Time in eternity

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Dalek Prime
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Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed May 13, 2015 4:23 pm

There are two definitions of the eternal; endless time, and timelessness. Assuming the latter, how do you suppose a ceasium clock would behave in this environment ie. Would the caesium continue on it's half-life, marking the seconds, or would it just sit there in a stasis?

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Rilx
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Rilx » Wed May 13, 2015 9:24 pm

Marking the seconds of timelessness? You probably posted an unfinished thought?

thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc » Wed May 13, 2015 10:34 pm

There would be no seconds to mark, and the caesium would experience all it's half-lives together. So it wouldn't just sit there in stasis, but would be seen as going through all it's states when someone observes it.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed May 13, 2015 11:18 pm

Rilx wrote:Marking the seconds of timelessness? You probably posted an unfinished thought?
No, it's a carry over from the "Congratulations!" thread. I'm just pondering the implications of what it might be like to observe phenomena in a hypothetical plane with no time (or all time at once). Yes, it's a bizarre notion to us, but it's what many theists believe to be the state of God and his kingdom.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip » Sun May 17, 2015 5:32 am

Eternity, after time ends: everything that ever existed just sits there, motionless, unchanging, frozen in the last moment of time.
Before time began, there was nothing.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon May 18, 2015 6:15 am

It sounds more like one would be observing (observation being applicable, of course) something more akin to what I would imagine a heat death of the universe, Skip, than what Doc was saying, that Eternity encompasses all time at once. Yours sounds more like a stasis, one point in time, frozen. Please correct me if I've misunderstood. I do see that you hint at everything, so perhaps I have.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip » Mon May 18, 2015 6:26 am

I have no frickin clue what any of us is talking about.

Do you? Really?

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon May 18, 2015 9:15 pm

Skip wrote:I have no frickin clue what any of us is talking about.

Do you? Really?
Here I do, yes. If time is frozen, as you say, what then is so great about God's eternal kingdom, if that's all it is? Sitting there, unmoving? Anyways, relax. This was an offshoot of another thread, and it seems to be dying a slow death.

thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc » Mon May 18, 2015 11:25 pm

Dalek Prime wrote: Here I do, yes. If time is frozen, as you say, what then is so great about God's eternal kingdom, if that's all it is? Sitting there, unmoving? Anyways, relax. This was an offshoot of another thread, and it seems to be dying a slow death.
I believe this illustrates the misunderstanding, time is not frozen, there simply is no time at all. Everything is not just sitting there unmoving, but the whole range of activity would happen at once. For example you could watch a baseball game and the whole game would happen, and you could focus in on part, or all as you choose. The same would apply for everything, you could witness the Universe from beginning to end or view any part of it you wish. When everything is happening at once, you can experience whatever you choose, or none at all, if you choose.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon May 18, 2015 11:28 pm

thedoc wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote: Here I do, yes. If time is frozen, as you say, what then is so great about God's eternal kingdom, if that's all it is? Sitting there, unmoving? Anyways, relax. This was an offshoot of another thread, and it seems to be dying a slow death.
I believe this illustrates the misunderstanding, time is not frozen, there simply is no time at all. Everything is not just sitting there unmoving, but the whole range of activity would happen at once. For example you could watch a baseball game and the whole game would happen, and you could focus in on part, or all as you choose. The same would apply for everything, you could witness the Universe from beginning to end or view any part of it you wish. When everything is happening at once, you can experience whatever you choose, or none at all, if you choose.
I get what you're saying, Doc. I was just pointing out the consequences of Skip's version.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Skip » Mon May 18, 2015 11:31 pm

This was an offshoot of another thread, and it seems to be dying a slow death.
Oddly, I wasn't concerned about God's eternal kingdom. But my brother used to hypothesize (when he was young; I guess you do less of that as you approach the actual moment) that the last moment you experience at death is your eternity - since, we experience past time as memory and of course, there is no more memory to put in the perspective of.
Everything is not just sitting there unmoving, but the whole range of activity would happen at once. For example you could watch a baseball game and the whole game would happen, and you could focus in on part, or all as you choose.
But I assume nothing new could happen. You could watch the story of a defunct universe, all at once. Like your life flashing before your eyes as you drown, only instantaneously and concurrently. I'm glad we won't have neurons anymore, 'cos trying to process that stuff would burn them out in no time!

What I still don't get is the mechanism of choosing what to concentrate on. How? Unless your consciousness still has sequence, all of your choices are made and carried at the same time, so you always have to watch everything.

thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc » Tue May 19, 2015 12:14 am

Skip wrote:
This was an offshoot of another thread, and it seems to be dying a slow death.
Oddly, I wasn't concerned about God's eternal kingdom. But my brother used to hypothesize (when he was young; I guess you do less of that as you approach the actual moment) that the last moment you experience at death is your eternity - since, we experience past time as memory and of course, there is no more memory to put in the perspective of.
Everything is not just sitting there unmoving, but the whole range of activity would happen at once. For example you could watch a baseball game and the whole game would happen, and you could focus in on part, or all as you choose.
But I assume nothing new could happen. You could watch the story of a defunct universe, all at once. Like your life flashing before your eyes as you drown, only instantaneously and concurrently. I'm glad we won't have neurons anymore, 'cos trying to process that stuff would burn them out in no time!

What I still don't get is the mechanism of choosing what to concentrate on. How? Unless your consciousness still has sequence, all of your choices are made and carried at the same time, so you always have to watch everything.
I suppose that would be a good question, but not having died yet, I really can't answer, but I can relate what I imagine it to be like. As far as choosing which moment in time to witness, I can only guess that if there is a particular favorite you could experience it as often as you like. As far as the future of time is concerned, if you limit your experiences to those of your lifetime, that's one thing. But I would allow that God could make all of time available to access in eternity.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue May 19, 2015 12:27 am

Skip made a good point Doc. Even with eternity comprising the lifespan of the universe, could anything new happen? Is it all viewable, like a TV show, and we're just sitting and channel surfing? Can we make or do anything new that hasn't already happened in it's lifespan? Interesting question.

thedoc
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Re: Time in eternity

Post by thedoc » Tue May 19, 2015 1:19 am

Dalek Prime wrote:Skip made a good point Doc. Even with eternity comprising the lifespan of the universe, could anything new happen? Is it all viewable, like a TV show, and we're just sitting and channel surfing? Can we make or do anything new that hasn't already happened in it's lifespan? Interesting question.
But since each human being has only experienced a very small portion of that reality, there is a lot left to see, and it might take an eternity to really grasp and understand it all, or even just a small part of it. Or do you just want to close your eyes (figuratively speaking) and sleep, I would guess that is an option for some who choose it.

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Re: Time in eternity

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue May 19, 2015 1:24 am

thedoc wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:Skip made a good point Doc. Even with eternity comprising the lifespan of the universe, could anything new happen? Is it all viewable, like a TV show, and we're just sitting and channel surfing? Can we make or do anything new that hasn't already happened in it's lifespan? Interesting question.
But since each human being has only experienced a very small portion of that reality, there is a lot left to see, and it might take an eternity to really grasp and understand it all, of even just a small part of it. Or do you just want to close your eyes (figuratively speaking) and sleep, I would guess that is an option for some who choose it.
That would be my option. Shutting down completely. Oblivion. Not to say your version doesn't hold my imagination. But Infinity scares me Doc. Always has. And eternity looks too close to it for my liking.

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