What form of discipline should be used at home?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:23 am

You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:

By year By country
2010 Albania Albania
2014 [a] Argentina
1989 Austria Austria
2014 Bolivia
2014 Brazil
2000 Bulgaria Bulgaria
2014 Cape Verde Cape Verde
2010[6] Republic of the Congo Congo, Republic of
2008 Costa Rica Costa Rica
1999 Croatia Croatia
1994 Cyprus Cyprus
1997 Denmark Denmark
1983 Finland
2000 Germany
2006 Greece Greece
2013[7] Honduras Honduras
2004 Hungary Hungary
2003 Iceland Iceland
2000 Israel Israel
2010 Kenya Kenya
1998 Latvia Latvia
2008 Liechtenstein Liechtenstein
2008 Luxembourg Luxembourg
2013 Republic of Macedonia Macedonia
2014 Malta Malta
2008 Moldova Moldova
2007 Netherlands Netherlands
2007 New Zealand New Zealand
1987[9][c] Norway Norway
2010 Poland Poland
2007 Portugal Portugal
2004 Romania Romania
2011[12] South Sudan South Sudan
2007 Spain
1979[d] Sweden
2007 Togo Togo
2010[14] Tunisia Tunisia
2002 Turkmenistan Turkmenistan
2004 Ukraine Ukraine
2007 Uruguay Uruguay
2007 Venezuela Venezuela

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:37 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:

--List of countries--
Obviously I disagree. For the 20 lb. weaklings to say such things, I understand, as their fear is the deepest, surrounded by a wall of giant humans, but for the burly family, of bear like humans, it's nothing more than play, albeit, slightly stronger, so as to make a point, WHEN IT'S WARRANTED; NOT A MEANS TO HARM, ONLY EVER TO ACCENTUATE. The spectrum of dichotomy is only as wide as one makes it! Narrow it and one looses perspective! Simply becoming, prey!

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:51 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:

--List of countries--
Obviously I disagree. For the 20 lb. weaklings to say such things, I understand, as their fear is the deepest, surrounded by a wall of giant humans, but for the burly family, of bear like humans, it's nothing more than play, albeit, slightly stronger, so as to make a point, WHEN IT'S WARRANTED; NOT A MEANS TO HARM, ONLY EVER TO ACCENTUATE. The spectrum of dichotomy is only as wide as one makes it! Narrow it and one looses perspective! Simply becoming, prey!
Whatever that load of waffle means. The only situation where it's warranted is self defence.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:19 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:

--List of countries--
Obviously I disagree. For the 20 lb. weaklings to say such things, I understand, as their fear is the deepest, surrounded by a wall of giant humans, but for the burly family, of bear like humans, it's nothing more than play, albeit, slightly stronger, so as to make a point, WHEN IT'S WARRANTED; NOT A MEANS TO HARM, ONLY EVER TO ACCENTUATE. The spectrum of dichotomy is only as wide as one makes it! Narrow it and one looses perspective! Simply becoming, prey!
Whatever that load of waffle means. The only situation where it's warranted is self defence.
That you see it as waffle, does not surprise me, as not everyone is privy to everyone else's concepts, and people 'fear' what they don't understand, lashing out. Wrong, it is warranted, where ever it is required.

People that believe such as you, actually "cause" kids to take guns to school and shoot people dead, as well as the fighting/humiliation, of posting videos of one beating up another, by enabling their sense of right.
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by Gee » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:51 pm

Kayla;

I will respond to your post tomorrow, as it will take some time to address the issues.

