The Right To Be Offended

For all things philosophical.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

mtmynd1 wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: I just don't really get the 'politically correct' movement. It's just so nit-picky.
We're living in a totally different times as the 21st C moves forward. The instantaneous communications (internet) along with the new way to do our shopping, the explosion of the population... these are but a few indicators that we are more closely involved with the world than we may care to be. There is a new generation that has their own demands and from my position justice, fairness and respect seems to be key. I mention this because of the outcry of so many regarding the American Native population that has endured a less than ideal life for an extraordinary amount of time in a country that brags about it's wealth and might. The vast majority of these people are not second class citizens bur more third class than others. It is their youth who just might be the most offended by the name "redskin" as it is not a flattering name for a proud people and their youth just may be fed up with the dismissive attitude other people take towards them. I would be, I'm sure, if I were walking in their shoes.
I understand what you're saying, that humanity progresses. I'm saying that what exactly can be considered progression is in fact relative.

It would seem that those that worry about "redskins," are also saying that it's inferior to "whiteskins," considering that "white men" were in fact the ones that coined the term in the first place, as a means to demean, but that was then.

It's removal, says that in fact the term was derogatory. That to call attention to the fact, of the color of ones skin is important, thus one color is better than another, that one is inferior.

I see it only as a means to be descriptive, which is benign in my way of thinking. A: "Did you see what that guy did?" B: "Which guy, there are many?" A: "That one over there, with the chapeau, red skin, blue hair, tall, wearing spats, with the golden handled cane, talking to that large bosomed blonde in the Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini." I don't see a problem.

You can refer to me as that chunky white skinned older fellow with the grey hair all you want, I could really care less. If someone calls me a homosexual, I'll just smile. While some words still piss me off. But the object is to rise above all that, especially as we age, as surely wisdom yields the answers to those fears, on both sides of the equation, such that one understands the situation all too clearly, as it becomes laughable.


To me, in my lifetime, a "white skin," is in fact inferior to a "red skin," solely due to how the whites treated the reds. When I grew up, knowing this, I always rooted for the Indians, not the cowboys. The way of life, (philosophies), of the "red man" are far superior than that of the "white man," IMHO. Yes, I'm totally considered a "white man" "Caucasian," my sir name is in fact of English origin. I look whiter than white.

Contradictory?? No, I'm just one that can see "equality" above all others. You might say that I don't, as I've elevated the "red man" above the "white man." but I would say, no! Until the "red man" is treated just as equal, even going so far as to return much of that which was taken, I'll always see him as superior. Such is all underdogs in my eyes, always superior!

When there is nothing but one color, ideologically, or otherwise, the "ruling" color shall always be inferior, as they stack the deck in their favor. Sorry but that's just the way it is in my mind, and it always shall be.

So do I want to be "cowed" into seeing things others way? Never!
Do I want to be keel hauled simply because I use a term my way, that others see another way? Not!
Is it right, that I am "forced" to see things another's way, just so they are pleased, at my displeasure, when it's all for naught? No F'ing way!
Should I have just the same freedom of speech, (rights), that all others possess, despite the fact that I see things the same way they do, yet voiced another way. You damn bet ya!

I have always taken mans shite, and turned it right back at him, and I'll never stop, until he gets up off his selfish ass and starts paying attention to equality in diversity, especially in speech!

It's everyone's responsibility to ensure how someone means what they say, before executing them. In the name of individuality and diversity while being considered equal, isn't that the goal? Not just "redskins," or "whiteskins," but rather "SpheresOfBalance's" skin too!

EveryonesSkins!!!!!!! Despite "any" of their differences!!!

What's in a word, if it only means good things, in the mind of it's wielder?

Intent is everything, otherwise we hurt "people making verbal mistakes skins" because of our "selfish" preferences, that they conform to "our" way! And that's the same thing you're fighting against!

Does or should a 'mob' really rule, in the name of language or otherwise?

Are you catching my meaning, have I made it clear, as I'm not sure if my words are translating correctly, let us be sure before anyone takes offense, of the aether between us all.

Communication is all about conveying ideas, do you "believe" I have done this, despite the fact that we speak slightly different languages? Should anyone be held accountable for creating or having or not understanding, another's variation, "another's language skin?" Isn't it the same thing that's being fought for, i.e., someone projecting inferiority upon another simply because they are not like them, in other words, "SELFISHNESS?" Holding ones way as the "right" the "only" way?

I believe my lengthiness has made my point extremely clear, do you find fault, with the logic?

I highly respect "redskins!" And I would hope everyone does! But I can't always have others do things my way? That would be selfish of me.

Physically, one on one, I can surely see it in their eyes, body language, and hear it in their vocal inflections; their intent.

First edit: that which is blue above.
Second edit: the color blue above, and this key to the edits.
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
thedoc
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by thedoc »

Stuartp523 wrote: The owners may be ornery, or put dignity before money in this case, but maybe they're just more far-sighted than most. They probably are losing money, because the same fickle people that are withholding their money from the organization, are generally the type to waste it on things like excessive merchandise. In fact, these people would probably make up for the cost of making new merchandise with new logos by immediately buying it in large quantities.

