What is philosophy?

For all things philosophical.

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Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm
Age wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:50 pm If you came to realize and understand who and what God ACTUALLY IS, how the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK, and how to create a Truly peaceful and harmonious 'world' for ABSOLUTELY EVERY one, FOREVER MORE, then how long do you envision it would take you to word things differently to be able to EXPLAIN this to just one human being, let alone ALL of 'you', human beings, uniformly, so that ALL of you could and WOULD change your ways, for the better, for ALL of 'you'?
I don't think it needs to be explained.
If you do NOT think 'it' NEEDS to be EXPLAINED, then just TELL 'us' WHY 'you' CONTINUE DOING WRONG, in the days when this was written, by ABUSING "yourselves" and the 'world', in which you find "yourselves" in?
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm I think everyone already has complete access to all that they need, and all that they are part of.
You REALLY do NOT LISTEN to what I have been ACTUALLY SAYING, do you?

OF COURSE EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that they NEED, and ALL that they are a part of. I am the one who has been STATING this FACT.

BUT, BECAUSE you BELIEVE I have been saying otherwise, then this all that you have been SEEING and HEARING in the ACTUAL WORDS that I have been WRITING and SAYING.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm They don't need to have anything in particular told to them.
OF COURSE 'you' do NOT 'NEED' to have ANY thing in particular told to 'you'.

In FACT, if 'you', adult human beings, ALLOWED children to grow up to be who they Truly ARE, ALL by "themselves", WITHOUT 'you' TELLING what is right and wrong, then they would ACTUALLY grow, and evolve, WITHOUT CONFUSION nor MISUNDERSTANDING into "their" True Self, and ALREADY be living the way of life I described above.

BUT it is ACTUALLY because of people like 'you', "lacewing", who keep TRYING TO TELL people WHAT IS RIGHT in Life, WHY children grow up to be just like 'you' and SO CONFUSED in Life.

Are you even AWARE that people ACTUALLY do NOT 'NEED' to be TOLD that; "They don't need to have anything in particular told to them" ALSO, which, OBVIOUSLY, INCLUDES what 'you' are TELLING them here now?
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm You seem to have a delusion that you need to explain things to people, and that they are too closed to see/understand, so it is your mission to find the right words to tell them.
AND, you seem to have a delusion that you needed to explain 'this' to me, correct?

And, which people could see it as well, correct?

I have NO 'need' to do absolutely ANY thing. However, because 'I' would like ALL human beings, and ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, to experience the life that they ALL Truly WANT and DESIRE, then I just want to SHARE what I have observed and experienced.

Is that TOO MUCH?
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm Get over yourself! Give "god" some credit for existing throughout ALL... and manifesting in ways that make sense for each person, and the whole.
In your OWN little 'world' "lacewing" is it NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL that God is ACTUALLY manifesting, achieving, and ACTUALIZING RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW?

When, and IF, 'you' STOP BELIEVING what you OBVIOUSLY are here now, then you WILL STOP having the delusion, twisted, and distorted view, which you SEE now, and you WILL START SEEING what is ACTUALLY True and REAL here.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm Any religious mindset that claims one person or group has the answers that must be relayed to everyone else is spinning a self-indulgent fantasy, which often becomes extreme and delusional.
YES we ALREADY KNOW that your childhood "lacewing" has had a very strong influence on how you SEE things now. But the quicker you STOP allowing your OWN childhood experiences to effect the way you SEE and VIEW things now, then the quicker you can start SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth IS.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm You communicate in such a way.
And, the reason WHY 'I', and "others", communicate in "such a way", to 'you', IS BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS, well to 'me' anyway.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm It's not that hard to have good communication with intelligent spiritual/human beings. But as long as you separate yourself as the "knower", and everyone else is supposed to ask you questions, you have shown yourself to be a self-glorifying fool and fraud.
Okay, if that is what I have SHOWN to you, and is ONLY what you can SEE, then this is PERFECTLY FINE, with me.

'you', "lacewing", have ALREADY BEEN TOLD how to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY. But 'I' CERTAINLY can NOT MAKE YOU do 'that' NOR ANY thing else. If you do NOT want to, at least, 'try' something NEW, and are PERFECTLY HAPPY with the way 'you' are, and the way the 'world' is, right now, then so be it.

If you do NOT think that you NEED changing in any way, shape, nor form, then stay EXACTLY as you are now. If that way is working out PERFECTLY for you now, then WHY would you want to CHANGE, anyway?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm
Age wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:24 am
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am
Being called a failure by you doesn't me make one.
But 'me' being called an "IDIOT", by 'you', makes 'me' an "IDIOT", correct?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am I think it's a fact that there is a "True Self", and it's the same as the world, all existence, because how else could it be.
Okay.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am Again: your job is to prove that the True Self is always achieving, because we humans sure can't see that this is happening.
Do you think here that 'you', "atla", have the ability for ALL human beings?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am If you can't prove it, then you're probably just a generic nutjob with a stupid certain belief.
LOL
LOL
LOL

How does this 'logically follow'?

To you, are ALL human beings who can NOT prove their claims, so called, "generic nut jobs" with stupid certain beliefs?

Also, do NOT forget ALL of those CLAIMS, which you have made in this forum, which you can NOT prove. I have POINTED OUT some of them, but there are still MANY MORE.

By the way, I can prove 'it'.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am If you think that the "True Self" is less than all existence, for example it doesn't include the bad/evil, then it's your job to prove this as well.
Okay.
Humans have already come up with a million different "God" and "True Self being" beliefs before you,
So what? Were ANY of them True, Right, Accurate, or Correct?

If no, then you can either LOOK AT EVERY thing else from now on and continue to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS based on those previous experiences or you can do things DIFFERENTLY. The choices is yours, and yours ALONE.

You also appear to be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CONFUSING the word 'belief' here with the 'God' or the 'True Self' words.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm but none of those beliefs were proven true, those people were probably just nutjobs with stupid certain beliefs.
When, and IF, you START looking at future words put before you NOT as 'beliefs' but as 'just words', then you WILL START being able to SEE things MORE CLEARLY.

Also, because previous words put before you were NOT proven true, do you BELIEVE that ALL future words put before you, regarding some issues, will also ALWAYS NOT be proven true?

If yes, then WHY?

What are you basing this PRESUMPTION on EXACTLY?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
Okay.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm But here's your chance to show us wrong, prove 'it'.
What is the 'it', which the 'you' is referring to here now?

Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm Nothing is ever certain and it is possible that you're right, where millions failed you succeeded, but we have yet to see you provide the proof.
THANK YOU profusely here "atla".

You are SHOWING how a Truly OPEN being a human being can be, and thus also SHOWING how Truly INTELLIGENT human beings can REALLY and Truly BE.

Now to SHOW or REVEAL what 'God', or thee True Self, ACTUALLY IS, we just NEED to LOOK AT and DISCUSS what ACTUALLY EXISTS.

Those who are Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS, WILL BEGIN.

What ACTUALLY EXISTS is what ACTUALLY IS, and PROVIDES, the PROOF.

i do NOT provide NOR show the proof. i am just learning how to find the right words to explain to you HOW you can and will FIND and SEE the PROOF "your self".

See, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well. Which means, IF people REALLY WANT to SEE proof for SOME thing, then they will do what it takes to LOOK FOR and TO FIND that PROOF.

