What is philosophy?

For all things philosophical.

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Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:41 pmSo, 100 galaxies are blue shifted, from just ONE position in the Universe, which could infer and be transferred to EVERY position in the Universe.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:08 amWell, we can certainly infer that astronomers in any of the galaxies we see as blue shifted will see at least the Milky Way blue shifted; but as you say, it is highly likely that our experience is the norm, rather than the exception.
Except that I NEVER ACTUALLY said this.
That is true Age, but most people who are not cerebrally challenged would accept that inferring that our position in the universe could be transferred to every position in the universe implies that our actual position is not exceptional.
Therefore, those who are NOT BELIEVERS that the Universe IS EXPANDING KNOW that transferring the position of earth and human beings to EVERY or ANY other position of the Universe implies that their position is NOT exceptional, which therefore MEANS that what is happening and occurring around the position of earth and human beings is the EXACT SAME throughout the Universe. Which is 'blue shift' EXISTS, with 'red shift' ALSO EXISTING.

See, those who do NOT ALREADY HAVE A BELIEF here LOOK AT the WHOLE PICTURE and NOT just some of IT, like you do.

See, 'we' LOOK AT and DISCUSS BOTH blue and red shift, whereas 'you' and the other BELIEVERS will only LOOK AT and DISCUSS red shift, and then CLAIM that is ALL the, so called, "evidence" we NEED for the BELIEF that the Universe IS EXPANDING. Which is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of CONFIRMATION BIASES, at its BEST.

The BELIEVERS of an EXPANDING Universe are behaving EXACTLY like the BELIEVERS of a GEOCENTRIC Universe did. That is; ONLY LOOK AT a SMALL PART and PICTURE of the Universe, instead of the WHOLE and BIG PICTURE.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 am
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:08 amAs it happens, galaxies colliding and merging is common.
Which seems to be a VERY CONTRADICTORY occurrence in and if the WHOLE Universe is, meant to be, EXPANDING. Or, do you SEE and FIND this as 'normal' behavior in an EXPANDING Universe?
That's because you didn't understand the bubble analogy, but it is what the evidence suggests is occurring.
You make me laugh "uwot" EVERY time you use the word 'evidence' here. You say it as though it is ACTUAL 'evidence' for an expanding Universe, as thought the Universe IS ACTUALLY EXPANDING.

You STILL can NOT YET SEE that you have GAINED the BELIEF that the Universe IS EXPANDING, like ALL of those "others" have, and then CLAIM that there is ACTUAL 'evidence' for AN EXPANDING Universe.

If you STILL can NOT YET SEE and UNDERSTAND that OBSERVING lines shift to red on photographic material is "evidence" for an EXPANDING Universe HYPOTHESIS ONLY, then you would STILL NOT YET have RECOGNIZED that this IS the EXACT SAME phenomena occurring as OBSERVING the sun revolved around the earth was the "evidence" for a GEOCENTRIC Universe ASSUMPTION (hypothesis) ONLY.

However, BOTH of those OBSERVATIONS were NOT ACTUAL 'evidence' for what was BEING CLAIMED. They were BOTH just ACTUAL 'evidence' for the HYPOTHESIS or ASSUMPTIONS.

The can be a HUGE DIFFERENCE between hypothesis/assumption and thee ACTUAL Truth of things. As has ALREADY been PROVED absolutely True countless times ALREADY.

Also, the FACT that 'evidence' is NOT ACTUAL 'proof' is ANOTHER BIG thing, which NEEDS to be LOOK AT and REMEMBERED here in regards to what is being DISCUSSED here.

As I have ALREADY OUTLINED, EVERY thing being discussed here is ALL depended upon how EACH one of 'us' is defining the word 'Universe', and UNTIL that is brought to light, absolutely EVERY thing that has been said here could just be plain old MOOT, anyway.

I do NOT DISAGREE that some of 'you', human beings, MAKE UP ASSUMPTIONS and HYPOTHESIS'S, based on SOME ACTUAL OBSERVATION, so having ACTUAL 'evidence' for some ASSUMPTION/HYPOTHESIS is 'normal'. But what is also normal is the FACT that a hypothesis/assumption is NOT necessarily even close to thee ACTUAL Truth of things. And, as I have ALREADY INFORMED you, I ONLY LOOK AT and DISCUSS 'that' what is ACTUALLY True and REAL.

I do NOT do BELIEFS (other than of thy Self and Its abilities). I do NOT want to do ASSUMPTIONS/GUESSES/THEORIES/HYPOTHESIS or ANY OTHER PRESUMPTION, and I do NOT do DEBATES.

I MUCH PREFER to just LOOK AT and DISCUSS what is ACTUALLY True and REAL ONLY.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amAnd, if we EVER get past peoples BELIEFS here, then we can FINALLY move on to LOOK AT the MANY PROOFS, which ACTUALLY DO EXIST, about what the Universe is ACTUALLY DOING.
If your many proofs cannot change anyone's beliefs, they are not proofs.
LOL

If ONLY you KNEW just how hilarious this comment ACTUALLY IS.

As HAS ALREADY been PROVED True I do NOT SHARE 'proofs' with those who BELIEVE otherwise.

I have ALREADY INFORMED that 'proofs' can NOT change BELIEFS, WHILE the BELIEF IS EXISTING.

