Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

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Blaggard
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Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:27 pm

Oxford comma ftw.

I wont elaborate too much as I am sure most people are familiar with Nietzsche.

Would Nietzsche have approved of Hitler's will to power? Aside from the obvious racism which Nietzsche was staunchly against that is.

Impenitent
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Impenitent » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:52 pm

Nietzsche had as much use for socialists, national or otherwise, as he did Christians.

-Imp

jackles
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by jackles » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:01 pm

nietzsche identified him self as german so did hitler they both took there identity from the local event as germans.both i think rejected the universal identity of christianity.they nietzscht wagner and hitler can be seen as a package.

Blaggard
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:11 am

jackles wrote:nietzsche identified him self as german so did hitler they both took there identity from the local event as germans.both i think rejected the universal identity of christianity.they nietzscht wagner and hitler can be seen as a package.
Certainly in that they all believed in the potential of the individual to exceed himself by will. Hitler can be said to have done that admirably, that said though there are also clearly obviously divisive areas. Hitler was clearly a megalomaniac, bent on the subjugation of what he called the lesser races. Nietzsche thought the idea of race was cosmetic at best, as with much of his ideas though they were 200 years at least ahead of their time, science now believes that race is a cultural indicator and useful in medicine and other less rigorous scientific disciplines, but does not signify any overall difference amongst what is an extremely homogeneous, relatively speaking, gene pool. I don't think he would of disapproved of Hitler's manipulation of Church and Church doctrine either, Hitler was nominally a Catholic and was on good terms with the Vatican who he regularly invited to state. His intention though was far from antidisestablishmentarianism, his intent was that once it had outlived its usefulness as a propaganda tool, most likely it would be dismantled.

"Our God with us."

The slogan on the belts of German units.
Impenitent wrote:Nietzsche had as much use for socialists, national or otherwise, as he did Christians.

-Imp
Hitler hated communists and he even tried to blame them for the burning of the Reichstag, his nationalist brand of socialism really was unlike any real socialism being as it did not recognise the individuals rights as such, being subordinate to the fatherland in almost all cases as a matter of duty, or indeed the equality of the human being, something that was intrinsic to communism.

jackles
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by jackles » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:05 pm

national socialism is national selfishness.like a wolf pack its there for the selfish regard of the pack.hitler took this view after reading darwin.it was the selfishness of humans with an event id of german that selfishly adored him as a repressentation of there own selfish position which they put over and above there christian virtue.evil reasoning will always put self as its outcome in all situations limiting it to the local idea of identity.thus local identitys end up in a conflict of interest.

John K
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by John K » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:36 am

Blaggard wrote: Would Nietzsche have approved of Hitler's will to power? Aside from the obvious racism which Nietzsche was staunchly against that is.
It's not the will to power he'd have a problem with, since it's an integral part of his philosophy. I do believe he'd oppose the extreme measures Hitler called for in order to carry out his plan.

jackles
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by jackles » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:11 am

these three hitler wagner nietzsche where in universal terms traped or held captive by the event.which in buddist terms means they where attached to the location where they where born .this in its self is a form of evil.the three where arrogant in there love for location.thinking that the body as in race is the self is gross ignorance.

gooner
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by gooner » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:43 am

The last refuge of a scoundrel is patriotism and the first action of a warmonger is flag waving. More evil has been perpetrated under rags on sticks than under any other symbol in the history of mankind. One who sees beyond the imaginary borders man puts up around themselves is untouched by all the jingoistic claptrap served up to the gullible masses under pieces of cloth. Nietzsche, like Wagner were of a vastly ambiguous nature.

Blaggard
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:50 pm

Aye can not disagree gooner:
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials.
Last edited by Blaggard on Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blaggard
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:53 pm

jackles wrote:these three hitler wagner nietzsche where in universal terms traped or held captive by the event.which in buddist terms means they where attached to the location where they where born .this in its self is a form of evil.the three where arrogant in there love for location.thinking that the body as in race is the self is gross ignorance.
I don't get what you mean here, so if you could digress I would appreciate it..?