Gee

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:59 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote: People that believe such as you, actually "cause" kids to take guns to school and shoot people dead, as well as the fighting/humiliation, of posting videos of one beating up another, by enabling their sense of right.
It's waffle because it doesn't even make sense. Plus, how many adults weigh 20lbs? So, NOT assaulting children makes them take their parents' (their pacifist parents who have loaded guns lying around the house) weapons to school and shoot people. Stunning logic :lol: It wouldn't have anything to do with the gun-worshiping 'culture' you have would it? The warmongering hero-worship of anyone in the military? We've never had a school shooting here. You yanks think the whole world is like you. Well, that hasn't happened quite yet and I hope it never does. What possible justification could anyone have for owning an assault rifle? Trying to reason with yanks about their gun obsession is the same as trying to reason with creationists.
Children shoot out your schools because your country loves bullies and guns. Teach your children to stop bullying and perhaps your school shootings might stop. The most disgusting, stalking, bullying, paranoid, and just plain evil trolls I've encountered on the internet have been Americans. Coincidence? I don't think so. And they weren't children. They were bog-standard white filth, well over middle-age, with ordinary jobs. Actually, get your whole country to stop bullying the rest of the planet.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:33 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: People that believe such as you, actually "cause" kids to take guns to school and shoot people dead, as well as the fighting/humiliation, of posting videos of one beating up another, by enabling their sense of right.
It's waffle because it doesn't even make sense.
No it's waffle to 'you,' because you do not know enough of it to yet understand it. But instead of asking questions to erase ambiguity, you tend to slander, first. You should instead seek clarity of another's concepts before doing so, it's only fair.

Plus, how many adults weigh 20lbs?
:lol: No, a twenty lb. weakling, at least in my circles, means that they can only lift 20 lbs, not that they weigh 20 lbs.

So, NOT assaulting children makes them take their parents'
As if that's the only source of weapons, FYI one can make a weapon themselves, especially today with the internet, full of knowledge.

(their pacifist parents who have loaded guns lying around the house)
That it doesn't apply to your household does not necessarily speak of all households.

weapons to school and shoot people.
Though it does in fact happen someplace, and it shouldn't happen in any place.

Stunning logic
Yet you judge my logic before it unfolds, a reactionary of preconceived notions?

:lol:
Is that egg on your face? I have yet to laugh at you! ;)

It wouldn't have anything to do with the gun-worshiping 'culture' you have would it?
In prisons in the US people have killed people with a ball point pen. The gun was simply an 'example,' not necessarily all inclusive.

The warmongering hero-worship of anyone in the military?
Which can happen anywhere, or are you simply going to watch as Nazis invade your country killing you all?

We've never had a school shooting here.
Good for you, I wish it were the same everywhere.

You yanks think the whole world is like you.
No, it was you that took things out of context, obviously a factor of preconceived notions, I have seen that you have an axe to grind when it comes to the US, and assume that everyone here is accountable, a falsehood indeed. I said, "it's people 'like' you," assuming you understood the meaning of the word "like."

Well, that hasn't happened quite yet and I hope it never does.
And so do I.

Children shoot out your schools because your country loves bullies and guns.
Nope, not at all. To try and narrow it down like that is short sighted, but with the fact that we have guns, comes great responsibility, and that's what I'm talking about.

Teach your children to stop bullying and perhaps your school shootings might stop.
You can only see things from your perspective, you do not live here, so how could you possibly know what our children need. Tough environments, so tough children, understand?

Actually, get your whole country to stop bullying the rest of the planet.
As usual, at least with respect to me, you preach to the choir, as if I'm the all powerful OZ, A GREAT WIZARD, but alas, I'm just one average man, such as you are just an average woman; if I remember correctly. ;)
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:43 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: People that believe such as you, actually "cause" kids to take guns to school and shoot people dead, as well as the fighting/humiliation, of posting videos of one beating up another, by enabling their sense of right.
It's waffle because it doesn't even make sense.
No it's waffle to 'you,' because you do not know enough of it to yet understand it. But instead of asking questions to erase ambiguity, you tend to slander, first. You should instead seek clarity of another's concepts before doing so, it's only fair.

Plus, how many adults weigh 20lbs?
:lol: No, a twenty lb. weakling, at least in my circles, means that they can only lift 20 lbs, not that they weigh 20 lbs.

So, NOT assaulting children makes them take their parents'
As if that's the only source of weapons, FYI one can make a weapon themselves, especially today with the internet, full of knowledge.

(their pacifist parents who have loaded guns lying around the house)
That it doesn't apply to your household does not necessarily speak of all households.

weapons to school and shoot people.
Though it does in fact happen someplace, and it should happen in any place.

Stunning logic
Yet you judge my logic before it unfolds, a reactionary of preconceived notions?

:lol:
Is that egg on your face? I have yet to laugh at you! ;)

It wouldn't have anything to do with the gun-worshiping 'culture' you have would it?
In prisons in the US people have killed people with a ball point pen. The gun was simply an 'example,' not necessarily all inclusive.