And, just like the sun revolved around the earth BELIEF was CHANGED with 'proofs' the ACTUAL amount of time that takes is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT for EVERY one. The less strongly some thing is be BELIEVED and the less a BELIEF is being held onto, then the QUICKER that BELIEF is CHANGED, and conversely the stronger a BELIEF IS and the stronger that BELIEF is being held onto, the harder and longer it is to CHANGE, not matter how much ACTUAL 'proof' EXISTS and IS PRESENTED.

For ACTUAL PROOF that even ACTUAL 'proof' itself can NOT CHANGE a BELIEF, whilst the BELIEF is being MAINTAINED, then just LOOK AT the flat earth BELIEF.

So, YOUR CLAIM that if one's many proofs cannot change ANY one's beliefs, then they are NOT proofs, is EXTREMELY HILARIOUS, well to me anyway.

However, I TOTALLY AGREE with you that that ACTUAL 'proofs', which OBVIOUSLY can NOT be REFUTED, by ANY one, can be DISPUTED, by EVERY one, and as such and so are NOT, so called, "proofs" to those people IN DISPUTE. But, OF COURSE, 'proofs' exist on their OWN as IRREFUTABLY True.

Also, let us NOT FORGET that I have been asking for just 'evidence' that the Universe IS EXPANDING, by those who BELIEVE that the Universe IS EXPANDING, which OBVIOUSLY has NOT YET BEEN PROVIDED, let alone that when and IF that EVER comes to light, then I will be requesting ACTUAL PROOF, Itself.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amUnderstanding FULLY what the Universe ACTUALLY is and how the Universe ACTUALLY behaves, will settle ALL of this.
The way to find out how the universe actually behaves is to watch it. Any hypothesis about what the universe actually is really needs to be consistent with the observations. It was consistent with the observations that the earth was at the centre of the universe until the invention of the telescope gave us a set of new observations which meant we had to change our ideas.
A GREAT EXAMPLE you have PROVIDED and USED here, and one that I would have ALSO.

So, this brings us back to EXACTLY WHY I continually ask the question, WHY even ASSUME and/or BELIEVE some thing is true BEFORE CLARIFICATION is even GAINED?

Or, WHY just MAKE UP ANY hypothesis, theory, guess, or assumption about what the Universe ACTUALLY is?

Especially when one can just LOOK AT 'It' (OBSERVE 'It') and SEE and KNOW what It ACTUALLY IS almost instantly, AND always?

Also, do NOT FORGET that ANY hypothesis about what the Universe actually is, which you claim "really needs to be consistent with the observations", does in NO WAY necessarily confer with what thee Universe REALLY and Truly ACTUALLY IS.

See, what the Universe ACTUALLY IS is NOT earth centered, NOT expanding, and NOT beginning. As can be CLEARLY OBSERVED and WITNESSED.

One just has to LOOK through and from thee (Truly OPEN) Mind, and NOT through and from the (Truly LIMITED) human brain, to OBSERVE and SEE this FACT.

Also, the reasons WHY the Universe ONLY APPEARS to be earth centered, expanding, and beginning becomes also instantly SEEN, KNOWN, and WELL or FULLY UNDERSTOOD when LOOKING AT or OBSERVING this through and from Thee Mind.

Once again, I will suggest LOOKING AT 'things' through and from the (Truly ALWAYS OPEN) Mind FIRST, and only then LOOKING from and through the already gained thoughts, which were obtained from that one single bodies experiences. Instead of the OTHER WAY AROUND when 'things' are mostly LOOKED AT through and from the brain, and thinking, FIRST, and usually ALWAYS and ONLY in the adult population of human beings.

As can be CLEARLY evidenced and PROVEN in the above, or the preexisting, writings, throughout human history.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amAlso, do NOT forget that what, so called, "astronomers", who are ACTUALLY just another one of 'you', human beings, OBSERVES, does NOT make what they OBSERVE true, right, NOR even correct.
What astronomers observe is just what they observe.
But, OBVIOUSLY, is that what is SEEN, or observed, by the physical eyes of a human body, does NOT have to necessarily relate at all to what is SEEN, understood or known, observed, by the human brain, and which exists as 'thinking' within the human body, and which is expressed and shared as 'thought', itself.

If there was NO difference, then there would be NO DISAGREEMENT among 'you', human beings. That is, if what ANY one observe is just what they observe, was ACTUALLY what there ONLY IS, then EVERY one would be IN AGREEMENT. And OBVIOUSLY there is, NOT YET, AGREEMENT.

So, OBVIOUSLY, what 'you' and "others" are 'observing' is either DIFFERENT or the EXACT SAME.

And REMEMBER it is 'I' who has been CLEARLY STATING that there is ONLY One ACTUAL Truth of things, which can be CLEARLY SEEN and FULLY UNDERSTOOD, and VERY QUICKLY, VERY SIMPLY, and VERY EASILY, by the way, by EACH and EVERY one, and which ALL new borns are ACTUALLY OBSERVING and SEEING. But, which 'you', adult human beings, twist and distort with and because of your ALREADY GAINED preexisting learning, which 'you' then individually turn into ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS about what is true and right in the 'world', of which then TWISTS and DISTORTS 'you' from being able to CLEARLY SEE and RECOGNIZE what thee ACTUAL Truth of things REALLY IS.

When 'you', adult human beings, are Truly OPEN and Honest about the WRONG that 'you' ALL DO, and Truly WANT to CHANGE for the better, then 'you' WILL learn WHY 'you' are the way you ARE, and then you will START discovering and/or learning HOW to start SEEING/OBSERVING and RECOGNIZING things for what they Truly ARE.

