinite-slices, book-page, nonsensical dimension of happening all at once. It's the choosing and watching process you can't explain.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime »

Skip wrote:I know it's all happened, and still exists on the dead universal hard-drive as a memory in an infinite-slices, book-page, nonsensical dimension of happening all at once. It's the choosing and watching process you can't explain.
I think you make a valid point, Skip. As its Doc's baby, though (I'm of the endless time bent, not timelessness), I'll leave that to him.
Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

Sure, i'll leave it to him, as well. Atheists get oblivion anyway; it's not multiple choice.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime »

Skip wrote:Sure, i'll leave it to him, as well. Atheists get oblivion anyway; it's not multiple choice.
Actually, I just had a thought, if neither of you mind.

I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that, when listening to music, a lot is going on. So, and to enjoy it in a new way, I will focus on different parts of the music on different listenings. Sometimes I'll focus on the beat, sometimes the melody, sometimes on a particular instrument, or vocals, if they are present. Granted its a limited version of the focus that would be nessesary to slice and dice time and space, but I can imagine it might be similar. Sound plausible?
__________________________

PS. Antinatalists certainly understand oblivion, both before and after life. But even Dawkins, the uncrowned king of New Atheism, doesn't. He thinks there are trillions of unborn children that are unlucky not to have come into existence, and that those who are born to experience life, are the lucky few billion.

Seriously, I'm paraphrasing him, as I don't have the quote in front of me, but he said that in one of his books. It shows he doesn't understand oblivion before life, only after the fact. There is no one in oblivion sitting around, waiting anxiously to be born. Which is why his statement is silly.

Anyways, it's a subject dear to my heart, but way off topic here.
Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

Just shows the universality of silliness.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime »

Indeed it does. What did you think of the first bit, about the music? Sound okay? (Pardon the pun. Totally unintentional lol!)
Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

Sure. We do something like that with movies, sometimes. Like, Life Of Brian - say, today we'll watch for shoe metaphors. Or colour-changes in the scenery. Or try to speak in synch with the best monologues. (I still don't have all the lyrics, but that's down to old neurons.)

It's a variation on mindfulness, isn't it? Paying attention on purpose? Gives life a little more texture.
thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc »

Skip wrote:I know it's all happened, and still exists on the dead universal hard-drive as a memory in an infinite-slices, book-page, nonsensical dimension of happening all at once. It's the choosing and watching process you can't explain.
I know some will call it a cop-out, but there are some things that I have not speculated on, yet, and I'm not sure how much it really matters. It's all a nice dialogue, but it doesn't settle anything, I'll find out for sure when I get there. There are some people who seem to think that they have to have all the answers before they will believe, but I don't think we need to have all the answers first. Part of having faith, is trusting that things will be for the best. On another post somewhere I stated that one thing that irks me is people who say they "know" something when it really is something they "believe" and the details about the afterlife, are mostly guesswork. That there is an afterlife is one of the details that was stated in the Bible, and that is usually the first step in faith, to believe that there is truth in the Bible. as I have stated elsewhere the truth of the Bible is not in the literal reading of the details, but in the meaning of the stories.

Skip has stated that he believes that Atheists get oblivion, that they have already chosen, but what if there is no choice, what if it's up to the will of God and we must have faith that God's choice will be the best for each soul. The other thing is that Skip keeps bringing time into eternity, but we need to remember we are discussion my version of Heaven where there is no time, if you wish to speculate on another version, please do so, but be clear what the parameters are first.
thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc »

Skip wrote:Sure. We do something like that with movies, sometimes. Like, Life Of Brian - say, today we'll watch for shoe metaphors. Or colour-changes in the scenery. Or try to speak in synch with the best monologues. (I still don't have all the lyrics, but that's down to old neurons.)

It's a variation on mindfulness, isn't it? Paying attention on purpose? Gives life a little more texture.
Over the years I have come to the conclusion that I observe things better than most people, I'm not claiming to be Sherlock Holmes, even though everyone thinks they are, but years ago I did some oil painting, even took a college level course in it. As a result I had to look at a scene and actually see the colors and textures in order to put them on canvas, and had to learn to ignore what I wanted to see or any preconceived notions of what things looked like. For example, how many times will someone color a tree and make the trunk brown? I live in the woods and the tree trunks are not brown, they are grey. In fact I notice a grey squirrel on the tree and it is just about the same color as the tree. I have gotten into arguments with people about what things looked like, and it seems that some people just cant' see, or won't see, what is in front of them. TV and the movies are good examples of people seeing what they expect to see, how many people understand that the weatherman on the TV is actually standing in front of a green screen with nothing on it, he moves his hands according to what he sees on a monitor that is just out of frame.
Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

What we'll see is what we'll get?

You hope the stories are true and that you'll be rewarded for believing them without proof (and i'll get demerits - KP or the aisle seat or something for doubting them). Pascal had the same idea, and it makes a kind of sense. For someone who can think that way. For me, who cannot think that way, faith isn't an option.

Why make claims you can't substantiate? Why be surprised if you're called on them?

As for my dwelling on the time thing, look at the little overhead box.
how many people understand that the weatherman on the TV is actually standing in front of a green screen with nothing on it, he moves his hands according to what he sees on a monitor that is just out of frame.
That's a great analogy of church.

The cedar outside my window is greeny-brown. The dogwood is reddy-brown; the willow is browny-yellow. Poor kids' crayon packs only had 8 colours. So they got stuck with brown tree-trunks, brown shoes, brown dogs. Those early crayons leave a deep impression.
thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc »

Skip wrote: The cedar outside my window is greeny-brown. The dogwood is reddy-brown; the willow is browny-yellow. Poor kids' crayon packs only had 8 colours. So they got stuck with brown tree-trunks, brown shoes, brown dogs. Those early crayons leave a deep impression.

I should have specified that I live in a hardwood forest, mostly Oaks and a few Maples, and yes I agree there are different trees with different color trunks. My point was that the trunk will usually be colored brown without actually looking at the tree that is being depicted.
thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc »

Skip wrote:
how many people understand that the weatherman on the TV is actually standing in front of a green screen with nothing on it, he moves his hands according to what he sees on a monitor that is just out of frame.
That's a great analogy of church.
Could you elaborate on this just a bit, I'm not sure I get what you mean.
Skip
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip »

thedoc wrote:
Skip wrote:
how many people understand that the weatherman on the TV is actually standing in front of a green screen with nothing on it, he moves his hands according to what he sees on a monitor that is just out of frame.
That's a great analogy of church.
Could you elaborate on this just a bit, I'm not sure I get what you mean.
Wizard of Oz syndrome. Motivated people can suspend a lot of disbelief; can see what's not there if someone with sufficient persuasive power tells them with enough authority that it is there.
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