But, if someone ALREADY has a PRECONCEIVED idea about what some thing is, then they will only be LOOKING in a particular way for that particular THING. Meanwhile they will MISS and NOT SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things, which is ACTUALLY PASSING THEM BY.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am If you do NOT think 'it' NEEDS to be EXPLAINED, then just TELL 'us' WHY 'you' CONTINUE DOING WRONG, in the days when this was written, by ABUSING "yourselves" and the 'world', in which you find "yourselves" in?
This is your "stuff"... and your limitation. You are seeing "wrong"... instead of seeing beyond that.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am OF COURSE EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that they NEED, and ALL that they are a part of. I am the one who has been STATING this FACT.
No, you are not "the one" who has been stating this; rather you may be one of many who sees and thinks this. But not everyone comes up with the same ideas and conclusions (or distortions) that make up your view.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 amBUT, BECAUSE you BELIEVE I have been saying otherwise, then this all that you have been SEEING and HEARING in the ACTUAL WORDS that I have been WRITING and SAYING.
I think that any of us, including you and me, can shift our views any time... so I am always open to that happening in others and myself. Yes, I have listened to you, and I have devoted a lot of energy to exchanging ideas with you, and commenting on the claims you make. The issue is not a misunderstanding of your words... it is a disagreement with some of your claims and false projections.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am
I have NO 'need' to do absolutely ANY thing. However, because 'I' would like ALL human beings, and ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, to experience the life that they ALL Truly WANT and DESIRE, then I just want to SHARE what I have observed and experienced.
You are not unique in wanting that. You just like to blame everyone else for being the problem. Grow up.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am In your OWN little 'world' "lacewing" is it NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL that God is ACTUALLY manifesting, achieving, and ACTUALIZING RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW?
Of course it is. People experience it differently.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am When, and IF, 'you' STOP BELIEVING what you OBVIOUSLY are here now, then you WILL STOP having the delusion, twisted, and distorted view, which you SEE now, and you WILL START SEEING what is ACTUALLY True and REAL here.
That sounds like your stuff... that you're trying to project onto others. Maybe YOU should listen more. YOU seem to be missing a lot that people are telling you. There is a lot more truth than just your view.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm Any religious mindset that claims one person or group has the answers that must be relayed to everyone else is spinning a self-indulgent fantasy, which often becomes extreme and delusional.
YES we ALREADY KNOW that your childhood "lacewing" has had a very strong influence on how you SEE things now. But the quicker you STOP allowing your OWN childhood experiences to effect the way you SEE and VIEW things now, then the quicker you can start SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth IS.
How does my past experience change the truth of what I said? I do not feel limited by my past. Again, you seem to be projecting your own stuff. Pay honest attention to the way you do that, and you might see a whole lot more.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 amIf you do NOT want to, at least, 'try' something NEW, and are PERFECTLY HAPPY with the way 'you' are, and the way the 'world' is, right now, then so be it. If you do NOT think that you NEED changing in any way, shape, nor form, then stay EXACTLY as you are now.
You have no idea how much I shift and flow and evolve, and live in the moment. Again, you seem to be describing and projecting yourself and you don't even realize it.

So many of these claims you make are just absolute garbage, Age -- just like the ones you've made here that I've responded to. When you've previously received the feedback advising you of that, you ignore it and double-down and make excuses. This is why you come across as delusional and foolish and dishonest. You (like countless zealots throughout history) are making claims and projections that you have no way of knowing. And you don't even have the honor to acknowledge all that you don't know. That's what ruins your credibility.
Walker
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Walker »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 am Within the diversity of life since the first living cells emerged, what is most enduring and constant are changes for the better, i.e. there is an essence of 'continuous improvement' for the well-being of the entities and in a limited way, the species.
Well, there could be a lot of bad mutations for every one that survives, because if it doesn't survive, who would know of its existence?
Atla
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:19 am
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm
Age wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:24 am

But 'me' being called an "IDIOT", by 'you', makes 'me' an "IDIOT", correct?



Okay.



Do you think here that 'you', "atla", have the ability for ALL human beings?



LOL
LOL
LOL

How does this 'logically follow'?

To you, are ALL human beings who can NOT prove their claims, so called, "generic nut jobs" with stupid certain beliefs?

Also, do NOT forget ALL of those CLAIMS, which you have made in this forum, which you can NOT prove. I have POINTED OUT some of them, but there are still MANY MORE.

By the way, I can prove 'it'.



Okay.
Humans have already come up with a million different "God" and "True Self being" beliefs before you,
So what? Were ANY of them True, Right, Accurate, or Correct?

If no, then you can either LOOK AT EVERY thing else from now on and continue to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS based on those previous experiences or you can do things DIFFERENTLY. The choices is yours, and yours ALONE.

You also appear to be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CONFUSING the word 'belief' here with the 'God' or the 'True Self' words.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm but none of those beliefs were proven true, those people were probably just nutjobs with stupid certain beliefs.
When, and IF, you START looking at future words put before you NOT as 'beliefs' but as 'just words', then you WILL START being able to SEE things MORE CLEARLY.

Also, because previous words put before you were NOT proven true, do you BELIEVE that ALL future words put before you, regarding some issues, will also ALWAYS NOT be proven true?

If yes, then WHY?

What are you basing this PRESUMPTION on EXACTLY?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
Okay.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm But here's your chance to show us wrong, prove 'it'.
What is the 'it', which the 'you' is referring to here now?

Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm Nothing is ever certain and it is possible that you're right, where millions failed you succeeded, but we have yet to see you provide the proof.
THANK YOU profusely here "atla".

You are SHOWING how a Truly OPEN being a human being can be, and thus also SHOWING how Truly INTELLIGENT human beings can REALLY and Truly BE.

Now to SHOW or REVEAL what 'God', or thee True Self, ACTUALLY IS, we just NEED to LOOK AT and DISCUSS what ACTUALLY EXISTS.

Those who are Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS, WILL BEGIN.

What ACTUALLY EXISTS is what ACTUALLY IS, and PROVIDES, the PROOF.

i do NOT provide NOR show the proof. i am just learning how to find the right words to explain to you HOW you can and will FIND and SEE the PROOF "your self".

See, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well. Which means, IF people REALLY WANT to SEE proof for SOME thing, then they will do what it takes to LOOK FOR and TO FIND that PROOF.

But, if someone ALREADY has a PRECONCEIVED idea about what some thing is, then they will only be LOOKING in a particular way for that particular THING. Meanwhile they will MISS and NOT SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things, which is ACTUALLY PASSING THEM BY.
So you will NOT provide NOR show proof for your claims. Then your treatment as just another generic nutjob is justified, you have no proof.
By the way, millions before you already tried the "you have to see it for yourself" thing too, didn't work either. (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Walker wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:44 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 am Within the diversity of life since the first living cells emerged, what is most enduring and constant are changes for the better, i.e. there is an essence of 'continuous improvement' for the well-being of the entities and in a limited way, the species.
Well, there could be a lot of bad mutations for every one that survives, because if it doesn't survive, who would know of its existence?
A mutation which is empirically evident [survive thus known] is considered 'bad' if it cannot be sustained for long, i.e. a few generations.

A mutation that appeared and is able to adapt to its environment and existed for a long time [hundred thousands of years or million of years] or is still in existence would be considered good and had being improving for the better, else it would not have survived that long.

Thus the essence of any species in general is still 'continuous improvement for the better'.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am If you do NOT think 'it' NEEDS to be EXPLAINED, then just TELL 'us' WHY 'you' CONTINUE DOING WRONG, in the days when this was written, by ABUSING "yourselves" and the 'world', in which you find "yourselves" in?
This is your "stuff"... and your limitation.
My "limitation" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Your Honest answer would be MUCH APPRECIATED here.

Let 'us' SEE you SHOW the readers that you ACTUALLY KNOW what you are TALKING ABOUT here.

And, if you will NOT admit, even to "your own self", that you DO WRONG and abuse "others", and the 'world' you live in, (ultimately "yourselves"), then there is NOTHING needed to LOOK AT and CHANGE.

