Misconceiving Truth

For all things philosophical.

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WanderingLands
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by WanderingLands » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:31 am

Sappho de Miranda wrote: When you use the word cycle, what meaning are you ascribing to it?
A cycle is pretty much a circle where you repeatedly go around such circle to the exact point from which you start and end to. Technically, it is moving as in vibrating, that is, if you were to make the cycle into a spherical standing wave the resonates; however, it is not moving in the way that we humans think that we are moving in, which is linear motion. That is because it goes around and always reaches the dot which is both the beginning and the end that thus it is not really a motion as in a progressing motion, like linear motion is defined as. That is my description of the word "cycle".

the Hessian
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by the Hessian » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:08 pm


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WanderingLands
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by WanderingLands » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:31 pm

"Rational"Wiki is not anything of a serious scholarly work, as grossly exemplified in that article you gave me. First of all, the article, like any other article on "Rational"Wiki, is written in a very grossly immature and snobbish fashion, especially when looking at the alternative scientific community. It throws nothing more than insults against the people who look into ether (such as the people of Aetherometry).

Secondly, on top of the childish insults against the people of Aetherometry, as well as Wilhelm Reich, it falsely accuses them of not being "empirical" enough, and "not standing up to current theories", and as usual, does not even attempt to actually debunk the research of Aetherometry or Orgone energy. This is not at all true, because there has been research into the ether and into orgone energy as researched by Wilhelm Reich, and it has actually been about at least 99% factual. As a matter of fact, here are some proofs.

http://www.orgonelab.org/gardner.htmResponse to Martin Gardner's Attack on Reich
and Orgone Research in the Skeptical Inquirer:http://www.orgonelab.org/gardner.htm
Nine Years of Orgone Energy Measurements: http://www.trettin-tv.de/akademie/orgdaten2x.html
Orgonite Proof: http://www.orgoniseafrica.com/orgonite- ... 5eG8XbF9Jo

By the way, I have an orgonite pendant myself and I know that it works as it has calmed my mind a lot more and it has sent positive energy just as it was intended.

the Hessian
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by the Hessian » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:42 pm

I've got an Orgone Accumulator
It makes me feel greater
I'll see you sometime later
When I'm through with my Accumulator

It's no social integrator
It's a one man isolator
It's a back brain stimulator
It's a cerebral vibrator

Those energy stimulators
Turn your eyeballs into crators
But an Orgone Accumulator
Is a superman creator

It's no social integrator
It's a one man isolator
It's a back brain stimulator
It's a cerebral vibrator

I've got an Orgone Accumulator
And it makes me feel grater
I'll see you sometime later
When I'm through with my Accumulator

Sappho de Miranda
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by Sappho de Miranda » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:52 am

Clever. I like it. :wink:

uwot
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by uwot » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:23 am

Sappho de Miranda wrote:Clever. I like it. :wink:
It's Hawkwind. You probably wouldn't.

Sappho de Miranda
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by Sappho de Miranda » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:01 am

uwot wrote:
Sappho de Miranda wrote:Clever. I like it. :wink:
It's Hawkwind. You probably wouldn't.
I don't mind a bit of psychedelic pop. I was taught by the flower power gen after all. They near as damn had me thinking I was an Astrosapian. 8)

Anyhooo... s'pose I better get back on topic and respond to the idea that the circle that's not a circle but a cycle. Hi ho...

Sappho de Miranda
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by Sappho de Miranda » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:42 am

WanderingLands wrote:
Sappho de Miranda wrote: When you use the word cycle, what meaning are you ascribing to it?
A cycle is pretty much a circle where you repeatedly go around such circle to the exact point from which you start and end to. Technically, it is moving as in vibrating, that is, if you were to make the cycle into a spherical standing wave the resonates; however, it is not moving in the way that we humans think that we are moving in, which is linear motion. That is because it goes around and always reaches the dot which is both the beginning and the end that thus it is not really a motion as in a progressing motion, like linear motion is defined as. That is my description of the word "cycle".
So a cycle is a circle which can be manipulated into becoming, either intellectually or in reality a sphere... yes? I assume then that it can be intellectually manipulated into returning to the circle state from the sphere... yes? Does that mean that this concept shifts from a two dimensional to three dimensional thing and vice versa?

Can the start point be known as a point of degrees equidistant from the centre... as in zero degrees? If If no, why not?

Any reason why you are introducing a new concept (sphere) within the stipulation of your understanding of 'circle'?

How does this help me to understand that reality moves and does not move? In other words, why is the function of the stipulation of cycle? What was lacking in the everyday meaning of the word cycle? Is there another word that better explains what you mean about reality moving and not moving?

