~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

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uwot
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by uwot »

mattsidedish wrote:Bill's conclusion of what makes a 'legitimate philosopher' is not unfalsifiable.
Great. So falsify it.
mattsidedish wrote:He has provided us no information as to what categorizes one except a general statement of feeling 'I am here.'
Well, that's Bill for you. Parmenides started off with 'Being is'; there's nothing wrong with starting with something that seems trivial, but there's no sign yet that Bill intends to move beyond it.
mattsidedish wrote:This is not a justification and is perfectly open to scrutiny because it is not only nonsensical, but justifiably logically invalid.
Credit where it's due: when Bill typed 'I am here', he almost certainly was there, making that statement not only valid and sound, but quite a collectors piece.
mattsidedish wrote:We (being the community here) have generally not respected it (as you can read above),
Indeed. It doesn't match any of the criteria suggested ArisingUK or John Locke; what's to respect?
About this community of yours; how does one join?
mattsidedish wrote:and we also oppose it violently not because it's not worth agreeing on, but because of the lack of justification for his subjective differentiation. Bill has every opportunity in the world to fix this if he would decide to give us a definition of the term. He has failed to do so as of yet. His definition is, "the term denotes the term."
He plays it safe. If he ever said anything that meant something, he might have to defend it.
mattsidedish wrote:So, Bill, are you ready to answer the question?
Don't hold your breath, mattsidedish.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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GREAT post.


I like your insight.

I feel as if I have been crystal clear as to my focus and message in this and many other related threads that I have addressed self-consciousness.



Thank you
for adding a breath of fresh air here.






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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:...
I feel as if I have been crystal clear as to my focus and message in this and many other related threads that I have addressed self-consciousness. ...
And there we have the issue, as you only use your feelings to think and pay no attention to what others say as to whether your message is clear or not.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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I think you may be thinking too much.


Self-observation,
when done correctly, seems and feels extremely simple.


Holding that feeling of self-consciousness is monumental.







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Image







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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:I think you may be thinking too much.
Do you, I disagree.
Self-observation, when done correctly, seems and feels extremely simple.
Give us an example of how it is done correctly.
[size]Holding that feeling of self-consciousness is monumental.[/size]
I'll take your word for it. Give us an example of an issue or problem in your life that it has solved?
p.s.
I can write a fractal display program, what did you mean by its use?
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Errrr...I can't give you an example. This isn't a thing.


It's a state of being.


If you cannot understand the concept of observing yourself, no one can do it for you. No one can give it to you.

I think you don't go into self-observation as a means to an end. You don't self-observe to obtain a thing on the outside so to speak.


An individual may wish to observe themselves or change their state of being to increase their understanding of themselves...and what is not self.


I added the fractal display as a point of focus.
Observing something that changes and yet does not.

I felt this type of GIF would relate to a feeling of soothing of self-observation.







* Unexpectedly...the discipline of self-observation made my life worth living in the most extraordinary way.



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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Errrr...I can't give you an example. This isn't a thing.

It's a state of being.
Which involves doing what exactly?
If you cannot understand the concept of observing yourself, no one can do it for you. No one can give it to you.

I think you don't go into self-observation as a means to an end. You don't self-observe to obtain a thing on the outside so to speak.
So what have you self-observed about yourself?
An individual may wish to observe themselves or change their state of being to increase their understanding of themselves...and what is not self.
And what have you discovered or understood about yourself and what is not self?
I added the fractal display as a point of focus. Observing something that changes and yet does not.
It does change, its scale changes.
I felt this type of GIF would relate to a feeling of soothing of self-observation.
See what I mean about how you mistake your feelings for truth or fact.
Unexpectedly...the discipline of self-observation made my life worth living in the most extraordinary way.
How is this discipline practiced and what did it do that made your life more extraordinary?
mattsidedish
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by mattsidedish »

Image
uwot
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by uwot »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:An individual may wish to observe themselves or change their state of being to increase their understanding of themselves...and what is not self.
Maybe, but if you cannot tell people how to do so, what use is your saying it?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:I added the fractal display as a point of focus. Observing something that changes and yet does not.