You can just carry on, as you are now, as though there is NO WRONG at all, and EVERYTHING is PERFECT how it currently is. Which, in turn, leads you to only carry on with the ABUSE that 'you' are DOING now, and which is WHAT would EVENTUALLY lead to the demise of human beings, themselves. Not that that is of ANY concern AT ALL in the True and BIG FULL Picture of things.

But, if you will NOT even be Honest with "your self", then I certainly do NOT expect 'you' to be Honest with "others" here, "lacewing".

Also, DO NOT FORGET that I have ALREADY EXPLAINED WHY Everything is PERFECT EXACTLY HOW It is NOW.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am You are seeing "wrong"... instead of seeing beyond that.
LOL Okay.

'you', "lacewing", SEE 'right'. Whereas, 'I', or ANY one "else" who does NOT SEE things as "lacewing" does, SEES "WRONG".

Sounds like you have some sort of NEED to TELL 'us', "wrong seeing beings", some thing here, correct?

Also, what is 'that', which you CLAIM I am NOT "seeing beyond"?

Furthermore, could it be A POSSIBILITY AT ALL in "lacewing's" 'world, and view and seeing of things, that I have ACTUALLY SEEN beyond what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE I have.

ALSO, do NOT forget, that if you do NOT TELL 'us' what 'that' IS, which you can CLAIM I am NOT "seeing beyond", then 'we' have absolutely NO idea what 'you' are referring to, and if, in fact, you have ACTUALLY even SEEN beyond 'that', "yourself"?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am OF COURSE EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that they NEED, and ALL that they are a part of. I am the one who has been STATING this FACT.
No, you are not "the one" who has been stating this;
LOL
LOL
LOL

This is ANOTHER PRIME and PERFECT EXAMPLE of just how BLIND and CLOSED some human beings were, in the days when this was being written, BECAUSE of their OWN BELIEFS.

Now, what are you basing this, "No, you are not "the one" who has been stating this" CLAIM on, EXACTLY?

When one LOOKS BACK at what I have ACTUALLY WRITTEN and SAID this that I have been STATING that EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that they NEED, and ALL that they are a part of. In other words, I have been CLEARLY STATING that EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL-THERE-IS and/or thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

It is 'you', "lacewing", who BELIEVES otherwise. In other words, 'you' BELIEVE that I do NOT have, and can NOT KNOW, thee ACTUAL Truth of things, correct?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am rather you may be one of many who sees and thinks this.
So, are you NOW SAYING that NOT EVERY one has COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that they NEED, and ALL that they are a part of?

You appear to be VERY CONFUSED here, but HOPEFULLY you will make things CLEARER and BETTER UNDERSTOOD now. So, do 'I' and "others" ACTUALLY have COMPLETE and FULL access to ALL that we NEED, and ALL that we are a part of, OR NOT?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am But not everyone comes up with the same ideas and conclusions (or distortions) that make up your view.
OF COURSE NOT. This is because of the way the brain works and because of the OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT and INDIVIDUAL human bodies.

OBVIOUSLY, NOT EVERY body SEES and EXPERIENCES the EXACT SAME things, so VERY NATURALLY EVERY one, LITERALLY, comes up with DIFFERENT ideas and conclusions, that make up their view.

What is 'it', EXACTLY, which you are 'trying' so hard to RELAY here?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 amBUT, BECAUSE you BELIEVE I have been saying otherwise, then this all that you have been SEEING and HEARING in the ACTUAL WORDS that I have been WRITING and SAYING.
I think that any of us, including you and me, can shift our views any time...
I do NOT just 'think' this, I KNOW this.

In fact, I have been SAYING that it is IMPOSSIBLE to NOT shift views.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am so I am always open to that happening in others and myself.
I am NOT sure WHY you are ALWAYS OPEN to some thing that just OCCURS NATURALLY ANYWAY.

The ONLY time a view does NOT change is while a BELIEF that some thing is true is existing.

Within a body there is NOT a BELIEF, then views are CONSTANTLY CHANGING, and it is from CHANGING views HOW 'you', human beings, have been CONTINUALLY CHANGING VIEWS, which is what has ALLOWED 'you' to keep LEARNING and CREATING new and more things.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am Yes, I have listened to you, and I have devoted a lot of energy to exchanging ideas with you, and commenting on the claims you make. The issue is not a misunderstanding of your words... it is a disagreement with some of your claims and false projections.
OF COURSE there has been DISAGREEMENT of my CLAIMS. This is EXACTLY because of the ACTUAL WAY I make them, and because of what ACTUALLY SAYING.

If there is ANY DISAGREEMENT with ANY, alleged, "false projections", then just PRODUCE the ACTUAL PROJECTION that I have PROVIDED in the EXACT SAME WORDS and PUNCTUATION that I have used, and then just EXPLAIN WHY 'that' is FALSE.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am
I have NO 'need' to do absolutely ANY thing. However, because 'I' would like ALL human beings, and ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, to experience the life that they ALL Truly WANT and DESIRE, then I just want to SHARE what I have observed and experienced.
You are not unique in wanting that.
So, if this is what you WANT, then why do you NOT do what is NEEDED to CHANGE, for the better?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am You just like to blame everyone else for being the problem. Grow up.
I have NEVER "blamed" EVERY one "else" for being the "problem", for a few reasons.

LOL You are SO FAR OFF TRACK HERE, I am NOT sure where to begin.

And, there is SO MUCH we could GO INTO, LOOK AT, and DISCUSS here if you LIKE, that is; if you are PREPARED to be CHALLENGED and QUESTIONED ON them here?

Are you WILLING to do this?

Or, do you prefer to just MAKE CLAIMS, but NEVER do what is NECESSARY to back them up and support them?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am In your OWN little 'world' "lacewing" is it NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL that God is ACTUALLY manifesting, achieving, and ACTUALIZING RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW?
Of course it is.
So, what IS the ACTUAL ISSUE that you are having so much trouble with here?

By the way, without clarification, YOUR ANSWER may or MAY NOT be answering the ACTUAL question I posed, to you.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am People experience it differently.
OF COURSE. And, depending on what the 'it' is EXACTLY here, contrary to YOUR BELIEF, this has NEVER been in DISPUTE.

I have ALLOWED 'you' to say and make claims about 'me' so that I have the PROOF to SHOW just how, whilst a BELIEF is being maintained, that person is NOT OPEN to thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

I have NEVER even SUGGESTED that 'it' is NOT experienced differently. But you BELIEVE otherwise.

You ALSO BELIEVE that "age" is reporting to KNOW thee ACTUAL Truth, like it has some RELIGIOUS BELIEF, which it wants EVERY one to AGREE WITH. And it is BECAUSE of this BELIEF with that body, the one known as "lacewing" here is just SO CONFUSED and SO COMPLETELY OFF TRACK and MISSING THE MARK.

Now, go and CLAIM that this is ANOTHER "projection" of mine, which is also "wrong", WITHOUT EVER backing up nor supporting YOUR CLAIMS.

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am When, and IF, 'you' STOP BELIEVING what you OBVIOUSLY are here now, then you WILL STOP having the delusion, twisted, and distorted view, which you SEE now, and you WILL START SEEING what is ACTUALLY True and REAL here.
That sounds like your stuff...
And, OBVIOUSLY, 'that sounds like your stuff ...'. This is A GIVEN.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am that you're trying to project onto others.
And, you ADD this "project" word in, as though it gives YOUR STUFF, MORE WEIGHT.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am Maybe YOU should listen more.
To WHAT, EXACTLY?

'you', people, here TRYING YOUR HARDEST to ridicule me, humiliate me, and condemn me, for JUST HAVING DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THINGS THAN YOU ALL DO.