Until then 'you' will carry on ASSUMING and BELIEVING what you do, while I await patiently for those who are Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS to learning MORE and ANEW.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amRemember that it was 'you', human beings, with MANY different names and labels, who OBSERVED the sun revolving around the earth, and we all KNOW how that OBSERVATION to out, in relation to thee ACTUAL Truth of things, correct?
No Age. What people observed was the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. It looks like the sun is moving, and because we don't feel any of our motion through space, most people believed that the earth is stationary.
So, HOW EXACTLY is that ANY DIFFERENT from what I was ACTUALLY SAYING and MEANING? What were you PRESUMING I was SAYING AND MEANING?

The point was 'we' all KNOW how that OBSERVATION went. It was the EXACT OPPOSITE of what is ACTUALLY True, Right, REAL, Accurate, AND Correct.

Just like the OBSERVATION of an "expanding and beginning" Universe is NOT True, NOT Right, NOT REAL, NOT Accurate, NOR Correct.

People in 'your' days observe some colored lines on photographic material, which the BEST EXPLANATION that they can come up with is, the WHOLE of the Universe IS EXPANDING, which also, and "coincidentally", just happens to help explain the EXTREMELY OLD IDEA, which has been present within the human psyche for millennia, the the Universe ACTUALLY BEGAN.

I will AGAIN suggest, just rid yourselves of ABSOLUTELY ANY preconceived ideas, and then just LOOK AT what IS from thee Truly OPEN perspective, then what is OBSERVED ONLY is thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

See, 'you', human beings, in the days of when this is being written, have the COMPLETE and UTTER ADVANTAGE over ALL other previous human beings that language and words have evolved as far as they have to be able to order words in such a way that ALL-OF-THIS can be ordered in such a way that EVERY thing can be EXPLAINED in VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY terms, so that the Universe, Itself, and EVERY thing within IT can be FULLY UNDERSTOOD, relative to what was previously understood, and relative to helping ABSOLUTELY in the IMPROVING and SPEEDING UP EXPONENTIALLY of being ABLE TO discover, learn, and understand NEW and MORE things.

KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING the answers to ALL of the MEANINGFUL or PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTIONS as well as WHAT and HOW thee Universe, Itself IS and WORKS, leads to an absolutely phenomenal improved rate and increase in DISCOVERING and LEARNING ALL the other things to be able to order and create the way of life, which 'we' ALL Truly WANT to live in and DESIRE.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amExcept that 'you' do NOT have a "mind".
It really depends on what you mean by mind. There is a sensation of autonomous decision making that calls itself me, and which is content to consider itself a mind.
AND, just like ABSOLUTELY EVERY THING ELSE within the Universe, Itself, and thee ACTUAL Universe, Itself 'it really, and literally, ALL depends on what 'you' MEAN by the words 'you' USE, including the word 'you'.

Absolutely EVERY thing is DEPENDED UPON on 'you' and the way 'you' DEFINE 'things', or, in other words, it ALL depends on the way 'you' LOOK AT and SEE 'things'.

In saying this, however, OF COURSE, there is One True Thing/REALITY, which EXISTS EXACTLY how It DOES and IS. But, EVERY 'thing' else is ALL depended upon 'you' and the way 'you' LOOK AT and SEE 'things'.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amBUT, as has OBVIOUSLY ALREADY BEEN PROVED ABSOLUTELY TRUE, so called, "peer reviewed" views, or ASSUMPTIONS, which are said to be based on ACTUAL 'evidence', from observations, can end up just being absolutely False, Wrong, and Incorrect, IN THE END.
That is true.
GREAT, we ARE IN AGREEMENT, AGAIN.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm And what shows them to be absolutely false, wrong and incorrect is evidence.
BUT, they would NOT have been Wrong, in the beginning, IF they did NOT make up ASSUMPTIONS, to start with.

AGAIN, WHY do 'you', adult human beings, FEEL the NEED to MAKE UP ASSUMPTIONS?

When OBVIOUSLY there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO, and ESPECIALLY when they could just be False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, to begin with?
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm For that reason many scientists refuse to commit to any interpretation; they will simply use the formula that produces the results they want and ignore any philosophical questions about what is behind it all, or what it 'means'.
Well, by DEFINITION, WHILE ANY human being is playing the "scientist" role, which EVERY human being plays or does at times, then they would, for those given moments, NOT be asking the "philosophical" questions. This was just a given anyway, CORRECT?

By the way, the "philosopher" role is ALWAYS BEING PLAYED, this role, however, is just far more to the forefront in some than in "others". And, in some adult human beings this "role" is lying "dormant" so far in the background that it NEVER comes to the forefront.

And LOL you are SO TRUE in that some and even "many scientists" WILL simply use a a formula that produces EXACTLY the results , which they WANTED, in the beginning. Which is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of CONFIRMATION BIASES, that you have just PROVIDED.

Also, YOUR CLAIM that "many scientists refuse to commit to ANY interpretation" completely MISSES THE MARK in relation to the FACT that the CLAIM that "red shift is 'evidence' for an expanding Universe' is, in itself, JUST AN INTERPRETATION, ONLY.

Red shift is just the name given to lines when they appear MORE red. Now, what these red lines are ACTUALLY 'evidence' FOR EXACTLY is ALWAYS 'JUST and INTERPRETATION', Itself.

