Oh my god, it really has become too big. Hope you don't mind me answering only Chapter 1 today.The Voice of Time wrote:This one-on-one discussion is starting to become so big that I'm gonna divide it up into two chapters. Chapter 1:
I see. Family can be tough with you sometimes.I went on my first trip just because I felt like it, however, while on my trip I decided to make it into an escape from my life and my parents, so it became a kind of fleeing from my parents. In this way, I didn't have a home, but I don't think a home would really make for a good place to philosophize like I did, because your home doesn't inspire the right thoughts, it becomes a lot of echo instead.
Personally, if I ever needed to flee from their house, it would only be if they tried to impose their lifestyle on me. Because I'm sure they will eventually press me to settle down, start a family, etc. (they used to press me to do normal teenage-stuff like going out with friends) and they probably wouldn't understand if I told them I want none of those things. For a normal person, my parents would be perfect. But I guess I'm not the normal son they would've really liked to have.
If you had a bigger problem with your parents then I'm sorry: my story must sound to you like a lot of gibberish. Maybe I'm just capricious, and that's all. But I guess we've all had problems at home also as part of growing up. It was difficult for me to realize my parents were not the righteous heroic people I used to idolize when I was younger.
All right, I know what you mean now. I also like to study people. It's funny though that I analyse different aspects of a person. While you think whether their acts inspire you or not (That was what you meant, right?), my questions are more like: "What's life like for him/her? What motivates him/her to wake up every morning? What do they want in life?". These questions can't be answered rightaway, but based on the people I've already had a chance to meet, I come up with a sort of hypothetical answers. If I have a chance to talk to them a bit (even superficially) I can test them out.I'm a big anti-absolutist, and this also shines in my use of the term "role model", because what I really tried to say, is that I studied people, to try and find ideas that I could use in the formation of my own character and thoughts. It wasn't about copying anyone, but letting people exceedingly inspire me, either by example or contra-example, what is possible and how it is possible, and then letting me decide what I should become from it, not as a group of predetermined preset roles, but as pieces I can shape my own kind of character from.
I guess it could be said I don't care about what they do (At least in what respects Ethics, I'm an anti-absolutist like you: I believe I don't have a right to claim something is good or wrong, simply because I'm not in somebody else's shoes) but rather, I want to know why they do what they do.
Am I making any sense? Gosh, sometimes I believe there is a very thin line in philosophy between writing genius arguments and mumbling nonsense. I can't honestly say which of the two I just did.
Well, maybe it doesn't happen in Norway. But as far as I know, not many people care about what goes on with strangers. Few are altruistic enough to be generous with a blind man, I guess even less would care about some stranger who came down with a flu.What? That sounds really awful, if anything, that should be their biggest reason to give you anything. If you wanted to waste it on something I could've understood, but as long as you're not a hypochondriac, it seems rather chilly of them to not support your health should you need it.
Suppose so. Unless it gets late or something and nobody wants to pick you up in the dark night. Oh, there I am again thinking about all the things that could go wrong, lol.True, but then there's always a new car sooner or later.
The way you put it really doesn't do them much good hahaha. Are they too individualistic, then? I imagined the war veteran (if he was not too affected by the war) must have profound stories to tell. After all, being alive after that situation should give you a new perspective or insight on how to live life? Or at least that's what I suppose. That's probably what made him become a pacifist now. I'd ask him if he believes "amor vincit omnia" (if he's a true hippie, he should lol).Uhm, not really. The war veteran has become a staunch pacifist trying to forget his past, with this hippy like attitude and hair style and spends a lot of time looking after his fish and his cat and try to stay away from alcohol. The nurse-guy doesn't really talk much and is often away or in his room or making food, his only interest seems to be a girl (or girls, I never remember if it's the same girl he brings home) and the Red Cross where he leads the local search party, it's not like he's been abroad or anything. The electrician really doesn't like me for totally stupid reasons and I personally think he's a bit of a psycho, not in an outwardly manner, but he seems to spend a lot of time cultivating his hatred for me as he expresses very clearly, though he's been calm and civil as of late, he's not really a guy it's easy to talk with... he's basically a bit of a xenophobe with regards to the house, perceiving me as a threatening new arrival, and he's twice my age.
The Red Cross guy could also have interesting things to say. I mean, because of the labor he does.
Don't pay attention to me, it's easy to imagine all kinds of interesting things in them as an outsider, but I don't know how you perceive them and how they perceive you. If there's a big age difference, as you said, that fact can repel interactions.