I HAVE LISTENED, and I HAVE HEARD, ENOUGH, if thee ACTUAL Truth, BE KNOWN.

AND, you SOUND EXACTLY LIKE THOSE who BELIEVED that the sun revolves around the earth, and BECAUSE they were NOT LOOKING AT nor HEARING thee ACTUAL Truth of things the ONLY thing that could resort to was ridicule, humiliation, and condemning.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am YOU seem to be missing a lot that people are telling you.
What is there to MISS?

I could NOT POSSIBLY KNOW ANY thing, which is DIFFERENT to what you CURRENTLY BELIEVE is true, because if I did, then I would, and am ALREADY just an IDIOT and INSANE RETARD, among MANY other things, to MOST OF YOU here.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am There is a lot more truth than just your view.
Considering that you have NOT heard my view YET, then HOW would you even, supposedly, KNOW?

Now, you just MADE ANOTHER CLAIM, so SHOW us if you have the CAPABILITY to back this on up with the "lot more truth", than just I supposedly view.

OBVIOUSLY you WILL NOT DO THIS.

But, to WATCH you PROVE me WRONG would be EXHILARATING, as AT LEAST it will be some thing DIFFERENT than just continually SEEING UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 pm Any religious mindset that claims one person or group has the answers that must be relayed to everyone else is spinning a self-indulgent fantasy, which often becomes extreme and delusional.
YES we ALREADY KNOW that your childhood "lacewing" has had a very strong influence on how you SEE things now. But the quicker you STOP allowing your OWN childhood experiences to effect the way you SEE and VIEW things now, then the quicker you can start SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth IS.
How does my past experience change the truth of what I said?
BECAUSE I am NOT DOING ABSOLUTELY ANY thing like what you are PURPORTING I am here. That is EXACTLY HOW your past experiences changes the, so called, "truth" of what you said here.

You just THINK and SEE that I am CLAIMING 'this', which could NOT be ANY FURTHER from thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

The reason WHY you THINK and SEE that I am CLAIMING 'this' IS because of the way you are viewing things here, which THAT VIEW comes from YOUR OWN Assumptions, which are based solely upon your OWN Previous Experiences.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am I do not feel limited by my past.
AND, what 'you' 'feel' is NOT ALWAYS True, Right, NOR even close to being Correct.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am Again, you seem to be projecting your own stuff.
And AGAIN, you REPEAT the SAME THING.

Now, what EXACTLY is "my own stuff", which, SEEMS to you, that I am "projecting"?

Just CLAIMING, "you seem to be projecting your own stuff", WITHOUT ANY CLARIFICATION or ELABORATION is SAYING NOTHING AT ALL, REALLY.

I could ALSO STATE and SAY, "you seem to be projecting your own stuff", AS WELL.

BUT SO WHAT?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am Pay honest attention to the way you do that, and you might see a whole lot more.
LOL

You can NOT and will NOT even ELABORATE on what you are TALKING ABOUT. This is BECAUSE of the way you just project your OWN stuff.

Now, I can MAKE THE CLAIM, that you are NOT paying HONEST ATTENTION to the way you do that, and if you did START PAYING HONEST ATTENTION, then you MIGHT see a WHOLE LOT MORE.

Which brings me to, What is the WHOLE LOT MORE, which, you CLAIM, I MIGHT SEE?

But what happens now is you WILL NOT SAY what this WHOLE LOT MORE ACTUALLY IS, and this is BECAUSE you do NOT even KNOW "yourself".

Unless, OF COURSE, you are going to PROVE me WRONG, by ACTUALLY backing up and supporting YOUR CLAIM, THIS TIME, which 'we' ALL would LOVE TO SEE, for A CHANGE.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 amIf you do NOT want to, at least, 'try' something NEW, and are PERFECTLY HAPPY with the way 'you' are, and the way the 'world' is, right now, then so be it. If you do NOT think that you NEED changing in any way, shape, nor form, then stay EXACTLY as you are now.
You have no idea how much I shift and flow and evolve, and live in the moment.
Do 'I' NOT?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am Again, you seem to be describing and projecting yourself and you don't even realize it.
And you describing and projecting "yourself" about how 'I' have NO IDEA how much 'you' shift and flow and evolve, and live in the moment, for ALL YOU KNOW could be a PERFECT and PRIME EXAMPLE of 'you', "lacewing", projecting "yourself". Or, is this NOT EVEN A POSSIBILITY, in "lacewing's" LITTLE 'world'?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am So many of these claims you make are just absolute garbage, Age --
REALLY?

Let us SEE just HOW MUCH 'you', the individual being, currently existing within that individual human body, ACTUALLY shifts, flows, evolves, and lives, in the moment?

You can do this by EXPLAINING just HOW 'you', through that body, ABUSE children, and the environment that children live in, and that 'you' will ACTUALLY CHANGE to PREVENT and STOP the HARM and DAMAGE that you are CONTINUALLY DOING to "others".

SHOW 'us' just HOW FREE and FLOWING 'you' REALLY ARE?

Your response, OR NON RESPONSE, will be VERY REVEALING.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am just like the ones you've made here that I've responded to. When you've previously received the feedback advising you of that, you ignore it and double-down and make excuses.
DO I?

Will you PROVIDE ACTUAL EVIDENCE and/or PROOF for this CLAIM of YOURS here?

And, if no, then WHY NOT?

But, OBVIOUSLY, if yes, then we WILL SEE that EVIDENCE or PROOF, correct?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am This is why you come across as delusional and foolish and dishonest.
I REALLY and Truly DO NOT CARE.

EVERY one who has said some thing DIFFERENT has come across delusional AND foolish AND dishonest to SOME person.

Sure you would be AWARE of just HOW delusional AND foolish AND dishonest 'you', "lacewing", comes across to SOME "others", correct?

Or, are 'you' REALLY NOT YET AWARE of this?

Also, you sound just like those who CLAIMED that the one who was INFORMING "them" that thee ACTUAL Truth IS; It is the earth that revolves around the sun, and NOT the other way around, that that one was delusional AND foolish AND dishonest BECAUSE that one had "previously received, so called, "feedback" advising them of such, which that one was TOLD that they were "ignoring it" and "doubling-down" and "making excuses" and ALL of the other things", INSTEAD of just LOOKING AT the ACTUAL WORDS being said, and DISCUSSING THEM ONLY.

The ONLY way these people, in those days, just like 'you', people, in these days, when this is being written, can OVER COME THEE ACTUAL Truth, is just TRY TO ridicule and humiliate the one EXPRESSING thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

The OBVIOUSNESS and RIDICULOUSNESS of this can be CLEARLY SEEN in the MOST STUPID OF REMARKS; The Universe is expanding because red shift is the 'evidence' of this. While COMPLETELY and UTTERLY IGNORING the FACT that there is blue shift, which OBVIOUSLY MUST BE 'evidence' for the OPPOSITE, that is; a CONTRACTING Universe.

And, when the STUPIDITY of making the remark red shift is 'evidence' for an EXPANDING Universe is POINTED OUT and HIGHLIGHTED, what those people who do NOT want to LOOK AT and DISCUSS this, RESORT TO is RIDICULE and HUMILIATION, without EVER even considering that that one MIGHT JUST HAVE a LOT more, NOT JUST 'evidence' but ACTUAL PROOF that what they CURRENTLY BELIEVE is true IS NOT.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am You (like countless zealots throughout history) are making claims and projections that you have no way of knowing.
LOL Yet here we are with THEE ONE known as "lacewing", who PURPORTS that they KNOW what can and can NOT be KNOWN.

LOL Do 'you', "lacewing", REALLY BELIEVE that 'you' KNOW the 'things', which 'we' have NO WAY OF KNOWING?

