The meaning of life

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Age
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am

Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
What?

"harbal" thinks, sees, or BELIEVES that there is ABSOLUTELY NO 'objective purpose' behind 'Life' or 'existing'. Whereas, I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?

BUT, 'you' are EXACTLY Right "belinda" 'we', (and EVERY one), could and WOULD come to AN AGREEMENT with "each other" IF 'we' were BOTH, (or ALL), more EXPLICIT, and MORE Honest, OPEN, and Wanting to CHANGE as well I will add.
Harbal has made it clear he is talking about his own life, and not 'life' in general.
AND, what have I MADE CLEAR here?

Or, do I ALSO NEED to INFORM you of this AS WELL. Just like "harbal" has, now?
Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am There is no such thing as an objective purpose.
Okay, if this is what you BELIEVE is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, then this is what is IRREFUTABLY TRUE to you, correct?
Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am There is no such THING as a purpose. To purpose is a verb.
AND, what I SAY and CLAIM is the so-called 'objective purpose' here IS A VERB. That is; the purpose for 'Life', Itself, and for ALL of 'you', human beings, IS TO DO the EXACT SAME 'thing'. The 'purpose' IS A DOING, or A VERB, if you like.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote:

(Belinda had written: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am
There is no such thing as an objective purpose.)

Okay, if this is what you BELIEVE is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, then this is what is IRREFUTABLY TRUE to you, correct?
Nobody has ever seen , heard, touched, or smelled a purpose. People have observed what seem to be people and other animals looking as if they purposed to do what they are doing or are about to do. But nobody can ever detect this thing people call
a purpose

Similarly nobody has ever detected this thing people call a meaning. There is no such THING as a meaning. What there is is people meaning some idea such as meaning to go to bed soon, or meaning that roses are pretty, or meaning that they are in love etc etc.

So there is no such THING as meaning of life.
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Harbal
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?
How can anyone agree or disagree with you when you won't say what the "objective purpose" is?
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:17 am Age wrote:

(Belinda had written: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am
There is no such thing as an objective purpose.)

Okay, if this is what you BELIEVE is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, then this is what is IRREFUTABLY TRUE to you, correct?
Nobody has ever seen , heard, touched, or smelled a purpose. People have observed what seem to be people and other animals looking as if they purposed to do what they are doing or are about to do. But nobody can ever detect this thing people call
a purpose
Have you EVER gone to the store to get some 'thing'?

If yes, then you did 'that' ON 'purpose'. That is; you PURPOSELY did some 'thing'. The 'purpose' of you going to the store was to GET some 'thing'.

Could there be an 'objective' 'purpose' for 'you', human beings, being here in 'Life', alive and living?

I SAY, 'Yes', but 'you' SAY, 'No', correct?

What you are proposing here is the SAME AS there proposing NO 'body' has EVER seen, heard, touched, no smelt hope, love, hate, wisdom, mind, anger, happiness, admiration, adoration, aesthetic appreciation, amusement, anger, anxiety, awe, awkwardness, boredom, calmness, confusion, craving, disgust, empathic pain, entrancement, excitement, fear, horror, interest, joy, nostalgia, relief, romance, sadness, satisfaction, sexual desire, nor surprise EITHER, therefore, to you, NO 'body' can detect these things people call 'all of the above'.
Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:17 am Similarly nobody has ever detected this thing people call a meaning. There is no such THING as a meaning. What there is is people meaning some idea such as meaning to go to bed soon, or meaning that roses are pretty, or meaning that they are in love etc etc.

So there is no such THING as meaning of life.
I think you have MISSED the POINT, COMPLETELY.

And, if you would like to CONTINUE on with this DISCUSSION, then GREAT. But, if you BELIEVE you have NOT MISSED ANY thing here and that there is NO such 'thing' as 'meaning' or 'purpose' in Life, and so there is NOTHING further to DISCUSS here, then that is PERFECTLY FINE with me, AS WELL.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:49 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?
How can anyone agree or disagree with you when you won't say what the "objective purpose" is?
ABSOLUTELY NO one has EVER asked me to SAY what the 'objective purpose' IS.

you have ALREADY INFORMED us that there is NO 'objective purpose'. I was just POINTING OUT, by asking, HOW could 'you' and 'I' AGREE here when you STATE and CLAIM that there IS absolutely AND irrefutably NO 'objective purpose' AT ALL and FOREVER MORE, WHEN I am SAYING that I have ALREADY FOUND 'objective purpose'?