The warmongering hero-worship of anyone in the military?
Which can happen anywhere, or are you simply going to watch as Nazis invade your country killing you all?

We've never had a school shooting here.
Good for you, I wish it were the same everywhere.

You yanks think the whole world is like you.
No, it was you that took things out of context, obviously a factor of preconceived notions, I have seen that you have an axe to grind when it comes to the US, and assume that everyone here is accountable, a falsehood indeed. I said, "it's people 'like' you." assuming you understood the meaning of the word "like."

Well, that hasn't happened quite yet and I hope it never does.
And so do I.

Children shoot out your schools because your country loves bullies and guns.
Nope, not at all. To try and narrow it down like that is short sighted, but with the fact that we have guns, comes great responsibility, and that's what I'm talking about.

Teach your children to stop bullying and perhaps your school shootings might stop.
You can only see things from your perspective, you do not live here, so how could you possibly know what our children need. Tough environments, so tough children, understand?

Actually, get your whole country to stop bullying the rest of the planet.
As usual, at least with respect to me, you preach to the choir, as if I'm the all powerful OZ, A GREAT WIZARD, but alas, I'm just one average man, such as you are just an average woman; if I remember correctly. ;)
The grammar was very poor, making it impossible to decipher. That's your fault, not mine. Plus, definitely not average. :wink:
What do you mean 'Nazis'? I don't see them around. I'd be a lot more worried about your thugs invading. Ask any Iraqi.
And as I said, 'like trying to reason with a creationist'. It's futile.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:52 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote: People that believe such as you, actually "cause" kids to take guns to school and shoot people dead, as well as the fighting/humiliation, of posting videos of one beating up another, by enabling their sense of right.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: It's waffle because it doesn't even make sense.
No it's waffle to 'you,' because you do not know enough of it to yet understand it. But instead of asking questions to erase ambiguity, you tend to slander, first. You should instead seek clarity of another's concepts before doing so, it's only fair.

Plus, how many adults weigh 20lbs?
:lol: No, a twenty lb. weakling, at least in my circles, means that they can only lift 20 lbs, not that they weigh 20 lbs.

So, NOT assaulting children makes them take their parents'
As if that's the only source of weapons, FYI one can make a weapon themselves, especially today with the internet, full of knowledge.

(their pacifist parents who have loaded guns lying around the house)
That it doesn't apply to your household does not necessarily speak of all households.

weapons to school and shoot people.
Though it does in fact happen someplace, and it should happen in any place.

Stunning logic
Yet you judge my logic before it unfolds, a reactionary of preconceived notions?

:lol:
Is that egg on your face? I have yet to laugh at you! ;)

It wouldn't have anything to do with the gun-worshiping 'culture' you have would it?
In prisons in the US people have killed people with a ball point pen. The gun was simply an 'example,' not necessarily all inclusive.

The warmongering hero-worship of anyone in the military?
Which can happen anywhere, or are you simply going to watch as Nazis invade your country killing you all?

We've never had a school shooting here.
Good for you, I wish it were the same everywhere.

You yanks think the whole world is like you.
No, it was you that took things out of context, obviously a factor of preconceived notions, I have seen that you have an axe to grind when it comes to the US, and assume that everyone here is accountable, a falsehood indeed. I said, "it's people 'like' you." assuming you understood the meaning of the word "like."

Well, that hasn't happened quite yet and I hope it never does.
And so do I.

Children shoot out your schools because your country loves bullies and guns.
Nope, not at all. To try and narrow it down like that is short sighted, but with the fact that we have guns, comes great responsibility, and that's what I'm talking about.

Teach your children to stop bullying and perhaps your school shootings might stop.
You can only see things from your perspective, you do not live here, so how could you possibly know what our children need. Tough environments, so tough children, understand?

Actually, get your whole country to stop bullying the rest of the planet.
As usual, at least with respect to me, you preach to the choir, as if I'm the all powerful OZ, A GREAT WIZARD, but alas, I'm just one average man, such as you are just an average woman; if I remember correctly. ;)
The grammar was very poor, making it impossible to decipher. That's your fault, not mine. Plus, definitely not average. :wink:
There you go with the blame game again, must be those Americans, huh? The grammar was not poor, you simply jumped to conclusions, having too little to work with. Quote where my grammar was poor, explaining which rules I broke.