Your Honest answer here would be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am And you don't even have the honor to acknowledge all that you don't know. That's what ruins your credibility.
LOL Name ONE THING that you CLAIM 'I' do NOT KNOW?

Do this so that you can be SEEN to be AT LEAST 'TRYING TO' back up and support YOUR CLAIMS.

Also, do this, so that we AT LEAST have SOME thing to LOOK AT and DISCUSS. Because if you do NOT PROVIDE ANY thing, then you will NEVER ACTUALLY KNOW the things PURPORTED to be NOT KNOWN by 'me'.

AND, I have YET TO SEE 'you' 'have the honor to acknowledge ALL that you do NOT know', EITHER.

Do you KNOW of ANY one who has even had the honor to acknowledge ALL that they do NOT KNOW?

If no, then WHY EXPECT that from the one known as "age" here?

AND, have 'you' even considered the IMPOSSIBILITY of just HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE to acknowledge ALL that one does NOT KNOW? Especially considering the FACT that one can ALWAYS be, while FULLY conscious, obtaining NEW and MORE knowledge?

In fact, the MORE we LOOK INTO YOUR CLAIM here, the MORE ABSURD it can become.

However, if you just WANT, and/or EXPECT, me to just acknowledge that there are SOME things that i do NOT YET KNOW, then this is just an OBVIOUS FACT, which goes without saying, and therefore does NOT NEED SAYING. Unless, OF COURSE, you WERE BELIEVING OTHERWISE.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 am Within the diversity of life since the first living cells emerged, what is most enduring and constant are changes for the better, i.e. there is an essence of 'continuous improvement' for the well-being of the entities and in a limited way, the species.
So, to you, it is NOT POSSIBLE that before things get better they could get worse?

Could it be A POSSIBILITY that a species, like the human one, has to experience, and thus learn, what is bad or not good, in order to KNOW what is good, AND the Right thing to do to ACTUALLY create a 'continuous improvement' for "themselves", and thus the WHOLE ENVIRONMENT, in which they FOUND THEMSELVES IN?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:19 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:19 am
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm
Humans have already come up with a million different "God" and "True Self being" beliefs before you,
So what? Were ANY of them True, Right, Accurate, or Correct?

If no, then you can either LOOK AT EVERY thing else from now on and continue to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS based on those previous experiences or you can do things DIFFERENTLY. The choices is yours, and yours ALONE.

You also appear to be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CONFUSING the word 'belief' here with the 'God' or the 'True Self' words.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm but none of those beliefs were proven true, those people were probably just nutjobs with stupid certain beliefs.
When, and IF, you START looking at future words put before you NOT as 'beliefs' but as 'just words', then you WILL START being able to SEE things MORE CLEARLY.

Also, because previous words put before you were NOT proven true, do you BELIEVE that ALL future words put before you, regarding some issues, will also ALWAYS NOT be proven true?

If yes, then WHY?

What are you basing this PRESUMPTION on EXACTLY?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
Okay.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm But here's your chance to show us wrong, prove 'it'.
What is the 'it', which the 'you' is referring to here now?

Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm Nothing is ever certain and it is possible that you're right, where millions failed you succeeded, but we have yet to see you provide the proof.
THANK YOU profusely here "atla".

You are SHOWING how a Truly OPEN being a human being can be, and thus also SHOWING how Truly INTELLIGENT human beings can REALLY and Truly BE.

Now to SHOW or REVEAL what 'God', or thee True Self, ACTUALLY IS, we just NEED to LOOK AT and DISCUSS what ACTUALLY EXISTS.

Those who are Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS, WILL BEGIN.

What ACTUALLY EXISTS is what ACTUALLY IS, and PROVIDES, the PROOF.

i do NOT provide NOR show the proof. i am just learning how to find the right words to explain to you HOW you can and will FIND and SEE the PROOF "your self".

See, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well. Which means, IF people REALLY WANT to SEE proof for SOME thing, then they will do what it takes to LOOK FOR and TO FIND that PROOF.

But, if someone ALREADY has a PRECONCEIVED idea about what some thing is, then they will only be LOOKING in a particular way for that particular THING. Meanwhile they will MISS and NOT SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things, which is ACTUALLY PASSING THEM BY.
So you will NOT provide NOR show proof for your claims.
I HAVE SHOWN PARTS of the PROOF for my claims.

Have you NOT SEEN THEM YET?

If you have NOT YET SEEN those parts, then there is NO USE in SHOWING you the REST, correct?

By the way, I have even asked you what is the 'it', which you are talking about in relation to PROOF. But you do NOT even have the ABILITY or DECENCY to ANSWER and CLARIFY.
Atla wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:19 am
Then your treatment as just another generic nutjob is justified, you have no proof.
LOL

The sun revolves around the earth RIGHT?
Atla wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:19 am By the way, millions before you already tried the "you have to see it for yourself" thing too, didn't work either.
Do you have ANY IDEA WHY that did NOT WORK?

In case you have MISSED SOMETHING HERE, then the REASON WHY is BECAUSE the HOW has NOT YET been EXPLAINED.

Do ANY of 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written, KNOW HOW to SEE 'It' YET?

OF COURSE NOT.

Unless, OF COURSE, there are some who have NOT YET EXPRESSED 'HOW'.

'you', "atla", OBVIOUSLY do NOT KNOW HOW, correct?
Atla wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:19 am (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
LOL

Human and history is just PLAIN OBVIOUS.

And, 'you', "atla", like the rest of 'you', human beings, throughout history ASSUME way to much, for your own good.

Physical matter continues in its completely, and ONLY, NATURAL way of continually changing in shape and form. Physical matter formed into the shape of the human body. This body evolved to have five senses, which is what is able to observe and/or experiences the Universe, around it. Through these five senses information enters the brain, which this information is gathered and stored as thoughts and memories. The sixth sense, within the human body, is thee Mind, of which there is ONLY One, throughout the WHOLE of the Universe. This Mind is Truly FREE and OPEN and allows matter to be able to do, create, and achieve whatever is imagined. Matter evolved into the shape and form of the human brain, this formation became able to further form language, from, and about, the 'world', the body experiences, around it. Through the sharing of this language of 'things', 'things' become gradually MORE KNOWN, or MORE CLEARER.

Because of language, from the five senses, and the sixth sense, which is Truly OPEN, ALL imaginings can be SHARED with other human bodies of matter.

However, because the Mind allows absolutely ANY thing to be imagined, and the human brain is formed into being able to gather and store absolutely ANY information, sent to it through the five sense, ANY and ALL information gathered and stored can be IMAGINED to be true, right, or correct, when, in fact, it is ACTUALLY False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, relative to the Universe, Itself.

Now, because human beings, themselves, have the ability to learn, understand, and reason absolutely ANY and EVERY thing, they also have the ability to "reason" 'that', which is ACTUALLY False, Wrong, and Incorrect, as actually being true, right, and/or correct, but ONLY to themselves, ONLY. For example, flat earth, sun revolving around earth, Universe expansion, and/or Universe beginning. And whenever ANY 'thought' is BELIEVED to be true, then NO AMOUNT of what is ACTUALLY True, Right, and Correct can be PRESENTED to sway the 'thought' into CORRECTION. while that 'thought' is BELIEVED TRUE. That is; WHILE the 'thought' is BELIEVED to be true, right, or correct.

And that is a very short summary of human and history, up to when this was being written.

In the future, to those times, adult human beings learned HOW to rid themselves of ALL those BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS that they were continually coming up with, which in turn ALLOWED them SO VERY EASILY and SO VERY SIMPLY to just SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which then helped them TREMENDOUSLY in creating and achieving thee ACTUAL 'world', which they ALL IMAGINED OF and REALLY WANTED to live in.