There could well be OTHER REASONS WHY there is red shift in those lines on photographic material, which 'you', human beings, have NOT YET EVEN CONSIDERED, and this could FACT could last for hundreds, thousands, or even millions of more years, in not forever more.

Now, most of 'us' are IN AGREEMENT that 'red shift' COULD mean that SOME galaxies are receding away from the human being observer/s, on earth. While SOME people BELIEVE that that these galaxies are moving away from earth is EXACTLY what is happening. Either way EVERY one, if Truly OPEN would ADMIT that that 'thought/view' that THOSE galaxies are moving away from earth is JUST AN INTERPRETATION, and, NOT YET ANYWAY, a proven irrefutable FACT.

And, while 'I' am one of those who AGREE that 'red shift' is 'evidence' for the 'idea' that SOME galaxies are moving or receding away from earth, 'I' also have NOT YET OBSERVED how this is 'evidence' for the 'idea' that the Universe, Itself, is expanding.

And UNTIL ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' for this 'idea' is PROVIDED, what 'I' ACTUALLY OBSERVE seems to be far MORE LIKELY to be ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amAll I have ESSENTIALLY said here is: The Universe did NOT begin NOR is It expanding, while asking for those who say and BELIEVE that the Universe is expanding to back up and support this with some ACTUAL 'evidence' for THEIR CLAIM.

NONE of these BELIEVERS have OBVIOUSLY provided ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' AT ALL.
Red shift. What is your evidence that the universe did not have a beginning and that it is not expanding?
But 'red shift' is NOT ACTUAL EVIDENCE that the Universe, Itself IS EXPANDING. The 'IDEA' that the Universe IS EXPANDING is SOLELY based on the BELIEF that 'red shift' (red lines on photographic material) is ACTUAL EVIDENCE, for that IDEA/HYPOTHESIS.

This is just CIRCULAR REASONING.

Also, I have asked you that IF 'red shift' is MEANT TO BE ACTUAL EVIDENCE for an expanding Universe, which you CLAIM it is, THEN what is 'blue shift' MEANT TO BE ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR, EXACTLY?

You have FAILED COMPLETELY to PROVIDE what 'blue shift' is meant to be ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR, because of the OBVIOUS following consequences, to you.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 am In fact, I have ALREADY made it CLEAR that I am using the people in this forum as test subjects, so as to obtain and gather the ACTUAL PROOF I NEED in order to back up and support what I will write and CLAIM, somewhere else.

Getting 'you', unsuspecting human beings, to CLEARLY SHOW WHAT and HOW 'you' VIEW and BELIEVE things, from your OWN FREE perceptions and doing, is helping me TREMENDOUSLY in regards to just EXACTLY HOW the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK.
Those are the words of a terrible egomaniac.
If this is what you BELIEVE and SAY, then this is EXACTLY what THIS IS, to and for 'you'. And, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that what you said and stated here could NOT be absolutely ANY thing else, correct?
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm If you weren't also totally shit they would indicate a supervillain.
So, according to this, because I AM "TOTALLY SHIT", then my words indicate a super good, a super angel, a super saint, and/or a super hero, correct?
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pm As it is, you just a harmless attention seeking braggart.
Okay, AGAIN, if you SAY and BELIEVE so, then this MUST BE SO, correct?

And here, by the way, is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just how, human beings, in those days, would NOT ask ANY CLARIFYING QUESTIONS AT ALL in regards to "others" writings, and instead would just BELIEVE that they ALREADY KNOW, 100%, WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY ANY DOUBT AT ALL, what the "other" is SAYING, and MEANING.

Which if one was Truly Honest is a SURE SIGN of and a PERFECT description of a True 'egomaniac'.

So, ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU.

I will AGAIN suggest; CLARIFYING, BEFORE ASSUMING and BELIEVING.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:16 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 amPRIME EXAMPLE
Point of information Age: if every example you give is a prime example, they're just examples.
But if those given PRIME EXAMPLES are DIFFERENT EXAMPLES for DIFFERENT THINGS, then they NOT just EXAMPLES.

But thanks for the FOREWARNING. This will REMIND me to take MORE NOTICE from now one, which will be tremendous help to me in improving my communication with 'you', human beings.

'We' ALL, after all, do NEED some help in improving our writings and ways of communicating own OWN specific thoughts views, fore, and in, sights with each "other", so that they/we are much BETTER and EASIER understood.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:40 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:23 am So, even if I was released from this mental ward here, and went to india, then are you now saying that I would still just be put back into another mental ward there?
Are you in a mental ward?
It could be said, yes, and, at times, it certainly feels this way.

But, if you are asking this from, the straight to the point perspective of, a building with locks on it to keep those inside, in there, at that very given moment when you asked that clarifying question, then the answer is no.

So, what did you mean exactly?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:37 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 am In fact, I have ALREADY made it CLEAR that I am using the people in this forum as test subjects, so as to obtain and gather the ACTUAL PROOF I NEED in order to back up and support what I will write and CLAIM, somewhere else.

Getting 'you', unsuspecting human beings, to CLEARLY SHOW WHAT and HOW 'you' VIEW and BELIEVE things, from your OWN FREE perceptions and doing, is helping me TREMENDOUSLY in regards to just EXACTLY HOW the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK.
Those are the words of a terrible egomaniac.
If you weren't also totally shit they would indicate a supervillain.
As it is, you just a harmless attention seeking braggart.
Each time I read Age's posts I think of a small boy, red in the face, stamping his feet.
In this case he is also wearing an alien mask.
THANK YOU.