But I do stand corrected, I said "such" as you, not "like" you, which in fact means the same thing. I did not say "you, cause" I said, "such as you, cause," which is in fact grammatically correct.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:03 pm

"Obviously I disagree. For the 20 lb. weaklings to say such things, I understand, as their fear is the deepest, surrounded by a wall of giant humans, but for the burly family, of bear like humans, it's nothing more than play, albeit, slightly stronger, so as to make a point, WHEN IT'S WARRANTED; NOT A MEANS TO HARM, ONLY EVER TO ACCENTUATE. The spectrum of dichotomy is only as wide as one makes it! Narrow it and one looses perspective! Simply becoming, prey!"

Far too many commas, in all the wrong places. 'bear like humans': I think you meant 'bear-like' humans, but perhaps you meant 'bears like humans'? I don't think they do. 'looses':I'm sure you meant loses, but I can't be sure. Lots of fragmentation. Inappropriate use of the exclamation mark......

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by Gee » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:16 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:
Vegetariantaxidermy;

Consider that when a person says, "Show some respect!" or when they say, "Respect your elders.", they are not saying show some fear, or show some admiration; and they are not saying fear your elders, or admire your elders. When the word, respect, is used in this venue, it is about behavior. "Show some respect." means mind your manners. "Respect your elders." means obey the social conventions and comport yourself appropriately. Discipline is about behavior, not feelings, and this thread is about discipline.

You are talking about a person's feelings in your above quote. There is a tremendous difference between feelings and behavior. We do not discipline a child to change their feelings, as that would be a most cruel and invasive kind of discipline. We discipline to change a child's behavior, so I think that it would be best if we do not mix those two very different aspects of the word, respect. Otherwise, we will be speaking at cross-purposes and not be able to have any kind of intelligent discussion.

I would like to thank you for doing all the work that you did to compile the list of countries that have passed laws regarding the disciplining of children.

If you look at that list, you will find that the large majority of those laws were passed within the last 20 years, the oldest of them was 1979, so this is a fairly new idea in terms of human history. There has not even been a full generation that has passed, so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of the laws, or see if there are any unexpected repercussions. So for these reasons, I do not see truth or wisdom behind these laws, as they have not passed the test of time. What I do see is a philosophical concept that tries to promote the idea that we are NOT animals -- but we are. When a philosophical concept denies reality, then it is not philosophy -- these laws are a fad.

During the same time frame that people were diligently writing these laws about disciplining children, there were many wars that could only be described as genocides in Iraq, Bosnia, and Africa, clearly illustrating just how much like animals we are. Do you honestly believe that there were no children involved? That children did not bleed to death, starve to death, be maimed for life, or watch as their families were slaughtered? You are going to have to do better than the above if you wish to convince me that the large majority of parents are doing more damage by spanking their children.

Gee

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:21 pm

Gee wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:
Vegetariantaxidermy;

Consider that when a person says, "Show some respect!" or when they say, "Respect your elders.", they are not saying show some fear, or show some admiration; and they are not saying fear your elders, or admire your elders. When the word, respect, is used in this venue, it is about behavior. "Show some respect." means mind your manners. "Respect your elders." means obey the social conventions and comport yourself appropriately. Discipline is about behavior, not feelings, and this thread is about discipline.

You are talking about a person's feelings in your above quote. There is a tremendous difference between feelings and behavior. We do not discipline a child to change their feelings, as that would be a most cruel and invasive kind of discipline. We discipline to change a child's behavior, so I think that it would be best if we do not mix those two very different aspects of the word, respect. Otherwise, we will be speaking at cross-purposes and not be able to have any kind of intelligent discussion.

I would like to thank you for doing all the work that you did to compile the list of countries that have passed laws regarding the disciplining of children.

If you look at that list, you will find that the large majority of those laws were passed within the last 20 years, the oldest of them was 1979, so this is a fairly new idea in terms of human history. There has not even been a full generation that has passed, so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of the laws, or see if there are any unexpected repercussions. So for these reasons, I do not see truth or wisdom behind these laws, as they have not passed the test of time. What I do see is a philosophical concept that tries to promote the idea that we are NOT animals -- but we are. When a philosophical concept denies reality, then it is not philosophy -- these laws are a fad.

