Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

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Belinda
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Belinda »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:38 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:53 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:55 pm
If you say so. Something is certainly tangled.
Flippant reply does not advance your argument.
I don't argue with nonsense.
Neither does flippancy help the cause of truth, unless it is really laugh out loud funny.
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Sculptor
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

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RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:13 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:49 pm You will find never find objective certainty outside of classical logic or mathematics.
And you are certain of that? But you are not certain you are alive, that you feel or want anything, or that you were here yesterday, since none of those can be derived by logic or mathematics alone. How odd.
You can always try to present such a thing, and we can take a look. But Belinda is correct on this point.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:41 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:38 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:53 pm

Flippant reply does not advance your argument.
I don't argue with nonsense.
Neither does flippancy help the cause of truth, unless it is really laugh out loud funny.
The, "cause of truth?" Really. That, in itself, is laugh-out-loud funny. Since when was there some ideological, "cause," called, "the truth." Is that what you think the truth is--some kind of program or movement to promote?

Thanks for the laughs, anyway.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

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Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:44 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:13 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:49 pm You will find never find objective certainty outside of classical logic or mathematics.
And you are certain of that? But you are not certain you are alive, that you feel or want anything, or that you were here yesterday, since none of those can be derived by logic or mathematics alone. How odd.
You can always try to present such a thing, and we can take a look. But Belinda is correct on this point.
Not for you, but for anyone who might be taken in by that nonsense--from: Certain Knowledge
Things you know for certain:

What you are currently experiencing.
What you are currently doing.
Where you currently are.
What you are seeing.
What you are hearing.
What you are feeling.
What you are tasting.
What you are smelling.
That you are reading.
That you are thinking.
That you are awake.
That you exist.
That you are conscious.
That you are conscious of something.
That it is day (or night).
That is is raining (or it isn't).
That it is warm (or cold).
What your nose, ears, eyes, mouth, arms, hands, legs, feet and chest are.
What and where the bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, doors, and windows are.
What clothes are.
What pants, shirts, socks, and underwear are.
What a dress, slacks, blouse, sweater, panties, and bra are.
What water is.
What food is.
What bacon, eggs, tomatoes, potatoes, onions, grapes, and apples are.
What meat, flour, cake, cookies, crackers, and snacks are.
What hamburgers, hot dogs, tacos, french fries, and ice cream are.
What a knife, fork, spoon, plate, bowl, glass, cup, and saucer are.
What a refrigerator, stove, dishwasher, washing machine, and clothes dryer are.
What a sink, bathtub, toilet, and shower are.
What cars, trucks, boats, planes, trains, and motorcycles are.
What a book, a TV, a table, a chair, a desk, a lamp, and a computer are.
What a cat, dog, cow, chicken, pigeon, goat, sheep, pig, and horse are.
What clocks and calendars are.
What time, day, month, and year it is.
What a building, home, store, restaurant, factory, and police station are.
What a pond, lake, brook, river, hill, mountain, valley, and cliff are.
What trees, bushes, weeds, flowers, grasses, and funguses are.
What stars, the moon, and the sun are.
What counting, addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are.
What a party, a team, a show, a circus, a ceremony, and a speech are.
When something is alive.
When something is dead.
When the lights, TV, water, gas, or radio are on or off.
That electric lighting is possible.
That heavier than air flight is possible.
That refrigeration is possible.
That sound and pictures can be transmitted electronically anywhere in the world.
That getting to the moon is possible.
That X-rays are possible.
That anaesthesia (painless surgery) is possible.
That bacteria cause disease.
That vaccination is possible.
That lasers are possible.
[The last ten things were all unknown or declared impossible by philosophers and academics until 300 years ago. Now they are all certain.]

You know a language and how to read, understand, and write it. (Else you would not be reading and responding to these things.)
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Sculptor
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:44 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:13 am
And you are certain of that? But you are not certain you are alive, that you feel or want anything, or that you were here yesterday, since none of those can be derived by logic or mathematics alone. How odd.
You can always try to present such a thing, and we can take a look. But Belinda is correct on this point.
Not for you, but for anyone who might be taken in by that nonsense--from: Certain Knowledge
I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:44 pm

You can always try to present such a thing, and we can take a look. But Belinda is correct on this point.
Not for you, but for anyone who might be taken in by that nonsense--from: Certain Knowledge
I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
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Sculptor
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Not for you, but for anyone who might be taken in by that nonsense--from: Certain Knowledge
I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
Why do you think that?
Belinda
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Belinda »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Not for you, but for anyone who might be taken in by that nonsense--from: Certain Knowledge
I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
a question Socrates (according to Xenophon) or Chaerephon (according to Plato) is said to have posed to the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, in which the oracle stated something to the effect of "Socrates is the wisest person in Athens."[2] Socrates, believing the oracle but also completely convinced that he knew nothing, was said to have concluded that nobody knew anything, and that he was only wiser than others because he was the only person who recognized his own ignorance.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:01 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm

I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
Why do you think that?
I could be mistaken. I took your comments on certainty to imply that you did not believe any knowledge was certain. Please disabuse me of that mistake if I'm wrong. If nothing were certain, all supposed knowledge would have some level of doubt, wouldn't it?
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Belinda wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:03 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm

I think you need to address your basic comprehension.
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
a question Socrates (according to Xenophon) or Chaerephon (according to Plato) is said to have posed to the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, in which the oracle stated something to the effect of "Socrates is the wisest person in Athens."[2] Socrates, believing the oracle but also completely convinced that he knew nothing, was said to have concluded that nobody knew anything, and that he was only wiser than others because he was the only person who recognized his own ignorance.
But of course, in our ignorance, it is no possible to know for certain that any of that is true. What's the point of quoting what is probably just made up?
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Sculptor
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:40 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:03 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:35 pm
That's odd coming from someone who asserts all comprehension is in doubt.
a question Socrates (according to Xenophon) or Chaerephon (according to Plato) is said to have posed to the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, in which the oracle stated something to the effect of "Socrates is the wisest person in Athens."[2] Socrates, believing the oracle but also completely convinced that he knew nothing, was said to have concluded that nobody knew anything, and that he was only wiser than others because he was the only person who recognized his own ignorance.
But of course, in our ignorance, it is no possible to know for certain that any of that is true. What's the point of quoting what is probably just made up?
This stuff is well attested.
Not only do we have two primary sources, but there are also several contemporary sources that confirm this story, demonstrating the story was well known 2300 years ago.
But whether or not it is just a story ,the truth of the matter is sound, since it refects upon a deep truth about the nature of knowledge itself.
Here's where your complete lack of education and your conrtempt for those that have taken the trouble to learn something in their live shows you for what you are.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:48 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:40 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:03 am a question Socrates (according to Xenophon) or Chaerephon (according to Plato) is said to have posed to the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, in which the oracle stated something to the effect of "Socrates is the wisest person in Athens."[2] Socrates, believing the oracle but also completely convinced that he knew nothing, was said to have concluded that nobody knew anything, and that he was only wiser than others because he was the only person who recognized his own ignorance.
But of course, in our ignorance, it is no possible to know for certain that any of that is true. What's the point of quoting what is probably just made up?
This stuff is well attested.
Not only do we have two primary sources, but there are also several contemporary sources that confirm this story, demonstrating the story was well known 2300 years ago.
But whether or not it is just a story ,the truth of the matter is sound, since it refects upon a deep truth about the nature of knowledge itself.
Here's where your complete lack of education and your conrtempt for those that have taken the trouble to learn something in their live shows you for what you are.
Look, you people have to make up your minds. First you provide quotes insisting that we are mostly ignorant, and as soon as someone agrees with that, you turn around and insist you are not ignorant at all and are certain of what you quoted.

I just don't understand how one can be certain of something when that something is that they or ignorant. If that's a limitation on my part, I'm glad of it.
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Sculptor
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:48 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:40 pm
But of course, in our ignorance, it is no possible to know for certain that any of that is true. What's the point of quoting what is probably just made up?
This stuff is well attested.
Not only do we have two primary sources, but there are also several contemporary sources that confirm this story, demonstrating the story was well known 2300 years ago.
But whether or not it is just a story ,the truth of the matter is sound, since it refects upon a deep truth about the nature of knowledge itself.
Here's where your complete lack of education and your conrtempt for those that have taken the trouble to learn something in their live shows you for what you are.
Look, you people have to make up your minds. First you provide quotes insisting that we are mostly ignorant, and as soon as someone agrees with that, you turn around and insist you are not ignorant at all and are certain of what you quoted.

I just don't understand
how one can be certain of something when that something is that they or ignorant. If that's a limitation on my part, I'm glad of it.
The accurate part of your text is highlighten in blue
Belinda
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by Belinda »

RCSaunders wrote:
I just don't understand how one can be certain of something when that something is that they or ignorant. If that's a limitation on my part, I'm glad of it.
Knowing that you don't know will save your life sometime. You will send for a qualified electrician or learn to increase your own deficient knowledge.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Has Science Killed Philosophy? Debate

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:01 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:48 pm

This stuff is well attested.
Not only do we have two primary sources, but there are also several contemporary sources that confirm this story, demonstrating the story was well known 2300 years ago.
But whether or not it is just a story ,the truth of the matter is sound, since it refects upon a deep truth about the nature of knowledge itself.
Here's where your complete lack of education and your conrtempt for those that have taken the trouble to learn something in their live shows you for what you are.
Look, you people have to make up your minds. First you provide quotes insisting that we are mostly ignorant, and as soon as someone agrees with that, you turn around and insist you are not ignorant at all and are certain of what you quoted.

I just don't understand
how one can be certain of something when that something is that they or ignorant. If that's a limitation on my part, I'm glad of it.
The accurate part of your text is highlighten in blue
That's right. It is not possible to, "understand," nonsense.
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