It does NOT matter one iota what I say what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY. The POINT I am MAKING here is you CLAIM there is ABSOLUTELY NONE, SO how could 'you' AND 'I' EVER AGREE here?

It would be like SUGGESTING that 'you' AND 'I' could AGREE on 'big foot' WHEN 'you' are CLAIMING, for example, that 'big foot' DOES NOT EXIST WHEN 'I' am STATING that 'I' have ALREADY SEEN and thus FOUND 'big foot'.

If one CLAIMS that some 'thing' DOES NOT EXIST, which, ESSENTIALLY, MEANS FOREVER MORE, then HOW could that one AGREE with "another" who CLAIMS DIFFERENTLY?
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Iwannaplato »

Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:49 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?
How can anyone agree or disagree with you when you won't say what the "objective purpose" is?
If you've expressed an opinion or belief, then you can never change your mind. It cannot possibly happen. (that's an axiom he's got). He uses or used to use anyway 'believe' and 'belief' as terms having to do with only ideas one thinks are true that one cannot change ever and have been arrived at through irrational means. He doesn't believe anything (with one exception, he said, long ago), in this schema.

So:
Person A: There is an X.
Person B: There is no X.

That's it. End of discussion. Go home. Never shall the twain meet.

It is simply not possible for any discussion, arguments, justifications, elicited or other experiences to change someone's mind. :cry:

Or I misunderstood his position, months ago. Or should I say, his belief?
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:59 am ABSOLUTELY NO one has EVER asked me to SAY what the 'objective purpose' IS.
Why do you need to be asked? People write about their ideas on this forum all the time without being asked. That is the "purpose" of the forum; it is a place that was designed for that purpose.
you have ALREADY INFORMED us that there is NO 'objective purpose'. I was just POINTING OUT, by asking, HOW could 'you' and 'I' AGREE here when you STATE and CLAIM that there IS absolutely AND irrefutably NO 'objective purpose' AT ALL and FOREVER MORE, WHEN I am SAYING that I have ALREADY FOUND 'objective purpose'?
I am not aware of any objective purpose, and I am not aware of any reason to think we have an objective purpose, so I tend to think that we do not have an objective purpose. Regardless of what I might have previously said, or the words I might have used to say it, I do not "CLAIM that there IS absolutely AND irrefutably NO 'objective purpose' AT ALL and FOREVER MORE." Rather, I say it is my opinion that there probably isn't.
It does NOT matter one iota what I say what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY. The POINT I am MAKING here is you CLAIM there is ABSOLUTELY NONE, SO how could 'you' AND 'I' EVER AGREE here?
If you say what the objective purpose is, and give your reasons for holding what you say to be true, I will either agree, disagree, or remain unconvinced.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:01 am
Age wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:59 am ABSOLUTELY NO one has EVER asked me to SAY what the 'objective purpose' IS.
Why do you need to be asked?
BECAUSE I am WAITING, patiently, for those who are Truly INTERESTED.
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:01 am People write about their ideas on this forum all the time without being asked. That is the "purpose" of the forum; it is a place that was designed for that purpose.
This forum could also be a place where 'philosophical discussions' take place, which the 'purpose of' is to just have Truly OPEN and Honest discussions where the goal is to FIND OUT and DISCOVER answers and/or 'new' things, and NOT to express one's OWN ideas AT ALL. Among other things.
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:01 am
you have ALREADY INFORMED us that there is NO 'objective purpose'. I was just POINTING OUT, by asking, HOW could 'you' and 'I' AGREE here when you STATE and CLAIM that there IS absolutely AND irrefutably NO 'objective purpose' AT ALL and FOREVER MORE, WHEN I am SAYING that I have ALREADY FOUND 'objective purpose'?
I am not aware of any objective purpose, and I am not aware of any reason to think we have an objective purpose, so I tend to think that we do not have an objective purpose.
Well this is VERY DIFFERENT to what you SAID and STATED previously.
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:01 am Regardless of what I might have previously said, or the words I might have used to say it, I do not "CLAIM that there IS absolutely AND irrefutably NO 'objective purpose' AT ALL and FOREVER MORE." Rather, I say it is my opinion that there probably isn't.
LOL CHANGING WORDS, now, is NOT being VERY OPEN, NOR Honest.

Either, there IS NO 'objective purpose', to you, OR, there COULD BE 'objective purpose', to you.

