computer consciousness

[HexHammer]

there is no unconsious or consious sensing without sense information. Old or new sense information in the nerve systems. learned patterns like language and other abstract "things".

A robot can sense information, and it can store it, ergo you say a robot is automaticly concious?

[Ginkgo]

Perhaps a solution to the Hex and Mark Question disagreement might be found if we claim that experience and awareness are sufficient for consciousness, but necessary for consciousness.

[Mark Question]

there is no unconsious or consious sensing without sense information. Old or new sense information in the nerve systems. learned patterns like language and other abstract "things".

A robot can sense information, and it can store it, ergo you say a robot is automaticly concious?

what is a robot and what is Concious? what they mean?


Formula One car have wings, ergo it is automatically angel.

if something seems to be concious then it is.

[Mark Question]

A robot is a mechanical or virtual artificial agent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot
Artificiality (also called factitiousness) is the state of being the product of intentional human manufacture, rather than occurring naturally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificiality
Consciousness is the quality or state of self-awareness, or, of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

Child or robot can be both a product of intentional human manufacturer and occur naturally that way. They can be also both accidentally produced beings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck_in_science
Babies are as artificial as robots. Biological and Chemical warfare is as natural as asphalt. Everything is natural in natural world.

Robotic vacuum cleaner seems to have some kind of conscious too.

[Ginkgo]

A robot is a mechanical or virtual artificial agent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot
Artificiality (also called factitiousness) is the state of being the product of intentional human manufacture, rather than occurring naturally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificiality
Consciousness is the quality or state of self-awareness, or, of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

Child or robot can be both a product of intentional human manufacturer and occur naturally that way. They can be also both accidentally produced beings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck_in_science
Babies are as artificial as robots. Biological and Chemical warfare is as natural as asphalt. Everything is natural in natural world.

Robotic vacuum cleaner seems to have some kind of conscious too.

Consciousness is a very broad term so one could say that a robot vacuum cleaner is consciousness. It can sense its environment and can maneuver its way around a lounge room avoiding obstacles and not going over the same area twice. However, a robot vacuum cleaner does not know, "what it is like?" to clean a room. In other words, the vacuum cleaner, unlike a human using a vacuum cleaner it has no experiences.

So yes, we can say the robot vacuum cleaner is conscious to some extent in the same way as we can say a protozoa is conscious to some extent. But we can also say that a vacuum cleaner doesn't know "what it is like" to vacuum a lounge room, in the same way as a protozoa doesn't know "what it is like" to be a protozoa. So using consciousness in a broad terms is not that uncommon, so I don't have a problem with it.

Vacuuming is pretty boring in my experience anyway.

[Mark Question]

Are you demanding higher levels of consciousness?
robotic vacuum cleaner who chants "Boring! " when cleaning the Room?
does it seem to feel bored? why not?
better robotic vacuum cleaners can measure and remember the room. they have experience about that room. they can have higher level learning systems. they could teamwork in a flock or swarm and use or develop own language and teammoral or social rules. help each others, cry for help, attack against mentally broken team mate, feel bad if not following the rules. etc.
why higher levels of consciousness are not possible to machines?

[Ginkgo]

Are you demanding higher levels of consciousness?

I'm not sure that "higher levels" is the right terminology. I would say that I am acknowledging the experiential aspect of consciousness.

robotic vacuum cleaner who chants "Boring! " when cleaning the Room?
does it seem to feel bored? why not?

No its isn't actually bored. It is programed to solicit a bored response, but machines can't actually be bored.

better robotic vacuum cleaners can measure and remember the room. they have experience about that room. they can have higher level learning systems. they could teamwork in a flock or swarm and use or develop own language and teammoral or social rules. help each others, cry for help, attack against mentally broken team mate, feel bad if not following the rules. etc.
why higher levels of consciousness are not possible to machines?

According to emergence theory of consciousness this will happen in the future because of the ever increasing complexity being build into machines. In a similar fashion the experiential aspect of consciousness has come about because organisms have developed complex brains. The theory states that when a certain level of complexity is reached the experiential aspect of consciousness will appear, or emerge from this complexity.

At this stage, even the most ardent supporter of AI would not want to claim machines have experience in the same way as humans have experience.

[Mark Question]

Are you demanding higher levels of consciousness?

No its isn't actually bored. It is programed to solicit a bored response, but machines can't actually be bored.

At this stage, even the most ardent supporter of AI would not want to claim machines have experience in the same way as humans have experience.

if babies are made and robots are made by homo sapiens-apes and they both seem to have bored responces then why they are not actually bored?

“No man ever steps in the same river twice”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus
what do even the most ardent supporter of AI mean by "same way"? robots are not humans?

[Ginkgo]

if babies are made and robots are made by homo sapiens-apes and they both seem to have bored responces then why they are not actually bored?

“No man ever steps in the same river twice”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus
what do even the most ardent supporter of AI mean by "same way"? robots are not humans?

Perhaps we could say that 'experience' produced by silicon chips, is not the same type of experience produced by neurons. So babies actually get bored because they are not made of silicon chips. Not a very good way of saying it but it's the best I can do at the moment.

AI people would acknowledge this important difference at the moment, but would quickly add that given enough time silicon chips will eventually mimic human experience exactly.

[HexHammer]

what is a robot and what is Concious? what they mean?


Formula One car have wings, ergo it is automatically angel.

if something seems to be concious then it is.

Robot = look it up for youself lazy bum! Conciousness is apparently something scientists are creating these days in computers, that cozy chatters are too lazy to read up upon, and must have others to "feed" them the info, look it up.
Read about the Google-car.

Now you are just stooping down to stupid anologies.

[Mark Question]

Perhaps we could say that 'experience' produced by silicon chips, is not the same type of experience produced by neurons. So babies actually get bored because they are not made of silicon chips. Not a very good way of saying it but it's the best I can do at the moment.

AI people would acknowledge this important difference at the moment, but would quickly add that given enough time silicon chips will eventually mimic human experience exactly.

why boredom produced by neurons is actual boredom and boredom produced by silicon is not?
what you mean by "actual"?

does silicon chips eventually mimic human boredom exactly? what is the difference between exact mimic and the real thing?

btw. friend of mine told funny and scary story about his sisters robotic lawn mower who went crazy and took full speed jump "over the hill and far away"..luckily no casualties this time. :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8gXzDLNWl8