I felt this type of GIF would relate to a feeling of soothing of self-observation.
How does observing something else enhance self observation? Are you not making an empiricist point, that there is no self that is separable from sensory stimulation? Can you, in your opinion, observe yourself without any reference to the external world? Would someone born into a flotation tank, with no sensory input know they were there?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:* Unexpectedly...the discipline of self-observation made my life worth living in the most extraordinary way.
I'm genuinely pleased for you Bill. If this is something that may help others, do you not feel a responsibility to at least try and share the technique?
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Not a troll but a gnu.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Think of the exercise of self-observation in the same way as a physical exercise.

I can tell you
about working-out, lifting weights, or running but that in no-way is the same as doing-it.


As in philosophy, there comes a point in life where you must just do it.

There are some here who, like me, are quite old.

When you read about, lets say, a weight-lifter or when that weight-lifter describes a certain way to do an exercise...in reading that you in no way are actually doing the exercise itself or getting the benefit from doing the actual exercise.

So, in the same way, you ask me to keep describing how to lift this weight. Just do it.

Become a philosopher. At a certain point, stop making reading your focus of real philosophy.


Reading is vital for a fledgling philosopher.
A young adult.






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I do not feel a responsibility to at least try and share the technique.

I already have; in the past few threads that I have created.


...it's a natural re-action to want to make things more complicated...or to keep looking.

That's not necessary. Observe yourself. Whenever you thought comes to you. Try to increase the times and duration of your self-observation. Nothing more.


You must fight, find, and feel that clarity that comes after seemingly impossible struggles with your individual egos.

Self-consciousness may lead to a higher state of consciousness. But first – you gotta lift.


Nothing else matters.






...............................................Image








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uwot
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by uwot »

Lift what, Bill?
When you look at yourself, what do you see? Is there anything that isn't dependent on sensory input?
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Think of the exercise of self-observation in the same way as a physical exercise.

I can tell you
about working-out, lifting weights, or running but that in no-way is the same as doing-it.


As in philosophy, there comes a point in life where you must just do it.

There are some here who, like me, are quite old.

When you read about, lets say, a weight-lifter or when that weight-lifter describes a certain way to do an exercise...in reading that you in no way are actually doing the exercise itself or getting the benefit from doing the actual exercise.

So, in the same way, you ask me to keep describing how to lift this weight. Just do it.
:roll: Pretty much word-for-word a repost of your past reply when asked for the techniques you use to achieve this 'state of being'.

So once again I'll point-out that unless one is taught the techniques for weight-lifting for exercise one is mainly wasting their time and can do oneself an injury. All you are being asked is what are the techniques we should use or that you use, not much to ask, any proficient weight-lifter could supply such things. Its why I think you a gnu as you cannot talk the walk nor I suspect walk the talk.
Become a philosopher. At a certain point, stop making reading your focus of real philosophy.
Dur! I can only assume you have read no philosophy per se as pretty much anyone who does finds that it affects their life focus.


I do not feel a responsibility to at least try and share the technique. ...
lmao. Freud! Come on down!
I already have; in the past few threads that I have created.
Where? The ones where you suggest natural anti-depressants? Exercising until exhaustion and then laying on your back? Being depressed and despondent?
...it's a natural re-action to want to make things more complicated...or to keep looking.
Then you should be able to give a simple explanation.
That's not necessary. Observe yourself. Whenever you thought comes to you. Try to increase the times and duration of your self-observation. Nothing more.
Does this include the thought 'Observe yourself'?
You must fight, find, and feel that clarity that comes after seemingly impossible struggles with your individual egos.
What happens if one doesn't appear to have these impossible struggles?
Self-consciousness may lead to a higher state of consciousness. But first – you gotta lift.
Actually no, first you gotta get fit so you can sit in perfect repose.
Nothing else matters.
"Nothing else matters to me." - FTFY
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Yes, completely. EVERYTHING is sensory input. What we need to do is to stop projecting and observe all the sensory stimulus around us.

Observe our self in the environment that we find ourselves in AT THIS VERY MOMENT.



GREAT point. Thank you for allowing me to address that.





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uwot
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Re: ~ To be a Legitimate Philosopher in Today's World ~

Post by uwot »

I think I've got it, Bill: to look at yourself, look at the world. Is that it? Can I be excused when I'm mucking out the stables?
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