Maybe, yes, but she also said she felt so because of the kind of people that were around. It could be that out of stereotypes she misjudged some people, or it may also be that she happened to pass by some street gang or something. I don't know really.Well she could have overreacted. Some people are scared of the dark, despite the fact that the dark is rarely followed by scary things except in horror movies.
Not a bad guess in that case then hahaha. Though China or India would've been good choices too statistically speaking (I'm not sure if these forums aren't censored in China anyway). Actually, I'm from South America (you would've never guessed right, I know lol).No idea where you come from, if I'd have to guess I would've guessed the US, just out of a statistical probability. I just brought it up as an example however.
Yes, you knew what I meant.That's not a proper adjective in this situation, but I guess you're just using it as a collective for environmental friendliness and natural product friendliness... and yes, we are, except of course we are the third biggest gas producer in the world, and fifth biggest oil producer (mostly export though), however, as far as I know, we don't have any power run on oil or gas for our primary electrical infrastructure, that's virtually all renewable energy, mainly hydropower, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricit ... _in_Norway). We variably import and export electricity over national borders however, and for this reason, although we only produce renewable energy for the national electrical grid, we consume non-renewable energy from Sweden and so forth, like nuclear energy etc. As for food, Norwegian food carries very high quality in general, and there's a national policy on local produce, ecological farming and you don't find GMO food in the stores as far as I know, as the Norwegian government doesn't officially recognize it as food unless it manages to fulfil certain criteria, and up until now only one product has ever accomplished all the criteria.
Your country is the envy of all "green conscious" citizens of the world.
True that Norway makes most of its money from oil (so what isn't consumed in one way, goes out the other way) but the fact that renewable energies make up a big share of the energy sources is more than anyone could ask for in the present.
But is it really so? Are there no poor homeless folks around? I was especially curious about the immigrants of poorer African countries. Does the Norwegian welfare state take care of them?Very much yes, egalitarianism is a strong underlying national principle.
Same-sex marriage, abortion law... I'm impressed.Very much yes, social liberalism is another doctrine of modern Norway.
I actually referred more about its quality and transparency. Many opponents of the welfare state argue that it leads to corruption and big deficits, something which (though it pains me to say it) is sometimes right.Well this depends on who you ask, but I'd say generally a very well-run welfare state, as Norway has one of the highest rates of policy implementation rates in the world. Meaning that when the Norwegian government says it's gonna do something, it does so (election promises not included... there they fail and lie pretty much like any normal country x) though not entirely of course, it's just that as with most politicians, they promise more than they can give, and so it's a roll of dice if you actually get what you vote for)
Hahaha I take that as "We basically have nothing else to achieve". Measuring happiness is difficult anyway, as long as economically Norwegians are ok, I doubt the country would go down in the "happiness" ratings.What more could we have? Well, according to the Human Development Index we are the best in the world. And we're almost the richest in the world, only beaten by a couple of city-states and Qatar (homeland of Al-Jazeera)... we make the United Arab Emirates look poor xD So I guess what remains is becoming the definite richest, keeping the spot on top of being the most developed, and trying to capture the 1st place on the happiness index as well, where we are on top, and may have captured a first spot once or twice, but rankings are rather unreliable and it varies a lot between rankings, so we'll have to work harder to stay on top and be definite number 1. Time to start painting some smileys!
Well said! It's not always easy to find a gas station nearby thoughIt did happen that I could not figure out where to ponder my way further, yes, but then I spent more time absorbing the surroundings to get inspiration... it's a bit like looking for fuel, or resources in general. Inspiration is fuel, and when you're empty, you gotta get some more.
Thanks for dumbing it down to me! When I looked it up, it was all about some kind of function with trivial zeros or something, it was all greek to me.It's about the distribution of prime numbers when you count from one to infinity... how often prime numbers occur, as opposed to even and odd numbers. Prime numbers are the atoms of all numbers, they are the building blocks from which we get even and odd numbers. Figuring out the distribution could have wide-ranging consequences and potentially lead to really powerful mathematics... Think of it as the "holy grail" of mathematics x)
I know what you mean about primes. Every composite number must be composed by them, right? I never gave much thought to the distribution anyway. It always seemed like there was no possible pattern in their appearance!
I don't particularly enjoy it. But hey, we are imperfect, we are human. And when I make mistakes, I like to be given another chance. Sometimes one doesn't realize the wrong you did.I don't think it wise to make it a principle for yourself, that could be problematic. But if you genuinely enjoy giving people a chance, then you should do it... but don't be polite just to give yourself dissatisfaction, that's not helping anyone.