If you had previously STATED that you just THINK there is NO 'objective purpose', then this WOULD HAVE saved a LOT OF WORDS here.
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:01 am
It does NOT matter one iota what I say what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY. The POINT I am MAKING here is you CLAIM there is ABSOLUTELY NONE, SO how could 'you' AND 'I' EVER AGREE here?
If you say what the objective purpose is, and give your reasons for holding what you say to be true, I will either agree, disagree, or remain unconvinced.
COULD THERE BE 'objective purpose', to you?
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:30 am
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:49 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?
How can anyone agree or disagree with you when you won't say what the "objective purpose" is?
If you've expressed an opinion or belief, then you can never change your mind. It cannot possibly happen. (that's an axiom he's got).
LOL Here is ANOTHER one who ARRIVES AT CONCLUSIONS based on NOTHING but their OWN ASSUMPTIONS, which, OBVIOUSLY, are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY Wrong here, ONCE AGAIN.

What 'you' have ASSUMED and WRITTEN here is ABSOLUTELY False, Wrong, AND Incorrect, and could NOT be FURTHER from the ACTUAL Truth of 'things' here.
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:30 am He uses or used to use anyway 'believe' and 'belief' as terms having to do with only ideas one thinks are true that one cannot change ever and have been arrived at through irrational means.
SO, SO Wrong AND Incorrect, AGAIN.

LOL These people, back in the days when this was being, STILL could NOT COMPREHEND and UNDERSTAND that basing one's CLAIMS on ASSUMPTIONS ALONE, WITHOUT EVER GAINING and OBTAINING CLARIFICATION FIRST was LEADING 'them' so COMPLETELY and UTTERLY ASTRAY. Which EXPLAINS WHY they were SO LOST and CONFUSED here.
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:30 am He doesn't believe anything (with one exception, he said, long ago), in this schema.

So:
Person A: There is an X.
Person B: There is no X.

That's it. End of discussion. Go home. Never shall the twain meet.
Wrong AND Incorrect, ONCE MORE and ONCE AGAIN.
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:30 am It is simply not possible for any discussion, arguments, justifications, elicited or other experiences to change someone's mind. :cry:

Or I misunderstood his position, months ago. Or should I say, his belief?
'you' have OBVIOUSLY VERY MUCH MISUNDERSTOOD what I have WRITTEN and EXPRESSED. Which, by the way, can be CLEARLY SEEN here, in this forum, and FULLY UNDERSTOOD, if and WHEN CLARIFICATION is OBTAINED, FIRST.

By the way, your last sentence, with a question mark at the end, SHOWS and PROVES just how LITTLE you have COMPREHENDED and UNDERSTOOD.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:54 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:17 am Age wrote:

(Belinda had written: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am
There is no such thing as an objective purpose.)

Okay, if this is what you BELIEVE is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, then this is what is IRREFUTABLY TRUE to you, correct?
Nobody has ever seen , heard, touched, or smelled a purpose. People have observed what seem to be people and other animals looking as if they purposed to do what they are doing or are about to do. But nobody can ever detect this thing people call
a purpose
Have you EVER gone to the store to get some 'thing'?

If yes, then you did 'that' ON 'purpose'. That is; you PURPOSELY did some 'thing'. The 'purpose' of you going to the store was to GET some 'thing'.

Could there be an 'objective' 'purpose' for 'you', human beings, being here in 'Life', alive and living?

I SAY, 'Yes', but 'you' SAY, 'No', correct?

What you are proposing here is the SAME AS there proposing NO 'body' has EVER seen, heard, touched, no smelt hope, love, hate, wisdom, mind, anger, happiness, admiration, adoration, aesthetic appreciation, amusement, anger, anxiety, awe, awkwardness, boredom, calmness, confusion, craving, disgust, empathic pain, entrancement, excitement, fear, horror, interest, joy, nostalgia, relief, romance, sadness, satisfaction, sexual desire, nor surprise EITHER, therefore, to you, NO 'body' can detect these things people call 'all of the above'.
Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:17 am Similarly nobody has ever detected this thing people call a meaning. There is no such THING as a meaning. What there is is people meaning some idea such as meaning to go to bed soon, or meaning that roses are pretty, or meaning that they are in love etc etc.

So there is no such THING as meaning of life.
I think you have MISSED the POINT, COMPLETELY.