The VIEWS, SEEN, and then PROVIDE, by 'you', human beings, just by THE WORDS before 'you', ILLUSTRATES my points EXACTLY.

Now, NOT EVERY one does NOR will SEE the EXACT SAME thing that this one does, ALTHOUGH the EXACT SAME WORDS are being CLEARLY DISPLAYED, to each and EVERY one of 'you' here.

And, this is A 'PRIME' EXAMPLE of EXACTLY HOW EACH of 'you' SEES things DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH there is ONLY One absolute and irrefutable Truth, which is CLEARLY IN FRONT OF ALL of 'you', human beings.

So, in the EXAMPLE, which you have PROVIDED here for 'us' "sculptor", NO one can REFUTE the ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE THEM, they are CLEARLY WRITTEN and for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE, just like thee Universe is CLEARLY HERE for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE. But EACH one of 'you' has their OWN perception AND view of 'things'.

Now, the reason WHY 'you' ALL have DIFFERENT perceptions AND views of the One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth of things, is SOLELY because of the DIFFERENT experiences that that individual body, which 'you' are in, has had.

So, NOW 'you' KNOW HOW and WHY 'you' ALL OBSERVE and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH ALL of 'you' are LOOKING AT and SEEING the EXACT SAME ACTUAL THINGS.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:21 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:23 am
Atla wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:22 am
Still no proof, this time we really took the time to look at what you were claiming, asked the right clarifying questions, and established that your treatment as just another generic nutjob is fully justified.
LOL

So, WHERE is this LOOKED AT what I was CLAIMING, CLAIM of yours?

WHAT were the "right" clarifying questions asked?

And, HOW EXACTLY did you establish that treating "others" as 'generic nut jobs' [whatever a 'nut job' is EXACTLY] is FULLY JUSTIFIED?

But, OBVIOUSLY, you WILL NOT provide ANY thing here, and this is BECAUSE you CAN NOT.
Atla wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:22 am The evidence that you're a generic nutjob is here for all to see.
And, just like the BELIEVERS of an 'expanding Universe' will NOT provide ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' for their BELIEF here, because they CAN NOT, 'you', "atla" will also NOT provide ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' for your CLAIM here, because 'you' CAN NOT.

As you WILL PROVE me CORRECT, ONCE AGAIN.
Atla wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:22 am Seems like a pretty standard schizophrenic God-channeling-complex, even in India where people believe in the Brahman, they would put you into a mental ward.
So, even if I was released from this mental ward here, and went to india, then are you now saying that I would still just be put back into another mental ward there?
Atla wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:22 am Unfortunately in the days when this is being written, a high percentage of humans are still preoccupied with chasing their self-serving delusions and hallucinations, and also try to force their nonsense on others.
Do you think or BELIEVE that I am FORCING NONSENSE on "others"?

If yes, then 'what' NONSENSE is that, EXACTLY?

And, HOW, EXACTLY, am I SUPPOSEDLY FORCING ANY thing on ANY one?

Also, DO NOT FORGET that it is 'you', "atla", and "others" here who BELIEVE their OWN self-serving delusions and hallucinations about;
'How 'I' am ALWAYS WRONG', and that it is 'you' and "others" who are 'trying to' FORCE this BELIEF onto "others", in the hope of gaining support for your OWN delusions and hallucinations.

Just like the BELIEVERS that the sun revolved around the earth 'tried to' gain support by FORCING "others" to SEE and BELIEVE that the one EXPRESSING the "opposite" was "delusional", "hallucinating", a "generic nut job", a "schizophrenic", and/or ALWAYS WRONG, as well,

The more they could humiliate and ridicule IN PUBLIC the more they were HOPING and TRYING TO gain support for their CURRENTLY HELD BELIEFS, which OBVIOUSLY ultimately turned out to be absolutely False, Wrong, AND Incorrect ANYWAY. So, it ALSO turned out that it was these BELIEVERS who were ACTUALLY chasing THEIR self-serving delusions AND hallucinations.

So, we will just to WAIT and SEE what ACTUALLY happens here, correct?
whatever you say nutcase
What does this mean?

WHATEVER 'I' say is; True, Right, AND Correct, or is; Untrue, NOT Right, AND Incorrect, a combination of BOTH, or something else?

And, what is a 'nutcase', EXACTLY to 'you'?

Some people REALLY do appear to FORGET that 'we' are in a 'philosophy forum', where 'views' are MEANT TO BE LOOKED AT and DISCUSSED, and where 'things/answers/solutions' are MEANT TO BE 'logically reasoned' out.

AND NOT like in other forums, which appear to be constructed to just attempt to RIDICULE and HUMILIATE "each other", going by the words within them and the way "people" speak to "each other", in those forums.

But some people REALLY do seem to think that ridicule and humiliating of "others" is a part of philosophy and philosophical discussions, as can be CLEARLY SEEN, EVIDENCED, and PROVED above.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:14 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:40 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:23 am So, even if I was released from this mental ward here, and went to india, then are you now saying that I would still just be put back into another mental ward there?
Are you in a mental ward?
It could be said, yes, and, at times, it certainly feels this way.

But, if you are asking this from, the straight to the point perspective of, a building with locks on it to keep those inside, in there, at that very given moment when you asked that clarifying question, then the answer is no.