Maybe it's because they think I want the same kind of superficial relationship they're looking for too? It could be you're right, I may have to be bolder and franker, even if it may make them a bit uncomfortable.Seems you need practise in learning to read people more. If you want straight answers you should ask for it, you can't expect people to serve you your uncommunicated requests on a silver plate, people simply aren't like that. If you want them to be frank with you, then be frank to them first.
Wow, thanks for this deep analysis.Not as such, your friendship is not the commodity, but what you could potentially do together is. You can't expect to grow a friendship if you don't have any nourished soil, seedlings and water. The friendship is the relationship between you two, the set of shared memories you have for instance, your in-between culture, and any mutually understood loyalties. But these are products which require the necessary resources to develop, these things require commodities you must supply. Once you've built them, they are there, but they won't grow, and although slowly, they will rust with time (though in a way that they can be brought back more easily... it's a bit like a house gathering dust... if you decide to clean it, it'll still be the same house you left, but it will gather dust with time, and still need cleaning to stay as it were). Let's explore it just a bit more:
1) In order to develop shared memories, you'll have to supply efficient mutual interests to pursue. If the mutual interests are inefficient, you'll have a slow and potentially unsatisfactory development, if the mutual interests are efficient, you'll have a fast-growing and rich development, it'll still take time of course, but at least you're on the right track.
2) You must be able to offer a feeling of uniqueness, that you are not just a simple expendable person, in a friendship sense. You have to make yourself feel special, something somebody wants to be part of. Everyone has a strong side and/or good side, they just have to find it or learn to recognize it, but sometimes, the desires of the potential friend simply matches something what you're good at or something that you are (both me and my friend were the fattest guys in our school... so we shared obesity xD), and this makes you feel like you belong to the same thing, which over time can grow into a culture... a distinct way of talking to one another, a distinct way of behaving and responding to one another, a distinct view of yourself in contrast to the world, and so forth... supply an identity, in other words. "What are we?".
3) Coming from the same or similar house or local culture can give you both an underlying sense of loyalty to one another, but the best way to inspire loyalty is to create a sense of "bromance"... like romance, just not in a sexual or girlfriend-boyfriend kind of way, but between guys. Or in other words, grant a reason for affection to develop, the natural glue of societies. Is there a recipe for affection? I have no good enough answer for this, but a feeling of certainty and dependability are surely strong factors, but these must be seen in relation to what an individual desires, it is in relation to what they desire to be able to be certain about and depend on. They have to find themselves in you, I guess, something about you must inspire them to allow their heart to get at peace with you. And the conditions for this will vary among people, but I think most people DO NOT like people who are overly interested in them, because that doesn't give them enough time to evaluate you, however, some people do like it fast as well, though I am sceptical if their way of doing it might not be a bit... unstable... pure speculation from my perspective of course.
Let me see.
I don't agree with this statement: "these are products which require the necessary resources to develop, these things require commodities you must supply." Or rather, I think something's missing. I believe I supply all the possible commodities I can bring into a relationship - esp. the most important one: my time -. But then either they don't supply their share or something's missing that none of us can supply. As you said; interests, cultural bonds, or uniqueness.
It's funny about the first point you make (about mutual interests) because I practically don't have much in common with my best friend I met at school. We are both "nerds", but he is a big fan of TV shows and movies, while I'm a nerdy guy in the other sense of the word: I prefer to read books, philosophizing and learning. So it was weird, because he could never talk about movies with me and I could never talk much about literature with him. Maybe it was sharing common experiences at school? Could it be that our environment united us?
I liked what you said in your third point: "a feeling of certainty and dependability are surely strong factors (...) They have to find themselves in you, I guess, something about you must inspire them to allow their heart to get at peace with you." I agree with this 100%. It's exactly that, dependability and certainty which I can't find in my common relations. I guess I just haven't searched enough(?).
Bromance is a good way to define what I'm looking for. I want someone I could be as intimate as I could be with a girlfriend, not in the sexual way of course but emotionally. Someone to open up to, someone who does not think the world revolves around checking girls out and following their favourite football team. So yeah, maybe interests play a part in it too. Guess my search proves so difficult because we men are even less likely to show our emotions and stuff. It could be I'm just a sissy and that's all lol.
I'm sorry I didn't analyse your message more thoroughly, but it's getting late and I'm feeling sleepy. The rebuttal of Chapter 2 comes tomorrow