And, if you would like to CONTINUE on with this DISCUSSION, then GREAT. But, if you BELIEVE you have NOT MISSED ANY thing here and that there is NO such 'thing' as 'meaning' or 'purpose' in Life, and so there is NOTHING further to DISCUSS here, then that is PERFECTLY FINE with me, AS WELL.
I know and have used the phrase 'on purpose' in everyday conversations. I say "I came into the kitchen on purpose to do something and I forget what it was." When I am doing philosophy I have to be use more explicit language. If I had been a forgetful philosopher I'd have said " I came into the kitchen purposing to do something and I forget what it was." English is ambiguous and philosophers have to explain what they mean. No philosopher believes that purposes are real in the world things that hang about like invisible presences. So philosophers often prefer verbs to nouns.

People mean, people purpose. There is no a priori meaning or purpose to be found, apart from what people do.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:28 pm I am WAITING, patiently, for those who are Truly INTERESTED.
Okay, I'll ask: Will you explain what the objective purpose of human beings is?
COULD THERE BE 'objective purpose', to you?
I think it possible, but unlikely.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:46 pm
Age wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:28 pm I am WAITING, patiently, for those who are Truly INTERESTED.
Okay, I'll ask: Will you explain what the objective purpose of human beings is?
COULD THERE BE 'objective purpose', to you?
I think it possible, but unlikely.
It's unlikely that human beings as a species purpose anything in particular.
Individual human beings sometimes purpose alike at least for a limited duration. For instance fans of a specific football team all purpose to support their team, then when the game is over a fan purposes to buy a fish supper, while another fan purposes to book a foreign holiday, another fan means to go home and feed her hens.

Someone asked me "What is the objective purpose of your slow cooker?" I replied " I once meant to cook lentil stew in it, and now I mean to give it away."

If you want to know what God means humans to do you had better ask someone who knows God. There are a few of those who write here regularly.
There is no use asking Nature what she purposes for human beings as Nature does not purpose.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:35 am
BOTH 'matter' AND 'space' have ALWAYS co-existed together FOREVER, and this is because there can NOT be ANY OTHER way. 'They' HAVE TO ALWAYS BE inter-being.

This continually ALWAYS CHANGING in the HERE-NOW 'co-existence' is what IS causing and creating EVERY 'thing'. 'Matter' being able to move ABSOLUTELY FREELY ALLOWS itself to REACT WITH its self, which is what IS CREATING thee Self.
Ultimately we cannot even say that reality exists prior to and beyond the limits of the finite mind, because there is no discrete, independently existing finite mind for reality to be either dependent or independent of. There is just a single, infinite and indivisible whole, whose nature is undefined, because it cannot be described with reference to non-existent things.

But however we define it, it is a single, infinite and indivisible whole, which, interacting with itself in the form of the subject/object relationship, appears to itself as a universe. As such, the universe is eternal and changeless in nature but temporary and ever-changing in appearance.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:35 am
EXCEPT for the One and ONLY EXISTING Thing, known as, and called, 'The Universe'.

This One Thing is ALONE and SINGLE and thus is NOT dependent upon ANT thing else.
Every one individual 'thing' is alone 'all one' in it's own aloneness we call the universe. Every 'ONE' is alone.

“It is only when we have renounced our preoccupation with "I," "me," "mine," that we can truly possess the world in which we live. Everything, provided that we regard nothing as property. And not only is everything ours; it is also everybody else's.”


"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone"
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Harbal »

Belinda wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am There is no such THING as a purpose. To purpose is a verb. Purposing is something only people and other animals that have central nervous systems do, if they do it at all. Many people and other animals don't purpose they simply react.
But "purpose" is also a noun, isn't it? This is what I understand the word to mean: "The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists."

A saw is designed and made with conscious intention as a tool for cutting through wood. Therefore, the purpose of a saw is to cut through wood. A saw has that purpose by virtue of being given it by its creator. A heart could be said to have the purpose of pumping blood, but hearts are not the product of conscious intention; they came about by a different process altogether. So, although -it seems to me- saws and hearts both have a purpose, there is a distinction of some sort to be made between "purpose" as applied to one, and "purpose" as applied to the other. Or maybe that distinction isn't relevant in the case of what is being discussed here. I don't know. :?

Of course, the aforementioned distinction would disappear if someone were to bring God, or some other intelligent designer of human beings into the matter, but then theists and none theists would have to go their seperate ways at that point.
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