So, what did you mean exactly?
What kind of mental ward are you talking about?
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amRemember that it was 'you', human beings, with MANY different names and labels, who OBSERVED the sun revolving around the earth, and we all KNOW how that OBSERVATION to out, in relation to thee ACTUAL Truth of things, correct?
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pmNo Age. What people observed was the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. It looks like the sun is moving, and because we don't feel any of our motion through space, most people believed that the earth is stationary.
So, HOW EXACTLY is that ANY DIFFERENT from what I was ACTUALLY SAYING and MEANING?
Well Age, you said people "OBSERVED the sun revolving around the earth". That's not what they observed, because that's not what happens. The apparent motion of the sun across the sky is evidence that supports the hypothesis that the sun orbits the Earth. It also supports the Copernican hypothesis that the sun is the centre of the universe, and that the Earth rotates on its axis as it orbits the sun. Another hypothesis it supports is that the sun is one of many stars that has a system of planets that make up the Milky Way galaxy and that there is no centre of the universe. All of those hypotheses have been, or are subject to revision.
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amWhat were you PRESUMING I was SAYING AND MEANING?
I'm not presuming anything. Based on the evidence I have developed the hypothesis that you do not know the difference between evidence and hypothesis. Like all hypotheses, it is subject to revision in the light of new evidence. In other words Age, if you can demonstrate a basic grasp of what is really not a complicated distinction, I will amend my hypothesis.
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amAnd UNTIL ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' for this 'idea' is PROVIDED, what 'I' ACTUALLY OBSERVE seems to be far MORE LIKELY to be ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.
So when you see the sunrise, what do observe?
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amYou have FAILED COMPLETELY to PROVIDE what 'blue shift' is meant to be ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR, because of the OBVIOUS following consequences, to you.
If ever the difference between observation and hypothesis sinks in, and I'm not optimistic, then you will understand why this from over two years ago does exactly what you say I haven't done:
uwot wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pmOff the top of my head, there are roughly 100 galaxies that show blue shift. They are either local, like Andromeda, and are being pulled together by gravity, or they are in the Virgo cluster, all of which is heading our way (if you buy the Doppler explanation)-part of the general turbulence of the universe, as far as we can tell. The other trillion or so all display redshift.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:16 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:14 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:40 pm
Are you in a mental ward?
It could be said, yes, and, at times, it certainly feels this way.

But, if you are asking this from, the straight to the point perspective of, a building with locks on it to keep those inside, in there, at that very given moment when you asked that clarifying question, then the answer is no.

So, what did you mean exactly?
What kind of mental ward are you talking about?
No particular mental ward.

I was just seeking out those who JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS or to BELIEVING, for evidence and poof, and to separate them from those who do not.

See, what can be ascertained here, from this example, is that through CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, thee ACTUAL Truth of things can actually be discovered, learned, and/or become KNOWN.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:24 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:37 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm
Those are the words of a terrible egomaniac.
If you weren't also totally shit they would indicate a supervillain.
As it is, you just a harmless attention seeking braggart.
Each time I read Age's posts I think of a small boy, red in the face, stamping his feet.
In this case he is also wearing an alien mask.
THANK YOU.

The VIEWS, SEEN, and then PROVIDE, by 'you', human beings, just by THE WORDS before 'you', ILLUSTRATES my points EXACTLY.

Now, NOT EVERY one does NOR will SEE the EXACT SAME thing that this one does, ALTHOUGH the EXACT SAME WORDS are being CLEARLY DISPLAYED, to each and EVERY one of 'you' here.

And, this is A 'PRIME' EXAMPLE of EXACTLY HOW EACH of 'you' SEES things DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH there is ONLY One absolute and irrefutable Truth, which is CLEARLY IN FRONT OF ALL of 'you', human beings.

So, in the EXAMPLE, which you have PROVIDED here for 'us' "sculptor", NO one can REFUTE the ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE THEM, they are CLEARLY WRITTEN and for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE, just like thee Universe is CLEARLY HERE for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE. But EACH one of 'you' has their OWN perception AND view of 'things'.

Now, the reason WHY 'you' ALL have DIFFERENT perceptions AND views of the One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth of things, is SOLELY because of the DIFFERENT experiences that that individual body, which 'you' are in, has had.

So, NOW 'you' KNOW HOW and WHY 'you' ALL OBSERVE and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH ALL of 'you' are LOOKING AT and SEEING the EXACT SAME ACTUAL THINGS.
Priceless
:lol:
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amRemember that it was 'you', human beings, with MANY different names and labels, who OBSERVED the sun revolving around the earth, and we all KNOW how that OBSERVATION to out, in relation to thee ACTUAL Truth of things, correct?
uwot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:22 pmNo Age. What people observed was the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. It looks like the sun is moving, and because we don't feel any of our motion through space, most people believed that the earth is stationary.
So, HOW EXACTLY is that ANY DIFFERENT from what I was ACTUALLY SAYING and MEANING?
Well Age, you said people "OBSERVED the sun revolving around the earth". That's not what they observed, because that's not what happens. The apparent motion of the sun across the sky is evidence that supports the hypothesis that the sun orbits the Earth. It also supports the Copernican hypothesis that the sun is the centre of the universe, and that the Earth rotates on its axis as it orbits the sun. Another hypothesis it supports is that the sun is one of many stars that has a system of planets that make up the Milky Way galaxy and that there is no centre of the universe. All of those hypotheses have been, or are subject to revision.
So, again, WHY make ANY hypothesis AT ALL, especially if and when one is ONLY going to observe just a part of the WHOLE Picture, and NOT the WHOLE Picture, Itself, and especially considering the FULL and True Picture is ALWAYS able to be LOOKED AT, OBSERVED, and DISCUSSED.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amWhat were you PRESUMING I was SAYING AND MEANING?
I'm not presuming anything.
So, if you are NOT 'presuming', then this implies that you KNOW, for sure.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 amBased on the evidence I have developed the hypothesis that you do not know the difference between evidence and hypothesis.
Will you share this line of 'evidence', which you have "developed a hypothesis" from, EXACTLY?

