My Final and Most Convincing Argument for Hedonism

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

Survival mechanisms have much to do with feelings' sphere, like fear. Paranoia is a disturb of personhood, Stalin was paranoic, Mao was paranoic, Erode il Grande was paranoic, Commodo was paranoic, Hitler Caesars Mary the bloody Pilato
They certainly were not vulnerable.

Positive in what sense? Sure fear has a negative polarity, but on paper it's positive because it keeps you safe.

[David Handeye]

In fact. Fear is positive, keeps you safe. Not paranoia, it makes you see enemies where there aren't.

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

In fact. Fear is positive, keeps you safe. Not paranoia, it makes you see enemies where there aren't.

Don't be so sure. 9/11 times their paranoia is justified. In the end, they turn out to be enemies after all.

[MozartLink]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I already did explain my personal thoughts because I explained how pleasure is the only good thing about me and my life through my hedonistic arguments. As for the electric shock treatment, I would have to actually replace that term with TMS which would be a much safer form of treatment. This is a form of magnetic stimulation is what I am considering having done on me if my anhedonia does not seem to recover.

When a person is depressed, he/she might say to his/herself in a depressive mood (tonality) that his/her life is still good and worth living. He/she might very well continue on to pursue his/her dreams and goals in life even while still feeling depressed. But those good perceptions are all decoys without our pleasure as I've said before. The person's depression has shut down his/her genuine good perceptions in life. But he/she is now doing nothing more than just simply saying to his/herself that his/her life is still good and worth living anyway and just forcing his/herself to live life anyway. So now this person is just simply being fooled by words and phrases alone when there is no genuine good perception at all from those words and phrases while he/she is in a state of depression.

Not at all personal. You seem to be projecting upon others, whilst keeping the maximal distance away from yourself. Exactly the opposite of what I asked, I asked for your personal thoughts and machinations. Try again.
Try more like a diary this time. I suspect you are female, so a diary should be no problem for you.

Speaking of females and electro-shock therapy...A long time ago I was at a mental hospital and there was a girl a few doors down from me who they thought was delusional. They were giving her electro-shock therapy everyday so when she came out I tried to be nice to her and comfort her, and befriend her. Of course she spat in my face and called me rude and hateful things, insulting me and saying very hurtful things to me. These weren't the ramblings of an insane woman, but the hurtful things she said were very sane and collected sounding, she knew very well I was a fellow patient trying to be nice to her, and she could care less, as long as she made me feel more like shit, more worthless that I already did. At that moment I knew her shock therapy was the result of Divine Karma. That very night, when her screams woke me up in the middle of the night, I was no longer bothered. I was incredibly aroused, and at the same time, couldn't stop laughing, it was so humorous actually. Whenever I think about it I think about the scene where Joker does shock therapy to the Robin and it makes me laugh.

Funny as it is, did it ever cure her from her delusions? Absolutely not. It wasn't like she was even that suicidal, or cut up her body like marilyn manson, they just thought her delusional. You know if that's all it takes for shock-therapy, I firmly believe that most religious tards (especially jihadists and phobic christians) could benefit from some "shock-therapy" as well. Lol!

I am actually a male. I will speak a brief statement though about my personal life. But after that, then I will get back to the deep philosophical discussion since this is a philosophy forum after all:

I wanted to be a composer through my pure pleasure alone and create dark, tragic, powerful, and good compositions through my pure pleasure alone and through the pleasure in tragic dark, gothic, etc. things. Feelings of anhedonia and suffering are inferior and loathsome to me and I will never choose to embrace or give credit to them. So I have given up being a composer for now only until my full pleasure returns since that is the only thing that would make me, my life, and my composing dream good.

Now back to the philosophical discussion:

Now this is my line of logic I have used to come to the conclusion that pleasure and suffering are the only true good and bad things in life. First off, I will state my original line of logic and then use an analogue (comparison). I have first said that everything in life besides pleasure and suffering are all different since they are all obviously different things. But they are all the same in the sense that they feel neither pleasant nor unpleasant. So this would mean that good and bad things in life aside from our pleasure and suffering, these things are no different than any other neutral object or any other neutral part of our brains such as the parts of our brains that make us move, blink, breathe, etc. in the sense that they all neither feel pleasant nor unpleasant. So this would make those good and bad things in life the neutral (fake) version of good and bad. But our pleasure and suffering are the only truly unique things in life from everything else since they are the only things that feel pleasant and unpleasant. Therefore, pleasure and suffering would have to be the true version of good and bad since everything else in life is the neutral (fake) version of good and bad.