The speed of this TURN AROUND was EXPONENTIAL as they had CHANGED themselves, through VOLUNTARY ENTHUSIASM, and because the TURN AROUND was in a NATURAL FLOW and BALANCE with "their" NATURAL Being. Although it took hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years to evolve to where they were, when this was written, the TURN AROUND only takes/took (depending on one's perspective) a couple of generations. Again, this VERY QUICK CHANGE is just because of FOLLOWING the NATURAL FLOW of things, instead of 'trying to' reorder NATURE, Itself, to how one species WANTED things to be.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 am If you do NOT think 'it' NEEDS to be EXPLAINED, then just TELL 'us' WHY 'you' CONTINUE DOING WRONG, in the days when this was written, by ABUSING "yourselves" and the 'world', in which you find "yourselves" in?
This is your "stuff"... and your limitation.
My "limitation" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?
Focusing on what you see as wrong. Because that is not the whole picture. That is actually a very small picture. So it's a limitation. Get it?
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amYour Honest answer would be MUCH APPRECIATED here.
Great. There you have it.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am You are seeing "wrong"... instead of seeing beyond that.
'you', "lacewing", SEE 'right'. Whereas, 'I', or ANY one "else" who does NOT SEE things as "lacewing" does, SEES "WRONG".
That's not what I was saying. Do you seriously not understand? No, it appears you don't. It seems so easy for you to distort what is being said.

Any of us can see that things are "wrong" wherever we look. But if we are looking from a broader perspective, perhaps we can see how things are "right". When you step back from the human drama... the human intoxication... and view from a place of more clarity and acceptance, perhaps you might see how everything is flowing quite magnificently, despite how it looks on the human level.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am Also, what is 'that', which you CLAIM I am NOT "seeing beyond"?
Seeing things as wrong.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amFurthermore, could it be A POSSIBILITY AT ALL in "lacewing's" 'world, and view and seeing of things, that I have ACTUALLY SEEN beyond what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE I have.
It is surely a possibility that you can. I don't know if you have. I'm only responding to your claims. If you have seen beyond them, it makes no sense that you keep repeating them, and distorting and projecting, as you do.

And now... I'll read no further in your response. Your distortions are exhausting to wade through. And the flood of your inaccuracies are just sad. There seems to be no point in clarifying anything with you, as you seem intent on mangling it. I guess I keep trying to give you more credit for understanding, than you appear to have... at the time when these things have been written. :lol:
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:19 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:19 am
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm
Humans have already come up with a million different "God" and "True Self being" beliefs before you,
So what? Were ANY of them True, Right, Accurate, or Correct?

If no, then you can either LOOK AT EVERY thing else from now on and continue to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS based on those previous experiences or you can do things DIFFERENTLY. The choices is yours, and yours ALONE.

You also appear to be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CONFUSING the word 'belief' here with the 'God' or the 'True Self' words.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm but none of those beliefs were proven true, those people were probably just nutjobs with stupid certain beliefs.
When, and IF, you START looking at future words put before you NOT as 'beliefs' but as 'just words', then you WILL START being able to SEE things MORE CLEARLY.

Also, because previous words put before you were NOT proven true, do you BELIEVE that ALL future words put before you, regarding some issues, will also ALWAYS NOT be proven true?

If yes, then WHY?

What are you basing this PRESUMPTION on EXACTLY?
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm (Which you would know if you had any sort of connection to the real world, some vaguest idea about humans and history.)
Okay.
Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm But here's your chance to show us wrong, prove 'it'.
What is the 'it', which the 'you' is referring to here now?

Atla wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm Nothing is ever certain and it is possible that you're right, where millions failed you succeeded, but we have yet to see you provide the proof.
THANK YOU profusely here "atla".

You are SHOWING how a Truly OPEN being a human being can be, and thus also SHOWING how Truly INTELLIGENT human beings can REALLY and Truly BE.

Now to SHOW or REVEAL what 'God', or thee True Self, ACTUALLY IS, we just NEED to LOOK AT and DISCUSS what ACTUALLY EXISTS.

Those who are Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS, WILL BEGIN.

What ACTUALLY EXISTS is what ACTUALLY IS, and PROVIDES, the PROOF.

i do NOT provide NOR show the proof. i am just learning how to find the right words to explain to you HOW you can and will FIND and SEE the PROOF "your self".

See, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well. Which means, IF people REALLY WANT to SEE proof for SOME thing, then they will do what it takes to LOOK FOR and TO FIND that PROOF.

But, if someone ALREADY has a PRECONCEIVED idea about what some thing is, then they will only be LOOKING in a particular way for that particular THING. Meanwhile they will MISS and NOT SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things, which is ACTUALLY PASSING THEM BY.
So you will NOT provide NOR show proof for your claims. Then your treatment as just another generic nutjob is justified, you have no proof.
Here is A PRIME and PERFECT EXAMPLE of one 'trying to' "justify" their OBVIOUSLY Wrong behavior and treatment of "others".

This one ACTUALLY BELIEVES that if "another" does NOT JUMP and do what they WANT, then they have the "right" to mis/treat the "other", ANYWAY they WANT or see "fit".

Having the ability to 'reason' (out) absolutely ANY and/or EVERY thing, although is GREAT for being able to learn how to create and achieve ANY thing, was also becoming a HUGE DOWNFALL for human beings, themselves, in the days when this was written, as they were "justifying" ALL of their Wrong behaviors, as be "justifiable", without recognizing the downward spiral that they were heading from what was essentially Falsely "reasoned out" Truly Wrong "justifications" and "rationalizations".

As evidenced and proven above here.

This one:
BELIEVES and/or INSISTS that I have NO proof, for my claims.
ASSUMES and/or EXPECTS that I will NOT provide NOR show proof, for my claims. And so,
Therefore, JUMPS into the "justification/rationalization" that the mistreating of ANOTHER human being is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE and an ALL RIGHT behavior.

This BELIEVING, INSISTING, ASSUMING, and/or EXPECTING is HOW these human beings CONTINUALLY MISTREATED "others" for thousands upon thousands of years. And, it was only a relatively nothing amount of years earlier to when these people misbehaved like this one is SHOWING and REVEALING that there were even human beings who BELIEVED and INSISTED that they could OWN human being "slaves" and "treat" them ANY way that they "saw fit" and had "justified/rationalized" out.

The MISTREATMENT of "others" began from just about the first instance of coming into this 'world', with the continual mistreatment and abuse of "each other", and essentially "themselves", being carried out for thousands upon thousands of years, all depending on what 'culture/country' they were born into and brought up, and lived, in.
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am
This is your "stuff"... and your limitation.
My "limitation" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?
Focusing on what you see as wrong. Because that is not the whole picture. That is actually a very small picture.
OF COURSE it is ONLY A PART of the WHOLE and BIG Picture. I have TOLD you this BEFORE. And, to fix ANY thing, then one NEEDS to LOOK AT what IS WRONG, FIRST.

You just keep 'trying to' IGNORE what IS WRONG BECAUSE 'you' do NOT like to LOOK AT this Truth. You are the one DOING THE WRONG, so it is NOT just 'my stuff'.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am So it's a limitation. Get it?
And, just as EASILY, it can said that that is your limitation, which is ALSO NOT LOOKING AT the whole picture. So, now it can be claimed that this was just ANOTHER projection of yours.

Your limitation of focusing on what you see as wrong, which is actually only a very small picture, and NOT focusing on the whole picture, why you keep forgetting and/or ignoring the FACT that I have specifically INFORMED you the EXACTLY how Everything is NOW is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT and does NOT NEED CHANGING AT ALL.

Just like when one was informing "others" that the earth is actually NOT flat, or like when one was informing "others" that the sun actually does NOT revolve around the earth, or like when one was informing "others" that the Universe actually does NOT expand, NOR even begun.