If you do this, then we can SEE where there was ANY error in the way you developed said hypothesis. But if you do NOT share and thus HIDE your, so called, "evidence", then so be it.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am Like all hypotheses, it is subject to revision in the light of new evidence.
And, if you are STARTING to ASSUME or BELIEVE that your OWN developed 'hypothesis' is actually true, right, and/or correct, then you can and will only choose to LOOK AT and SEE ANY FURTHER or NEW 'evidence', in light of your OWN currently HELD BELIEF, or ASSUMPTION.

I have ALREADY POINTED OUT and DEMONSTRATED the ACTUAL NEGATIVE EFFECTS of doing the VERY THING that you are doing here now.

Furthermore, if you NEVER make us AWARE of what, so called, "evidence", in which your hypothesis is based upon, then we can NOT correct it if it needs it.

uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 amIn other words Age, if you can demonstrate a basic grasp of what is really not a complicated distinction, I will amend my hypothesis.
This is a bit like saying; I have developed a hypothesis that you do NOT know some 'thing', based on the evidence that you have NOT YET informed me that you know said 'thing'. And, until you demonstrate that you know that 'thing' I will continue to HOLD ONTO my OWN developed hypothesis, and may well ASSUME and/or BELIEVE it is ACTUALLY true, in the meanwhile.

By the way, you might have to WAIT a WHILE, considering the FACT that you will NOT ask a CLARIFYING QUESTION here.

Also, considering the FACT that you think or BELIEVE that red shift is "evidence" for an expanding Universe. What you, "yourself", "uwot", appear the word 'evidence' to ACTUALLY mean and refer to is VERY DIFFERENT to what "others" say.

And, WHY would did you even MAKE UP A HYPOTHESIS, and are hold onto that, about what I do or do NOT know? Especially considering the FACT that you could have just ASKED ME, BEFORE, INSTEAD.

To me, a 'hypothesis' is; just a GUESS or an ASSUMPTION about what could be true, or in other words; just a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation, or; a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth, among other things.

Whereas, to me, 'evidence' is; the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid, or; is 'that' what backs up and supports thee ACTUAL Truth of thing or just a view of things.

So, to me, the uncomplicated distinction between the definition/s used for the words 'hypothesis' and 'evidence' is; one backs up and supports truth, while the other is just a guess or assumption about what could be true. I will let you decide which one is which.

So, can you demonstrate a basic grasp of what is really not a complicated distinction between the definition/s used for the 'hypothesis' and the 'evidence' words?

if yes, then will you here?

Also, you do not appear to know the difference between proof and evidence.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amAnd UNTIL ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' for this 'idea' is PROVIDED, what 'I' ACTUALLY OBSERVE seems to be far MORE LIKELY to be ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.
So when you see the sunrise, what do observe?
But the sun does NOT 'rise'. So, I do NOT observe the sun 'rise'.
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 amYou have FAILED COMPLETELY to PROVIDE what 'blue shift' is meant to be ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR, because of the OBVIOUS following consequences, to you.
If ever the difference between observation and hypothesis sinks in, [/quote]

Does saying this here, now infer that you have also developed another hypothesis that I do NOT know the difference between observation and hypothesis AS WELL, which is, supposedly, based on some, so called, "evidence, which you supposedly, have?

The difference between an 'observation' and a 'hypothesis', can, literally, be CLEARLY observed, and KNOWN.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 amand I'm not optimistic, then you will understand why this from over two years ago does exactly what you say I haven't done:
uwot wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pmOff the top of my head, there are roughly 100 galaxies that show blue shift. They are either local, like Andromeda, and are being pulled together by gravity, or they are in the Virgo cluster, all of which is heading our way (if you buy the Doppler explanation)-part of the general turbulence of the universe, as far as we can tell. The other trillion or so all display redshift.
Is this REALLY the "best" you can do to ATTEMPT to 'try to' DEFLECT from the FACT that you WILL NOT SAY what 'blue shift' is MEANT TO BE 'evidence' for?

You have, VERY QUICKLY, stated what red shift IS evidence for. But in regards to blue shift you remain SILENT and SHUT.

So, what IS blue shift MEANT TO BE actual 'evidence' for, EXACTLY?

If you can NOT or will NOT just say, then that is okay.

But the MORE you 'try to' DEFLECT and REMAIN SILENT, this says more than you YET REALIZE.

Now;

Telling us "how many galaxies show blue shift" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.

Telling us that "these galaxies are, so called, "local" are being pulled together by GRAVITY", or that "those galaxies are in another cluster, which all of them are heading towards earth" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.

AND, telling us that "this is part of the, so called, "general turbulence" of the Universe, as far as SOME can tell" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.

ALSO, telling us that "SOME other galaxies display redshift is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for".