So now, onto the analogue (comparison). I am going to list some colors here and then explain my analogue based on those colors. I have also made up two completely new invented colors of my own. Green and blue are the good and bad value judgments while everything in life besides pleasure and suffering are all different colors.

Green=good
Blue=bad
Grey=neutral
Plaft=pleasure
Swolf=suffering
All other colors=everything else in life besides pleasure and suffering

All other colors besides plaft and swolf are all different since they are all obviously different colors. But they are all the same in the sense that they are not tinted in the colors plaft and swolf. In other words, they do not have any feeling of pleasure or suffering to them. So this would mean that green and blue combined with their non-plaft and non-swolf tint are no different than the color grey and its non-plaft and non-swolf tint in the sense that they all don't have a plaft or swolf tint. So this would make green and blue the color grey. But only in the sense that they all don't have a plaft or swolf tint to them. Therefore, since green and blue would be no different than grey in this sense, then green and blue would actually be a version of grey in this sense. But plaft and swolf are the only truly unique things in life from all other colors since they are the only colors that are plaft and swolf. Therefore, plaft and swolf would have to be the true version of green and blue since all other green and blue things in life are only a version of grey in a sense. We would, therefore, not call the grey version of green and blue the colors green and blue at all. We could say they are the colors green and blue. But we should not say that they are what we would actually refer to as being the true colors green and blue.

Now that you read my line of logic, if this holds true for the colors, then it should also hold true for pleasure and suffering being the only true good and bad things in life. Also, you can say that if there are two different animals, that they are obviously different. But you could then say that they are the same in the sense that they share a similar characteristic. I'm just clearing that up for you in case you thought that was somehow a flaw in my logic with the colors. Some would also say that there are 3 types of feelings: pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. These people might then go on to say that pleasant and unpleasant are no different than neutral since they are all feelings. But neutral is not a feeling at all. It is an absence of feeling. Therefore, we would obviously not say that objects have neutral feelings. We would just simply say that they are objects with no feelings. Actually, we do have neutral feelings such as a feeling of touch. If the feeling of touch is neither pleasant nor unpleasant, then it is a neutral feeling.

Now if you experience a sense of touch, then it is a feeling. But if it neither feels pleasant nor unpleasant, then it is a neutral feeling. But pleasant and unpleasant feelings are truly unique from neutral feelings since they are obviously the only things that feel pleasant and unpleasant and are the only things that are truly good and bad. Now you could try and refute me here by saying that pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings are all different in the sense that they are all different feelings. But that they are the same in the sense that they are all feelings. You could then say to me that since neutral feelings are neutral, then that would also make pleasant and unpleasant feelings neutral as well. In other words, you might try and use my own argument against me.

Therefore, let me apply my argument here for pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings as well. Pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings are all different in the sense that they are different feelings. But they are all the same in the sense that they are all feelings. So this would mean that pleasant and unpleasant feelings would be no different than neutral feelings in the sense that they are all feelings. So they would be the neutral version of pleasant and unpleasant. But since everything else in life besides our feelings are truly unique since they are not feelings, then they would have to be the true version of pleasant and unpleasant. Everything in life besides our feelings that we once defined as good or bad, they would actually be defined as pleasant and unpleasant. This is because, based on my first argument with that line of logic I presented, good and bad can only be truly defined as our pleasure and suffering. So good=pleasure and bad=suffering. Therefore, we cannot say that pleasant=pleasure and unpleasant=suffering since pleasure and suffering can only be defined as good and bad since that is what they are. We cannot say that pleasure and suffering are truly pleasant and unpleasant.