During the same time frame that people were diligently writing these laws about disciplining children, there were many wars that could only be described as genocides in Iraq, Bosnia, and Africa, clearly illustrating just how much like animals we are. Do you honestly believe that there were no children involved? That children did not bleed to death, starve to death, be maimed for life, or watch as their families were slaughtered? You are going to have to do better than the above if you wish to convince me that the large majority of parents are doing more damage by spanking their children.

Gee
Are you talking about the children who were murdered when the US invaded Iraq? Your passive-aggressive style doesn't impress me. I really don't give a rat's arse if you want to 'discipline' your children with your hands, just don't try telling me it makes them any better behaved or 'better' in any way. Has everything fallen apart since it became illegal for men to 'discipline' their wives with their fists? Plus, unlike others on here I do know what the word 'respect' means. I believe the US has the highest rate of child abuse in the world, not counting countries that don't bother to record it.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:59 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:"Obviously I disagree. For the 20 lb. weaklings to say such things, I understand, as their fear is the deepest, surrounded by a wall of giant humans, but for the burly family, of bear like humans, it's nothing more than play, albeit, slightly stronger, so as to make a point, WHEN IT'S WARRANTED; NOT A MEANS TO HARM, ONLY EVER TO ACCENTUATE. The spectrum of dichotomy is only as wide as one makes it! Narrow it and one looses perspective! Simply becoming, prey!"

Far too many commas, in all the wrong places. 'bear like humans': I think you meant 'bear-like' humans, but perhaps you meant 'bears like humans'? I don't think they do. 'looses':I'm sure you meant loses, but I can't be sure. Lots of fragmentation. Inappropriate use of the exclamation mark......
NO, to the commas, my English professor said that as to comma placement, which is only meant as a pause, or to delineate a list, it is up to the "creative license" of the author. Consider my commas, me telling you that I want you to pause, for dramatic effect, the worst you could say is that I'm a William Shatner clone, in his Captain Kirk role. I agree that bear-like would have been clearer, gut you have to be realistic, logically, contextually, that's all I could have meant. Looses was a sticky key, I meant loses, I have mentioned way back in Sept of 2011, that my keyboard is really old and worn, and can't afford to get a new one, of course you were not aware of that, but it's true to this day. Nope, only one fragment: "Simply becoming, prey!" As to exclamation marks, nope, went a little wild, but they were meant to exclaim strong feelings! I'm also very guilty of run-on's though, which you never even mentioned.

Still you have largely mentioned punctuation, not grammar, which for me is all about conjugation, clauses and tense. Wikipedia states: "The term "English grammar," therefore, may have several meanings."

Additionally, you have not mentioned any grammatical errors that would cause yo to go off half cocked against Americans which is in fact par for your course. You obviously have a bone to pick, with "Americans," seeing them largely responsible for all the problems in the world, or so it would surely seem. You also are incapable of understanding that we are individuals just like you, and that the argument of "us and them" is a falsehood only serving those of shallow mind.

But it really doesn't matter as it is always true that one only argues marginal grammar/spelling as a last ditch effort when they know they lost the argument. If you understood my intent then you have no real reason to call my grammar into question, as communication is only meant to convey meaning, not whine about breaking rules as to perfect grammar. Who's perfect after all, YOU? I checked your last message, it is full of fragments, by the way.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:28 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Gee wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:
Vegetariantaxidermy;

Consider that when a person says, "Show some respect!" or when they say, "Respect your elders.", they are not saying show some fear, or show some admiration; and they are not saying fear your elders, or admire your elders. When the word, respect, is used in this venue, it is about behavior. "Show some respect." means mind your manners. "Respect your elders." means obey the social conventions and comport yourself appropriately. Discipline is about behavior, not feelings, and this thread is about discipline.

You are talking about a person's feelings in your above quote. There is a tremendous difference between feelings and behavior. We do not discipline a child to change their feelings, as that would be a most cruel and invasive kind of discipline. We discipline to change a child's behavior, so I think that it would be best if we do not mix those two very different aspects of the word, respect. Otherwise, we will be speaking at cross-purposes and not be able to have any kind of intelligent discussion.

I would like to thank you for doing all the work that you did to compile the list of countries that have passed laws regarding the disciplining of children.