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WanderingLands
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by WanderingLands » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:15 pm

Sappho de Miranda wrote: So a cycle is a circle which can be manipulated into becoming, either intellectually or in reality a sphere... yes? I assume then that it can be intellectually manipulated into returning to the circle state from the sphere... yes? Does that mean that this concept shifts from a two dimensional to three dimensional thing and vice versa?
Nothing to do with what I actually said. There's nothing to do with "manipulation", or dimensional shifts.
Can the start point be known as a point of degrees equidistant from the centre... as in zero degrees? If If no, why not?
I'm not getting to that aspect of a circle; I'm talking simply of a circle that starts from the beginning to the end point in circular format. That simple.
Any reason why you are introducing a new concept (sphere) within the stipulation of your understanding of 'circle'?


It's not much of a new concept; a circle as a cycle has been known to astrologers/astronomers, who have calculated the cycles of various stars and planets.
How does this help me to understand that reality moves and does not move?


As I've said before, a circle goes in repeated circular motion and so thus is not moving in a progressive way like that of linear motion.
In other words, why is the function of the stipulation of cycle?


To go around repeatedly.
What was lacking in the everyday meaning of the word cycle?
I didn't think that there was much lacking in the word 'cycle'. I believe that it has been understood as repeated circular motion.
Is there another word that better explains what you mean about reality moving and not moving?
I don't think so, though I am not exact.

madera
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by madera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:41 pm

WanderingLands wrote:
Sappho de Miranda wrote:
cycle
ˈsʌɪk(ə)l/Submit
noun

2.
move in or follow a regularly repeated sequence of events.
You are illogical sir. To cycle is to move. Either that or you fail to stipulate the way in which you intend to use the word cycle.
Alright well, please note that I'm not really taking it in a literal, etymological sense, which is a moot point since words like 'cycle' (and pretty much almost all words) have very vague definitions which give room for more metaphysical contemplation on it, which is what I am doing here.
Wandering
Don.t waste your breath trying to explain the spiritual to the worldly minds.
Their minds have been closed and their understanding is of this world.

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WanderingLands
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by WanderingLands » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:14 pm

madera wrote: Wandering
Don.t waste your breath trying to explain the spiritual to the worldly minds.
Their minds have been closed and their understanding is of this world.
You are right. It sure would be a blunder on my part to further argue with those who only come here to intimidate. Thank you.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:30 pm

madera wrote:...
Wandering
Don.t waste your breath trying to explain the spiritual to the worldly minds.
How very spiritual of you.
Their minds have been closed and their understanding is of this world.
And yet you wish to claim that your understanding is of this world?

madera
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by madera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:58 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
madera wrote:...
Wandering
Don.t waste your breath trying to explain the spiritual to the worldly minds.
How very spiritual of you.
Their minds have been closed and their understanding is of this world.
And yet you wish to claim that your understanding is of this world?
Where did you ever get that idea?

the Hessian
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by the Hessian » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:56 pm

madera wrote: Wandering
Don.t waste your breath trying to explain the spiritual to the worldly minds.
Their mines have been closed and their understanding is of this world.
WanderingLands wrote: You are right. It sure would be a blunder on my part to further argue with those who only come here to intimidate. Thank you.
So the conversation deadpools. And the whole thread becomes a performance paying homage to its title and the discouraging consequences of misconceiving truth: people unable to engage other people in productive ways.

I think the persistence of people's inability to engage other people in productive ways is a fundamental problem. That's why I'm invested in this conversation.

Look, I've done the courtesy of reading very carefully everything that has been posted, including reading every word of all of the material that was hyperlinked into the discussion. I've done so with an extremely open mind.

The fact that a group of people can't even productively engage with something as obviously flawed as Orgone Energy or Aetherometry doesn't inspire much hope for people's ability to productively engage with the more pressing and nuanced problems facing us today.

After thinking about this some more, the failure is on you.

I can understand and sympathize with your feeling "frustrated," "depressed" and "alienated from society."

But to effectively demand that others...
  • reject all existing knowledge and "start from scratch"
  • discount the utility of their reason in examining assumptions, checking for coherence in definitions and assuring validity of conclusions
  • overlook or ignore instances of incoherence between beliefs and actual experiences of the real world
  • adopt a paranoid orientation toward anyone who might question what they are doing


...as a pre-requisite of their being worth expending breath on, is breath-takingly delusional.

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HexHammer
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Re: Misconceiving Truth

Post by HexHammer » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:13 am

WanderingLands wrote:There are those who want to know the truth, but many of them have not found it. They become frustrated and depressed.
99.99% of this forum doesn't have a fucking clue, they can only parrot things and live in a delusion of thruth, when they only know babble and nonsense. That doesn't automaticly lead to depression.

One only gets depressed by fustration when one can't find a pleasing answer, weather it be babble or actual truth.

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