Although what those ones were saying was thee ACTUAL Truth of things, and "others" were NOT listening and were NOT hearing what was ACTUALLY being said, absolutely NOTHING NEEDED to be CHANGED because this was EXACTLY how Everything was MEANT TO BE, or in other words, in PERFECT UNISON, at those given moments. At ANY given moment what is HAPPENING and OCCURRING is EXACTLY how Everything is PERFECTLY MEANT TO BE.

So, the way 'you', "lacewing", and your fellow human adult comrades, are living and mis/behaving the way you are now, in the days when this is being written, is, in a sense, ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. In relation to the WHOLE Picture, at that given snapshot "of time", (as it wrong called), is PERFECT. In that one is informing 'you' that 'you' are ALL abusing your OWN children, and, IF you Truly WANT the best for your OWN children, then you do what it takes to CHANGE for the better, for them.

Then you will come to REALIZE HOW and WHY 'you' ABUSE your OWN children, and with the WHY, then you can obtain the KNOW-HOW of HOW to PREVENT ALL children, from EVER being abused, forever more.

Now, you adults abusing children, or in other words DOING WRONG, in the days when this was written, was in PERFECT UNISON with the Universe, Itself, because just like ALL of the "other" preceding adults, before 'you', who BELIEVED that they KNOW BEST, like the sun revolves around the earth, when discovered that it was ACTUALLY 'them' who was Wrong, and that thee ACTUAL Truth of things IS ACTUALLY some thing DIFFERENT, then they could CHANGE their views and the way that they then LOOKED AT and SAW things, for the better. Which is what will HAPPEN to ALL of 'you', as well. But, when it is in relation to the well being of ALL children, in the creation of a Truly BETTER 'world' for ALL of them, then we NEED to, for a VERY SHORT WHILE, FOCUS on the WRONG that ALL of 'you', adults, do. Otherwise NOTHING will CHANGE, for the better, and things will stay roughly THE SAME. Which, at the current moment, these words are being written, is in a DOWNHILL SPIRAL to your OWN demise.

Now, if you can 'get it' THIS TIME. I am LOOKING AT and SEEING the WHOLE Picture, which, for your information, is FAR MORE REWARDING, BLISSFUL, and HEAVEN-LIKE than you could EVER IMAGINE, in the day when I wrote this. But to reach and achieve this way of life, we NEED to FOCUS on the WRONG that ALL adults do.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amYour Honest answer would be MUCH APPRECIATED here.
Great. There you have it.
THANK YOU. They are ALWAYS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Hopefully, now you 'get it' that I am NEVER just focusing on the WRONG adult human beings do, without EVER having the WHOLE Picture ALWAYS, IN SIGHT, as well?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 am You are seeing "wrong"... instead of seeing beyond that.
'you', "lacewing", SEE 'right'. Whereas, 'I', or ANY one "else" who does NOT SEE things as "lacewing" does, SEES "WRONG".
That's not what I was saying.
Okay, then what are you SAYING?

You did, after all, to me, SAY: You are seeing "wrong".

Are you saying that NEITHER 'you' nor any one "else" sees "wrong" and it is ONLY 'me' who sees "wrong"?

If you are NOT saying that, then that is how it SURELY LOOKS LIKE, to me.

Do you seriously not understand? No, it appears you don't. It seems so easy for you to distort what is being said.[/quote]

And, could the FACT be that it IS so easy for me to DISTORT what is being said, because of the ACTUAL WORDS used in what is being said?

After all, you did say: You are seeing "wrong", you also THEN added after ... "instead of seeing beyond 'that' ".

I am just WAITING to SEE what 'that' IS, FIRST, BEFORE I could GRASP what you WERE saying, EXACTLY.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am Any of us can see that things are "wrong" wherever we look. But if we are looking from a broader perspective, perhaps we can see how things are "right".
I have told you, on previous threads, that how things are on the broadest of perspectives is PERFECTLY "right".

But, continually REFUSING to LOOK AT and FOCUS on the Wrong that adults do, allows them to continue doing what they are, as though it is "right".

And, people do NOT CHANGE, for the better, if they think or BELIEVE that what they are doing is "right".

People only CHANGE if they KNOW and ACCEPT that what they are doing is "wrong", and WANT to CHANGE, for the better. Or, when they are they are told that they are going to die, because of what they were previously doing, and then WISHED they CHANGED, earlier.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am When you step back from the human drama... the human intoxication... and view from a place of more clarity and acceptance, perhaps you might see how everything is flowing quite magnificently, despite how it looks on the human level.
Have 'you' REALLY FORGOTTEN that we have DISCUSSED this, and/or have COME TO AN AGREEMENT on this, a few times ALREADY?

ABSOLUTELY Everything IS flowing QUITE MAGNIFICENTLY, 'in the scheme of things'. I have AGREED WITH THIS, PREVIOUSLY. However, for ALL children whilst BEING ABUSED, then that makes it a LITTLE BIT HARDER for them to SEE the ACTUAL MAGNIFICENCE FLOWING, do you AGREE?

Or, do you NOT agree with this?

Now, if you agree with this, then would you like to HELP ALL people, especially children, to SEE the indisputable ALWAYS FLOWING MAGNIFICENCE, as well?

If yes, then HOW can you do this?

If you do NOT YET EXACTLY, then what I have been proposing from the outset is that IF 'we' work together, peacefully and harmonious, on the SAME GOAL, then we CAN find out what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which is NEEDED to make things BETTER for Everyone, as One, and especially CHILDREN, who will be, OBVIOUSLY, the following generation of TEACHERS and GUIDERS.

Also, you talk about 'a place of more clarity and acceptance', now just to be CLEAR, is there MANY of these types of places, or would 'A place of clarity AND acceptance' be ONE in which EVERY one can SEE the SAME CLARITY and have the SAME ACCEPTANCE?

Surely, CLARITY and ACCEPTANCE would be found in A place of AGREEMENT, which would just NATURALLY involve CLARITY and ACCEPTANCE.

And, could this place just get narrower and narrower until it becomes just One Place, and where the things that are being AGREED WITH and ACCEPTED by EVERY one become thee ACTUAL Truth of things, as well as being A place where because EVERY one is AGREEING WITH and ACCEPTING OF "each other", then a way of life could start becoming Truly Peaceful and Harmonious. or is this NOT POSSIBLE?

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 am Also, what is 'that', which you CLAIM I am NOT "seeing beyond"?
Seeing things as wrong.
If only you KNEW my ACTUAL VIEWS, then you would NOT have said ANY thing like you have here.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amFurthermore, could it be A POSSIBILITY AT ALL in "lacewing's" 'world, and view and seeing of things, that I have ACTUALLY SEEN beyond what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE I have.
It is surely a possibility that you can. I don't know if you have. I'm only responding to your claims. If you have seen beyond them, it makes no sense that you keep repeating them, and distorting and projecting, as you do.
You say this like you do NOT repeat, do NOT distort, and do NOT project "yourself".

If you REALLY do NOT YET KNOW that I have SEEN beyond 'the wrong', then that would infer that you REALLY have NOT been reading what I have been saying, and meaning.

But maybe I have to make this part CLEAR. I do NOT talk about the Right adult human beings do, because it is ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY OBVIOUS that they do, The human species would have died out years ago if they did not. I also do NOT talk about the Right adult human beings do, because they continually do this "themselves", and because this takes the FOCUS of what NEEDS to CHANGED. As I said earlier, when people LOOK AT and FOCUS on ONLY what they do Right and good, then they FOOL themselves into BELIEVING that there is NOTHING that NEEDS CHANGING.