If you look at that list, you will find that the large majority of those laws were passed within the last 20 years, the oldest of them was 1979, so this is a fairly new idea in terms of human history. There has not even been a full generation that has passed, so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of the laws, or see if there are any unexpected repercussions. So for these reasons, I do not see truth or wisdom behind these laws, as they have not passed the test of time. What I do see is a philosophical concept that tries to promote the idea that we are NOT animals -- but we are. When a philosophical concept denies reality, then it is not philosophy -- these laws are a fad.

During the same time frame that people were diligently writing these laws about disciplining children, there were many wars that could only be described as genocides in Iraq, Bosnia, and Africa, clearly illustrating just how much like animals we are. Do you honestly believe that there were no children involved? That children did not bleed to death, starve to death, be maimed for life, or watch as their families were slaughtered? You are going to have to do better than the above if you wish to convince me that the large majority of parents are doing more damage by spanking their children.

Gee
Are you talking about the children who were murdered when the US invaded Iraq? Your passive-aggressive style doesn't impress me. I really don't give a rat's arse if you want to 'discipline' your children with your hands, just don't try telling me it makes them any better behaved or 'better' in any way. Has everything fallen apart since it became illegal for men to 'discipline' their wives with their fists? Plus, unlike others on here I do know what the word 'respect' means. I believe the US has the highest rate of child abuse in the world, not counting countries that don't bother to record it.
And if your country is one of our allies, and some country comes into yours and starts killing your children, and we come in and save you pacifist lives, you'll be the first one to thank us for doing so. Isn't it funny, about shoes on another foot.

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Re: What form of discipline should be used at home?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:42 pm

Gee wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You don't respect anyone who hits you. Quite the opposite. You might fear them, or be revolted by them, but never respect.
Countries where it's illegal to hit your children:
Vegetariantaxidermy;

Consider that when a person says, "Show some respect!" or when they say, "Respect your elders.", they are not saying show some fear, or show some admiration; and they are not saying fear your elders, or admire your elders. When the word, respect, is used in this venue, it is about behavior. "Show some respect." means mind your manners. "Respect your elders." means obey the social conventions and comport yourself appropriately. Discipline is about behavior, not feelings, and this thread is about discipline.

You are talking about a person's feelings in your above quote. There is a tremendous difference between feelings and behavior. We do not discipline a child to change their feelings, as that would be a most cruel and invasive kind of discipline. We discipline to change a child's behavior, so I think that it would be best if we do not mix those two very different aspects of the word, respect. Otherwise, we will be speaking at cross-purposes and not be able to have any kind of intelligent discussion.

I would like to thank you for doing all the work that you did to compile the list of countries that have passed laws regarding the disciplining of children.

If you look at that list, you will find that the large majority of those laws were passed within the last 20 years, the oldest of them was 1979, so this is a fairly new idea in terms of human history. There has not even been a full generation that has passed, so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of the laws, or see if there are any unexpected repercussions. So for these reasons, I do not see truth or wisdom behind these laws, as they have not passed the test of time. What I do see is a philosophical concept that tries to promote the idea that we are NOT animals -- but we are. When a philosophical concept denies reality, then it is not philosophy -- these laws are a fad.

During the same time frame that people were diligently writing these laws about disciplining children, there were many wars that could only be described as genocides in Iraq, Bosnia, and Africa, clearly illustrating just how much like animals we are. Do you honestly believe that there were no children involved? That children did not bleed to death, starve to death, be maimed for life, or watch as their families were slaughtered? You are going to have to do better than the above if you wish to convince me that the large majority of parents are doing more damage by spanking their children.

Gee
I agree with 100% of your take. Things amongst cultures/people are in fact relative, and those that want to micromanage any idea for everyone, should have their heads examined. Those types are dictator types, believing their gods should be your gods, as surely only theirs are the right gods.

I'm an American and I hate the fact that we even went into Iraq for reasons of oil, thus money, and strategic location, because that's the truth of it, let alone the fact that those in charge believed that innocents were acceptable collateral damage. It really infuriates me to see innocents killed for selfish money making reasons.

I love all cultures equally, for that difference that they bring to the table. I much prefer to visit them and do as they do, so as to experience the variety that is life on planet earth. And no matter what individuals/extremist groups do, that are terrible things, to my neighbors, I've/I'll always feel the same way.

And yes, I'm an American!!!!!!!!! (<-enough exclamation marks for you Veggie? Do I really have to explain why?)

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