Do you have any data to back this up, or is it just speculation on your part?
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by Stuartp523 »

I've already established through out this thread how the supporters of this name change are generally fickle, impulsive people who are overly fashion conscious.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Stuartp523 wrote:I've already established through out this thread how the supporters of this name change are generally fickle, impulsive people who are overly fashion conscious.
Still I agree that something like this should never be said with disdain in ones voice. The teams name, at least I see, is benign. Of course I'm also a firm believer in the "freedom of Speech."
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by mickthinks »

Stuartp523 wrote:
mickthinks wrote:Basically, the team is either owned by people who won't give in to liberal hysterics or it isn't.

Dubbing your opponents in a debate "hysterical" is rather begging the question, Stuart.
I found this thread to be more of a monologue for me than a place to debate. I don't find most here to be hysterical, even if they're propagating hysterics.

If I was having a discussion with anyone, I might have gone to the trouble of clarify such things.
Do you have a non-fallacious way of making your point about how principled and noble the team's owner's stance is?
I think they'll give in.
Are you always this evasive, Stuart? You'll never make it as a troll if you can't sustain the stupid a bit longer than that.
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by Stuartp523 »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Stuartp523 wrote:I've already established through out this thread how the supporters of this name change are generally fickle, impulsive people who are overly fashion conscious.
Still I agree that something like this should never be said with disdain in ones voice.
I agree as well.
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Re: Re:

Post by mickthinks »

Wyman wrote:There's nothing insulting about taking on the persona of a tribe or Indian warrior chief.
Are you sure? Are you in a position to understand better than Native Americans why they find a term insulting?


I can see why Henry is ambivalent.
I don't think Henry's "Do Indians have a bee in their collective bonnet over 'redskin', or, is it just a buncha friggin' busy bodies (with too much free time) makin' a stink over nuthin'?" was particularly ambivalent.
Last edited by mickthinks on Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stuartp523
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by Stuartp523 »

mickthinks wrote:Are you always this evasive, Stuart?
You evade my posts, refusing to debate, then accuse me of being evasive, in part, for mentioning that I'm not in a debate?
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by Sappho de Miranda »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:As native Americans have negligible money or power, and are for all intents and purposes invisible and a joke to most Americans, then of course no one will take any notice of them.
What is an an American Native Indian anyway? What percentage of true blood is accepted to be Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by mickthinks »

Stuartp523 wrote:
mickthinks wrote:Are you always this evasive, Stuart?
You evade my posts, refusing to debate, then accuse me of being evasive, in part, for mentioning that I'm not in a debate?
LOL Et tu quoque!

No, I call you evasive because a) you deny being in a discussion here while your comments contribute to, and respond to, a debate which is raging outside in the US media and b) your "I think they'll give in" sidesteps the question and ducks the challenge I put to you:
mickthinks wrote:Do you have a non-fallacious way of making your point about how principled and noble the team's owner's stance is?
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by Stuartp523 »

One can hardly make a non-fallacious argument about something he doesn't believe is true.
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by mickthinks »

You believe the team owners' struggle against the liberals isn't principled or noble? Me neither. I think they are cynical, self-centred, short-sighted arseholes.
Last edited by mickthinks on Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Right To Be Offended

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sappho de Miranda wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:As native Americans have negligible money or power, and are for all intents and purposes invisible and a joke to most Americans, then of course no one will take any notice of them.
What is an an American Native Indian anyway? What percentage of true blood is accepted to be Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws
All humans have human blood.
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Re: Re:

Post by Wyman »

mickthinks wrote:
Wyman wrote:There's nothing insulting about taking on the persona of a tribe or Indian warrior chief.
Are you sure? Are you in a position to understand better than Native Americans why they find a term insulting?


I can see why Henry is ambivalent.
I don't think Henry's "Do Indians have a bee in their collective bonnet over 'redskin', or, is it just a buncha friggin' busy bodies (with too much free time) makin' a stink over nuthin'?" was particularly ambivalent.
Yes, I'm pretty sure - remember, I left out 'redskins,' referring to 'Seminoles,' 'Chiefs,' 'Braves', etc.. I can't stand the argument, which you see from female feminists especially, that you are not allowed to have an opinion on something that relates to someone else. I didn't say that I was 'in a better position,' did I? It is not too hard to imagine someone naming a team, say, the 'Celtics' or something like that, and then extrapolating.

Besides the Native American schools who in fact have teams named the "Redskins," which I mentioned above, I'd be willing to bet that a very large percentage of the other NA schools have teams named after NA warriors or tribes or other NA references.
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Re: Re:

Post by mickthinks »

Of course, one is allowed to voice any opinion, no matter how crass, but not all opinions are worthy of respect. Opinions which deny other people's feelings are near the bottom of the respectable scale, I think.


I didn't say that I was 'in a better position,' did I?
Then you know you have no basis for your "There's nothing insulting about taking on the persona of a tribe or Indian warrior chief" assertion.
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