Now that you have read my first line of logic and my new line of logic regarding those feelings, you can see that I have switched around good and bad with pleasant and unpleasant. The morals and ethics that have long been established by humanity have stated that good and bad come from our thoughts, personalities, actions, and other things in life while our pleasure and suffering aren't what we would define as truly good or bad. These morals and ethics would instead state that pleasure and suffering are pleasant and unpleasant. Therefore, my two arguments have reversed those morals and ethics to where good and bad are defined as our pleasure and suffering while other things in life besides our pleasure and suffering would be defined as pleasant and unpleasant. Sure, the morals and ethics do state that pleasure can be good if it is used to benefit you and others in a rightful way. But that moral version of good that was placed upon pleasure only came from the morals and ethics established by humanity. I said that this version of good is not the true version of good. I said that the true version of good comes from the feeling of pleasure alone in of itself.

Now if you someone manage to counter my argument, then i would ask that you also refer to my other argument supporting hedonism which explains evolution and how depression turns off our good perceptions. I said that pleasure is the only good thing in life based on that evolutionary argument. So I want you to address and refute that argument as well.

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

I am actually a male. I will speak a brief statement though about my personal life. But after that, then I will get back to the deep philosophical discussion since this is a philosophy forum after all:

Dude, I already knew the gist of what you're talking about a long time ago. Who taught you that your personal experience isn't important to deep philosophical discussion? This latest post of yours read like someone fresh out of debate class. This isn't an argument, this isn't a logic debate, I already knew your points before I ever met you. Now it's time to talk about you, but I suspect you have some sort of personal barriers preventing you from doing so with any depth or detail.

[MozartLink]

I am actually a male. I will speak a brief statement though about my personal life. But after that, then I will get back to the deep philosophical discussion since this is a philosophy forum after all:

Dude, I already knew the gist of what you're talking about a long time ago. Who taught you that your personal experience isn't important to deep philosophical discussion? This latest post of yours read like someone fresh out of debate class. This isn't an argument, this isn't a logic debate, I already knew your points before I ever met you. Now it's time to talk about you, but I suspect you have some sort of personal barriers preventing you from doing so with any depth or detail.

Then I will explain more of my personal self here:

My pleasure is what I deem as my personal life. I must have that back. Or someone dies. It won't be an innocent person who is trying to help me recover my pleasure. It would instead be someone who mocks me by telling me to accept my absence of pleasure. How could I possibly accept something that renders me and my life of no good value whatsoever? You say that there are other good things in life besides pleasure. No, I do not believe that. Not in the least bit. This is because, from my personal experience of depression and anhedonia, my thoughts and such without my pleasure are just neutral conscious experiences to me. They have no life and are just nothing more than neutral sounds, images, phrases, etc. without my pleasure. Only my pleasure breathes life into those things and makes me and my life good. There is no transcending experience whatsoever from my thoughts and such alone without my pleasure. Again, it has nothing to do with me attributing neutral value to those said things that is making them neutral experiences for me. They really are all neutral in of themselves without my pleasure and it has nothing to do with me attributing neutral value or any other value to them. I live life to experience it and to be transcended by it. I am not some bland person who is fine living a life like some robot or someone who just lives life like a job and nothing more. I am more profound and greater than that. Therefore, I need my pleasure back to regain that said profound and great life.

If you were to make me watch a video of Hitler slaughtering the innocent Jews, I would perceive Hitler as being a bad person. But I would also realize that this version of bad is neutral (fake). Feelings of suffering are the only true bad things in life while feelings of pleasure are the only true good things in life. Therefore, if Hitler didn't have any feelings of suffering and only derived pleasure from slaughtering the Jews, then that pleasure would make him a good person. But since the Jews experienced feelings of suffering, then that would make them bad. Why do I say this? It's not because I am some sociopath or anything of the sort. Sociopaths have little to no empathy. I have empathy. If I saw Hitler or someone harming someone or some innocent living creature, I would feel very sorry for that living person/creature. However, I would realize that the psychopath would actually be a good person for deriving pleasure in harming that person/innocent living thing.

So, again, why do I say this? It is because my personal experience of depression and anhedonia (absence of pleasure) have made me realize that pleasure is the only truly good experience in life. I now realize that our thoughts and such without our pleasure are all neutral and are all neutral conscious experiences. If, let's pretend, I never had depression or anhedonia, then I would truly perceive Hitler as being a horrible person even though he derived pleasure from harming all the Jews. Therefore, you might then say that my depression and anhedonia have distorted my perceptions. But this is false. I now have every reason to believe that pleasure is the one and only true good thing in life. Please refer to my other packets which contain arguments and reasonings supporting this claim.