Also, I am one who does NOT LOOK AT ANY human being as being a "good" or a "bad" person. To me, EVERY adult human being does some "good" or right things and some "bad" or wrong things.

I also say EVERY adult does Wrong, while NO child can do Wrong. But this becomes self-explanatory later on, during the discussion. But first things, first.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am And now... I'll read no further in your response.
Okay.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am Your distortions are exhausting to wade through.
Could YOUR DISTORTIONS be exhausting for "others" to wade through ALSO? Or, is it ONLY MY DISTORTIONS, which ARE "exhausting to wade through"?
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am And the flood of your inaccuracies are just sad.
AGAIN, A CLAIM that there are inaccuracies, in "others" writings, but NEVER actually POINTING OUT NOR PROVIDING ANY of those ALLEGED inaccuracies, REALLY is SAYING NOTHING AT ALL. What this SHOWS, however, is just how OFTEN CLAIMS are made, but NEVER backed up with ANY thing substantial.

Also, your use of the 'exhaustive' word, the 'flood' word, the 'sad' word, and the 'wade through' words can be used just for an emotive appeal to POOR OLD "lacewing" HAS TO do just TOO MUCH WORK that that one could really do and handle.

Now, WHY are my, alleged, "inaccuracies", IF in fact that there are actually ANY, "just sad"?

"Sad" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Also, do NOT FORGET that you also have to PROVE that there are ACTUALLY "inaccuracies".
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am There seems to be no point in clarifying anything with you, as you seem intent on mangling it.
If this is what you BELIEVE and INSIST is true, then you can use this EXCUSE to "justify" and "rationalize" your reason WHY you will NOT CLARIFY things here.

Some, however, are saying that the ACTUAL REASON WHY you do NOT CLARIFY ANY thing with me is BECAUSE you ACTUALLY can NOT.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 am I guess I keep trying to give you more credit for understanding, than you appear to have... at the time when these things have been written. :lol:
Did you REALLY find this funny?

Considering the FACT that you BELIEVE that there seems to be NO point in clarifying ANY thing with me, then HOW you came to the conclusion you have here seems to be EXTREMELY ILLOGICAL.

How could you "keep trying to give me more credit for understanding", when it was YOU who STOPPED CLARIFYING ANY thing for me?

'Understanding' is obtained by "others" WHEN you CLARIFY things for them. In other words, WHEN you say and write some thing, and "others" ask you questions for CLARIFICATION, and you REFUSE to CLARIFY ANY thing for them, then HOW could they gain UNDERSTANDING, itself
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amThe Universe is expanding because red shift is the 'evidence' of this. While COMPLETELY and UTTERLY IGNORING the FACT that there is blue shift, which OBVIOUSLY MUST BE 'evidence' for the OPPOSITE, that is; a CONTRACTING Universe.
Here it is again Age, from two years ago:
uwot wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pmOff the top of my head, there are roughly 100 galaxies that show blue shift. They are either local, like Andromeda, and are being pulled together by gravity, or they are in the Virgo cluster, all of which is heading our way (if you buy the Doppler explanation)-part of the general turbulence of the universe, as far as we can tell. The other trillion or so all display redshift.
Have a look at the numbers: 100 blue shifted galaxies. 1 000 000 000 000 red shifted galaxies.
Did you ever blow bubbles? Did you watch them as they grew? Did you see the colours swirling? Imagine those different colours are galaxies. As they swirl, some move towards each other, and some move apart. Were they galaxies, some would be blue shifted and some red. But as you blow up the bubble, only the swirls in a small patch of the bubble get closer to each other; beyond that patch, all the swirls are moving apart.
You have done exactly what you accuse others of doing: you have taken a small piece of information, 'that blue shift exists'; assumed it contradicts red shift, and used It to support a belief you already hold. As you said:
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:19 amSee, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well.
Look in the mirror Age. What do you see?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:11 amThe Universe is expanding because red shift is the 'evidence' of this. While COMPLETELY and UTTERLY IGNORING the FACT that there is blue shift, which OBVIOUSLY MUST BE 'evidence' for the OPPOSITE, that is; a CONTRACTING Universe.
Here it is again Age, from two years ago:
uwot wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pmOff the top of my head, there are roughly 100 galaxies that show blue shift. They are either local, like Andromeda, and are being pulled together by gravity, or they are in the Virgo cluster, all of which is heading our way (if you buy the Doppler explanation)-part of the general turbulence of the universe, as far as we can tell. The other trillion or so all display redshift.
Have you REALLY NOT been able to progress ANY more further forward with your 'evidence', NOR been able to find ANY further other 'evidence', in the last two years?
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Have a look at the numbers: 100 blue shifted galaxies. 1 000 000 000 000 red shifted galaxies.
Okay. Looking at them.

Could these numbers mean that this part of the Universe behaves differently from the rest of the Universe? Or, is this just NOT a possibility?

And this is from the perspective of earth right?

Have you EVER wondered what the view is like from other planets in the Universe?

If no, then could roughly the same be seen, which could mean that there are about 100 blue shifted galaxies near EVERY planet in the WHOLE Universe?

Which could mean that ALL parts of the Universe are blue shifted or contracting.

Or, if you have wondered what the view is like form other planets in the Universe, what did you think about could be seen?

Also, these numbers fit in PERFECTLY with my explanation of things here.

Also, you will still NOT answer the clarifying question, that; IF red shift IS 'evidence' for expanding Universe, then what is blue shift 'evidence' for, EXACTLY?
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Did you ever blow bubbles?
Yes.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Did you watch them as they grew?
Sometimes.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Did you see the colours swirling?
Sometimes.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Imagine those different colours are galaxies.
Okay.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am As they swirl, some move towards each other, and some move apart.
Yes. That is what I have previous talked about.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Were they galaxies, some would be blue shifted and some red.
Exactly. This, if I recall correctly, is what I have previously informed you of.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am But as you blow up the bubble, only the swirls in a small patch of the bubble get closer to each other; beyond that patch, all the swirls are moving apart.
Not if they are moving in the direction of the 'you' faster than the rate of the expansion of the bubble.
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am You have done exactly what you accuse others of doing: you have taken a small piece of information, 'that blue shift exists'; assumed it contradicts red shift, and used It to support a belief you already hold.
LOL

I have NOT done ANY such thing.

I have ALLUDED to that if one WANTS to CLAIM that red shift is 'evidence' for expansion, then those same ones will HAVE TO ADMIT that blue shift is 'evidence' for contraction.

I do NOT have ANY belief here, regarding this.

I also do NOT even think the Universe is contracting, let alone suggested that ANYWHERE, let alone would have even said that ANYWHERE.

I wish you kept going with your blowing bubbles story, as this is sort of what I am going to use to PROOF what I CLAIM here, along with the rest of the other "stuff".
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am As you said:
Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:19 amSee, people will only SEE the things that THEY 'want to see', and so people will only LOOK FOR the 'PROOF' that THEY 'want to see', as well.
By repeating what I said here, Are you 'trying to' imply that I 'want to see' some particular thing?

If yes, then what is that 'particular thing', EXACTLY?
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Look in the mirror Age. What do you see?
A human body, and whatever else is behind that body within view of the mirror, a set of thoughts still learning how rearrange them in a way that they can be better communicated and better understood, oh, and a Being that is still NOT YET recognized NOR accepted for who It Truly IS.

Which is the EXACT SAME Being, by the way, that is within EVERY body.

Also, if 'you' were 'trying to' imply here that 'I' do what 'you', human beings, do here, then 'you' are sadly MISTAKEN.

But if you were NOT 'trying to' imply that here, then 'what', EXACTLY, were you 'trying to' imply?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:46 am Look in the mirror Age. What do you see?
Just out of curiosity, when you look in a mirror "uwot", what do you actually see?
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