So, you can either TELL US what blue shift is evidence for, OR, you can just continue on the way you have been, for OVER two years now.

If EVER you UNDERSTAND the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between just answering the ACTUAL QUESTION posed and DEFLECTION, then you will, hopefully, understand what has ACTUALLY been happening and occurring here.
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:53 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:24 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:37 pm
Each time I read Age's posts I think of a small boy, red in the face, stamping his feet.
In this case he is also wearing an alien mask.
THANK YOU.

The VIEWS, SEEN, and then PROVIDE, by 'you', human beings, just by THE WORDS before 'you', ILLUSTRATES my points EXACTLY.

Now, NOT EVERY one does NOR will SEE the EXACT SAME thing that this one does, ALTHOUGH the EXACT SAME WORDS are being CLEARLY DISPLAYED, to each and EVERY one of 'you' here.

And, this is A 'PRIME' EXAMPLE of EXACTLY HOW EACH of 'you' SEES things DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH there is ONLY One absolute and irrefutable Truth, which is CLEARLY IN FRONT OF ALL of 'you', human beings.

So, in the EXAMPLE, which you have PROVIDED here for 'us' "sculptor", NO one can REFUTE the ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE THEM, they are CLEARLY WRITTEN and for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE, just like thee Universe is CLEARLY HERE for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE. But EACH one of 'you' has their OWN perception AND view of 'things'.

Now, the reason WHY 'you' ALL have DIFFERENT perceptions AND views of the One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth of things, is SOLELY because of the DIFFERENT experiences that that individual body, which 'you' are in, has had.

So, NOW 'you' KNOW HOW and WHY 'you' ALL OBSERVE and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH the physical eyes are LOOKING AT and SEEING the EXACT SAME ACTUAL THINGS.
Priceless
:lol:
I have worded this better now.
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:18 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:53 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:24 am

THANK YOU.

The VIEWS, SEEN, and then PROVIDE, by 'you', human beings, just by THE WORDS before 'you', ILLUSTRATES my points EXACTLY.

Now, NOT EVERY one does NOR will SEE the EXACT SAME thing that this one does, ALTHOUGH the EXACT SAME WORDS are being CLEARLY DISPLAYED, to each and EVERY one of 'you' here.

And, this is A 'PRIME' EXAMPLE of EXACTLY HOW EACH of 'you' SEES things DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH there is ONLY One absolute and irrefutable Truth, which is CLEARLY IN FRONT OF ALL of 'you', human beings.

So, in the EXAMPLE, which you have PROVIDED here for 'us' "sculptor", NO one can REFUTE the ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE THEM, they are CLEARLY WRITTEN and for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE, just like thee Universe is CLEARLY HERE for ALL to OBSERVE and SEE. But EACH one of 'you' has their OWN perception AND view of 'things'.

Now, the reason WHY 'you' ALL have DIFFERENT perceptions AND views of the One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth of things, is SOLELY because of the DIFFERENT experiences that that individual body, which 'you' are in, has had.

So, NOW 'you' KNOW HOW and WHY 'you' ALL OBSERVE and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, ALTHOUGH the physical eyes are LOOKING AT and SEEING the EXACT SAME ACTUAL THINGS.
Priceless
:lol:
I have worded this better now.
I did not read more than the first line, and am not going to bother reading anymore of it.
You are too shouty and absurd.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:27 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:18 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:53 am

Priceless
:lol:
I have worded this better now.
I did not read more than the first line, and am not going to bother reading anymore of it.
You are too shouty and absurd.
Your CLAIM of being 'too shouty' is your completely and utterly WRONG ASSUMPTION, as I have NOT shouted once, let alone MORE than once, to be "too shouty", and as for being able to ASCERTAIN that I am 'absurd', in just the two words of, THANK YOU, then this SHOWS and REVEALS who EXACTLY is being Truly ABSURD, and/or DISHONEST here.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amTo me, a 'hypothesis' is; just a GUESS or an ASSUMPTION about what could be true, or in other words; just a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation, or; a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth, among other things.
Well done Age, that's exactly what it is.
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amWhereas, to me, 'evidence' is; the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid, or; is 'that' what backs up and supports thee ACTUAL Truth of thing or just a view of things.
Here's where you lose the plot. Evidence does not only support "thee ACTUAL Truth", it supports any hypothesis that is consistent with that evidence. Where you have competing hypotheses, you do "further investigation" to find out if you can eliminate one or other hypothesis.
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amAlso, you do not appear to know the difference between proof and evidence.
That'll be you Age. Proof has little to do with science, being restricted to mathematics and logic: a proof is basically a tautology, 2+2=4 for example. You can prove that the things either side of the equals sign are equivalent. Because of the problem of induction, you cannot prove any scientific hypothesis; the go to example being white swans, no number of which will prove the hypothesis 'All swans are white'. If you follow Popper, and face it Age, you have no idea who I'm talking about, you will accept his assertion that hypotheses can be falsified, and indeed must be vulnerable to qualify as scientific. 'All swans are white' in this limited sense thus qualifies as a scientific statement, because one black swan will falsify it.

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amTelling us that "these galaxies are, so called, "local" are being pulled together by GRAVITY", or that "those galaxies are in another cluster, which all of them are heading towards earth" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.

AND, telling us that "this is part of the, so called, "general turbulence" of the Universe, as far as SOME can tell" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.
Earth to Age: Yes it is.
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