[Arising_uk]

And yet you appear to refute your own argument by showing that it is insufficient to achieve hedonism for yourself?

[MozartLink]

And yet you appear to refute your own argument by showing that it is insufficient to achieve hedonism for yourself?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you explain?

[Arising_uk]

Are you basking in happy hedonism?

[MozartLink]

Are you basking in happy hedonism?

Well, let me just say this. We have good, bad, and neutral (neither good or bad). But the version of good and bad that comes from everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering, they are all the neutral version of good and bad. In other words, they are the fake verison of good and bad. If this makes no sense to you, then allow me to explain. We would not refer to everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering as being good or bad. We would instead refer to them as all being neutral. We would instead refer to feelings of pleasure as being what is the one and only good thing in life while feelings of suffering would be the one and only bad thing in life. Even if those neutral things only served to bring us and/or others nothing but suffering or pleasure, we would still not refer to them as being good or bad. Even if seeking pleasure only brought us and/or others nothing but suffering, we would still not refer to pleasure as being bad since it is always good since it is the true version of good. It is a version of good that is independent of our thoughts and moral values. It is a feeling version of good. Therefore, our value judgments including everything else in life can never define it as ever being bad or neutral. Same concept applies for our feelings of suffering. Also, if I were to somehow perceive me and my life as being good and worth living without my pleasure, then that good perception would not be good at all. It would only be neutral and I would only be fooling myself into perceiving it as good. So people who have depression and/or anhedonia (absence of pleasure) who perceive them and their lives as being good and worth living anyway without their pleasure, these people are only fooling themselves. Everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering that are claimed to be good and bad, that version of good and bad is a decoy and people must realize this so that we can find better treatments/cures for depression, anhedonia, and suffering in general since our pleasure is what is the only good thing in life and it is that much more vital that we have it in our lives.

[Arising_uk]

Not what I asked you.

[MozartLink]

I am going to state something extremely important here. It is something truly amazing. When I had this depression and anhedonia (absence of pleasure), this lead me to a personal belief (conclusion) that pleasure is the only truly good thing in life, suffering is the only truly bad thing in life, while everything else in life is neutral (neither truly good or bad). I went online and typed in the question "Is pleasure the only good thing in life?" and I have found an established belief system that basically matches what I just said word for word. This belief is known as Psychological Hedonism. I am now going to give you the link (url) to this website:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism/

Now that you've read it, I find it too much of a coincidence that an intelligent person such as myself has come up with a personal conclusion and that there also so happens to be a belief supported by science that says the exact same things I'm saying. Therefore, pleasure really must be the only truly good thing in life then and suffering must be the only truly bad thing in life.

I can honestly say here that this is something truly tragic though because this would mean that we would have every right to treat suffering people like shit since they are bad people since they feel bad. If we suffer, then we should treat ourselves like shit since we are bad people who deserve to be thrown and tossed away like metal scraps. It would also mean that we should bow down before those types of people who derive pleasure from making our lives shit since they are the greater people since they have pleasure in their lives.

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

My pleasure is what I deem as my personal life. I must have that back. Or someone dies. It won't be an innocent person who is trying to help me recover my pleasure. It would instead be someone who mocks me by telling me to accept my absence of pleasure.

That's fine. Life is a stream. You cannot kill my existence. If the monkey wishes to impede it's own progress, such is life. Chances are despite his words deep down the monkey efforts the stream to continue, along with his anhedonia.

I live life to experience it and to be transcended by it. I am not some bland person who is fine living a life like some robot

If so why do you repeat yourself over and over again. I ask for a personal account like a diary. Instead you repeat the same thing over and over, like robot, very basic.

[Advocate]

No time to read the whole thing at but one point early in the OP is wrong. There is no part of a mind that is not subject to the avoid/approach mechanism all living beings possess, nor from the story we tell ourselves about how we fit in to the universe we see around us, aka perspective aka ego. In other words, our understanding of all concepts is colored, never neutral. We might not care enough to notice the difference but if the difference was made salient by circumstance we could easily find a distinction that matters to us.