Get a clue?

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Blaggard
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Get a clue?

Post by Blaggard »

A lot of philosophy is of course quite abstract and often it's pretty unusual too if not downright obscure and unfathomable to the lay man at least, and it often draws on some very abstract and esoteric texts to make it's point, making it in and of itself quite hard to digest; I suppose what I am saying is it's often very hard to get into, anyone who has ever tried to wade through some of the more verbose philosophers, or those who sought to invent language such as Hegel probably knows this well enough. There are some philosophers of course you can approach with no understanding of the subject, but for the most part if it is about say free will, ontology and so on it needs at least a basic grasp of the concepts, and that is of course no bad thing. Sophie's love is of course a lovely thing and her text approachable to those willing to take the time to persist.

So with that in mind give us a clue to some more approachable philosophies.

I would of put this in a literature of philosophy forum but I think it has more scope than books, there are of course many diverse mediums in any subject so wax lyrical on a clue, I think the overall theme is more general but feel free to wax lyrical on that too..?

:)
Ginkgo
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Ginkgo »

Blaggard wrote:A lot of philosophy is of course quite abstract and often it's pretty unusual too if not downright obscure and unfathomable to the lay man at least, and it often draws on some very abstract and esoteric texts to make it's point, making it in and of itself quite hard to digest; I suppose what I am saying is it's often very hard to get into, anyone who has ever tried to wade through some of the more verbose philosophers, or those who sought to invent language such as Hegel probably knows this well enough. There are some philosophers of course you can approach with no understanding of the subject, but for the most part if it is about say free will, ontology and so on it needs at least a basic grasp of the concepts, and that is of course no bad thing. Sophie's love is of course a lovely thing and her text approachable to those willing to take the time to persist.

So with that in mind give us a clue to some more approachable philosophies.

I would of put this in a literature of philosophy forum but I think it has more scope than books, there are of course many diverse mediums in any subject so wax lyrical on a clue, I think the overall theme is more general but feel free to wax lyrical on that too..?

:)

I tend to think the subject is better approached via themes rather than individual philosophers. For example, one might consider the theme of permanence and change. It is possible to trace this idea from Greek philosophy through to modern formulations. The same pretty much goes for many philosophical themes. Some themes can disappear for a few hundred years only to reappear at a later date.
Blaggard
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Blaggard »

Ok so what are some good themes in your opinion and where might someone who is a bit of a numpty start, doesn't matter about popularity of course, popularity is for chumps. j/k
Ginkgo
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Ginkgo »

Blaggard wrote:Ok so what are some good themes in your opinion and where might someone who is a bit of a numpty start, doesn't matter about popularity of course, popularity is for chumps. j/k
Perhaps you could use permanence versus change as a means of investigating both the pre-Socratic and post-Socratic philosophers of Greece. This would cover most of the significant figures, such a Plato and Aristotle.
Blaggard
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Blaggard »

I've tackled both but somewhat superficially so thanks for the advice. :)
thedoc
Posts: 6473
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by thedoc »

Blaggard wrote:Ok so what are some good themes in your opinion and where might someone who is a bit of a numpty start, doesn't matter about popularity of course, popularity is for chumps. j/k

Yes but those 'chumps' are sometimes making a lot of money on that popularity. And that popularity, with the masses, makes it difficult for 'real philosophy' to get any attention. I have to agree with some of the posters here that most of the unwashed masses don't have any idea what philosophy really deals with. I'm a bit rusty on most of it so I don't stick my 2 cents in where I'm not up to date.
Blaggard
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Blaggard »

Well doc being as I don't have a lot of currency you can stick your 2c in and I am sure it is worth more than my pound of flesh.
Impenitent
Posts: 2995
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Impenitent »

Mortimer Adler - 6 great ideas

-Imp
thedoc
Posts: 6473
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by thedoc »

Impenitent wrote:Mortimer Adler - 6 great ideas

-Imp
And could you tell us what those "Great Ideas" are?
Impenitent
Posts: 2995
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Impenitent »

thedoc wrote:
Impenitent wrote:Mortimer Adler - 6 great ideas

-Imp
And could you tell us what those "Great Ideas" are?
Truth-Goodness-Beauty-Liberty-Equality-Justice

-Imp
Advocate
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Blaggard post_id=168363 time=1400012793 user_id=9695]
A lot of philosophy is of course quite abstract and often it's pretty unusual too if not downright obscure and unfathomable to the lay man at least, and it often draws on some very abstract and esoteric texts to make it's point, making it in and of itself quite hard to digest; I suppose what I am saying is it's often very hard to get into, anyone who has ever tried to wade through some of the more verbose philosophers, or those who sought to invent language such as Hegel probably knows this well enough. There are some philosophers of course you can approach with no understanding of the subject, but for the most part if it is about say free will, ontology and so on it needs at least a basic grasp of the concepts, and that is of course no bad thing. Sophie's love is of course a lovely thing and her text approachable to those willing to take the time to persist.

So with that in mind give us a clue to some more approachable philosophies.

I would of put this in a literature of philosophy forum but I think it has more scope than books, there are of course many diverse mediums in any subject so wax lyrical on a clue, I think the overall theme is more general but feel free to wax lyrical on that too..?

:)
[/quote]

That is a large part of why philosophy is stalled - it's so esoteric that even the people making it up don't understand it. No, the answer to philosophy is the same as the answer to any intractably complex issue, like physics or love or economics; a story or set of maxims that are simple enough to be commonly understood and complete enough to manage contingencies effectively. While a story is an appropriate format, Sophie's World and The Alchemist, and so forth ("popular philosophy") books are terrible because a narrative version of the story isn't necessary or sufficient.
Advocate
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Advocate »

>I tend to think the subject is better approached via themes rather than individual philosophers. For example, one might consider the theme of permanence and change. It is possible to trace this idea from Greek philosophy through to modern formulations. The same pretty much goes for many philosophical themes. Some themes can disappear for a few hundred years only to reappear at a later date.

How many divisions are you thinking of? How do you determine where one ends and the next begins for practical purposes? Do you have a list of likely examples?
Advocate
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Get a clue?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Ginkgo post_id=168368 time=1400015685 user_id=7624]
[quote="Blaggard"]Ok so what are some good themes in your opinion and where might someone who is a bit of a numpty start, doesn't matter about popularity of course, popularity is for chumps. j/k[/quote]

Perhaps you could use permanence versus change as a means of investigating both the pre-Socratic and post-Socratic philosophers of Greece. This would cover most of the significant figures, such a Plato and Aristotle.
[/quote]

Change is the universal substrate of the physical universe and space, time, energy, matter, causality, entropy, etc. are all variations on that theme. Permanence is only temporary because it's relative to patterns we choose into being according to our own purposes. This distinction is explored across many dimensions here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... y_X2Kbneo/ and the underlying metaphysics here: tiny.cc/TheWholeStory
Post Reply