Nietzsche for example placed no importance on where he was born, actually denying nationalism and saying all men were one race, one weak race admittedly, Thus Spake Zarathustra. ;)

duszek
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by duszek » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:06 pm

Nietzsche said lots of stuff, often seeming contradictory.

He was enigmatic. Un grand enigmateur. A great enigmatizer.

He burst with passionate insights.

Everyone can bite something off and ruminate.

Impenitent
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Impenitent » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:49 pm

duszek wrote:Nietzsche said lots of stuff, often seeming contradictory.

He was enigmatic. Un grand enigmateur. A great enigmatizer.

He burst with passionate insights.

Everyone can bite something off and ruminate.
I thought that was masticate...

-Imp

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HexHammer
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by HexHammer » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Excatly what relevance do Nietzsche have? He's oudated and drags modern philosophy down.

Blaggard
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:42 pm

HexHammer wrote:Excatly what relevance do Nietzsche have? He's oudated and drags modern philosophy down.
How is he outdated?

If anything he was ahead of his time at the time he wrote..?

I'm no Nietzsche worshipper as some are but his contribution to modern existentialism is vast n'est pas?
Last edited by Blaggard on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blaggard
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Re: Hitler, Wagner, and Nietzsche

Post by Blaggard » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:43 pm

Impenitent wrote:
duszek wrote:Nietzsche said lots of stuff, often seeming contradictory.

He was enigmatic. Un grand enigmateur. A great enigmatizer.

He burst with passionate insights.

Everyone can bite something off and ruminate.
I thought that was masticate...

-Imp
Masticate and ruminate both mean to chew, although ruminate is associated with thinking too, ie chewing it over becomes by analogy thinking it over, like a ruminant does regurgitating cud and then rechewing it.

Nerd fact of the day. ;)

Pathology

Extensive research on the effects of rumination, or the tendency to self-reflect, shows that the negative form of rumination interferes with people’s ability to focus on problem-solving and results in dwelling on negative thoughts about past failures.[15] Evidence from studies suggests that the negative implications of rumination are due to cognitive biases, such as memory and attentional biases, which predispose ruminators to selectively devote attention to negative stimuli.[16]

The tendency to negatively ruminate is a stable constant over time and serves as a significant risk factor for clinical depression. Not only are habitual ruminators more likely to become depressed, but experimental studies have demonstrated that people who are induced to ruminate experience greater depressed mood.[3] There is also evidence that rumination is linked to general anxiety, post traumatic stress, binge drinking, eating disorders, and self-injurious behavior.[6]

Rumination was originally believed to predict the duration of depressive symptoms. In other words, ruminating about problems was presumed to be a form of memory rehearsal which was believed to actually lengthen the experience of depression. The evidence now suggests that although rumination contributes to depression, it is not necessarily correlated with the duration of symptoms.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumination ... chology%29

It's kind of interesting how we use very much biological functions to allegorise language, for example inspire means to breath in as does inspirate although it is a verb conjugated with into in the vulgar Latin, and inspiration means... :)
allegory
ˈalɪg(ə)ri/
noun
noun: allegory; plural noun: allegories

1.
a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
Verb 1. allegorise - interpret as an allegoryallegorise - interpret as an allegory
allegorize
construe, interpret, see - make sense of; assign a meaning to; "What message do you see in this letter?"; "How do you interpret his behavior?"
The association is kinda obvious we breathe in before we speak, but the analogy is what is most interesting. :)
in·spi·rate
verb \ˈinzpəˌrāt sometimes -(ˌ)piˌ- or -pēˌ- or chiefly Brit -ˌpīˌ-; ˈin(t)(ˌ)sp-\
-ed/-ing/-s
Full Definition of INSPIRATE
transitive verb
1
archaic : inspire
2
phonet : to articulate during inhalation
Origin of INSPIRATE
L inspiratus, past part. of inspirare to inspire, breathe into
Inspiration becomes to breath life into and so on...
in·spi·ra·tion
[in-spuh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an inspiring or animating action or influence: I cannot write poetry without inspiration.
2.
something inspired, as an idea.
3.
a result of inspired activity.
4.
a thing or person that inspires.
5.
Theology .
a.
a divine influence directly and immediately exerted upon the mind or soul.
b.
the divine quality of the writings or words of a person so influenced.

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