What is philosophy?

For all things philosophical.

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Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:10 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:42 pmThe next step IS, you have ALREADY even admitted that the CLAIM that, "The objects are moving away from us", is just ONLY an 'hypothesis' anyway, and therefore is NOT even KNOWN to be true and correct AT ALL.

Therefore, what this means is, that all there is the data, of red-shift and blue-shift to go on, and ANY thing else is just an INTERPRETATION, which is what I have be EXPLAINING, but which was NOT BEING HEARD.
As I keep saying, this is not news to any competent scientist or philosopher.
LOL And here 'you' are the one who makes so much effort to write a comic book to EXPLAIN HOW and WHY the STORY that the Universe is expanding and began is the "best explanation".

LOL to 'me', that STORY is about one of the WORST ones that I have seen and heard by 'you', human beings. Especially considering the ACTUAL FACTS that have ALREADY been presented to you, in the days when this was written.
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:10 pm What you are not hearing is that your ideas are new. That's because they are not.
WHY bring up something new now?

WHY 'try to' DEFLECT now?

And, are those words the ones who Truly MEANT to say and write here?

If my ideas are new or the oldest ones in human history has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on ANY thing here.
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:10 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:42 pmNow, the reason WHY 'yours' and "others" INTERPRETATION led to red-shift infers 'objects are moving away from us', which then means 'the Universe is expanding' is BECAUSE 'you' and "others" had an underlying BELIEF that the Universe BEGAN.
Where do you suppose "an underlying BELIEF that the Universe BEGAN" came from?
From your predecessors TEACHINGS. Which, by the way, those TEACHINGS were just ANOTHER completely and utterly Wrong INTERPRETATION of the 'data' presented to 'you' ALL.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:20 pm
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:10 pmWhere do you suppose "an underlying BELIEF that the Universe BEGAN" came from?
From your predecessors TEACHINGS. Which, by the way, those TEACHINGS were just ANOTHER completely and utterly Wrong INTERPRETATION of the 'data' presented to 'you' ALL.
Can you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:30 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:20 pm
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:10 pmWhere do you suppose "an underlying BELIEF that the Universe BEGAN" came from?
From your predecessors TEACHINGS. Which, by the way, those TEACHINGS were just ANOTHER completely and utterly Wrong INTERPRETATION of the 'data' presented to 'you' ALL.
Can you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
YES, I CERTAINLY CAN.

I CAN DO BOTH.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:49 pm
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:30 pmCan you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
YES, I CERTAINLY CAN.

I CAN DO BOTH.
The stage is yours Age, go for it!
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:56 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:49 pm
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:30 pmCan you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
YES, I CERTAINLY CAN.

I CAN DO BOTH.
The stage is yours Age, go for it!
Go for 'what', EXACTLY?

Remember I said that words have FAR MORE POWER over people, then the peoples in the days when this was written FULLY REALIZE, YET?

You asked, " 'Can' I do something?" I answered Honestly thee ACTUAL CLARIFYING QUESTION posed to 'me'.

Now, if there is ANY thing more that you want to learn and/or know, then just ask CLARIFYING QUESTION/S.

Also, from the words ACTUALLY used, then it can be a VERY SIMPLE and EASY process to work out how OPEN or CLOSED one Truly IS. And, do NOT forget that I do NOT like to ASSUME ABSOLUTELY ANY thing.

Furthermore, you NEVER even actually CLARIFIED what the 'data' was, which was presented to 'you' ALL, even though I highlighted in single quotation marks.

SEE, to demonstrate, better, WHY your predecessors were wrong, and/or to present a better interpretation, then it helps if you ALREADY KNOW what the ACTUAL 'data' IS. But, by the way you worded your "clarifying" question here, you appear to have a BELIEF that I could NOT possibly do what you are asking 'me' if I could do it.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:14 pmGo for 'what', EXACTLY?
Choose from the following:
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:30 pmCan you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:23 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:14 pmGo for 'what', EXACTLY?
Choose from the following:
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:30 pmCan you either demonstrate why our predecessors were wrong, or present a better interpretation?
Okay.

If you just used the 'will you' words instead of the 'can you' words, then this speeds the process up, CONSIDERABLY.

Your predecessors were wrong to TEACH you that the Universe began, because, by definition, the 'Universe' could NEVER even begin, NOR even expand.

And, the BEST interpretation is the One that aligns PERFECTLY with thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things', which in this case regarding thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, IS - the Universe is infinite, spatially, and eternal, temporally. And could NOT be ANY other way.

But you may define the word 'Universe' DIFFERENTLY and so this would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you. You, also, may BELIEVE otherwise, which also means that 'that' would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you, too.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pmBut you may define the word 'Universe' DIFFERENTLY and so this would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you. You, also, may BELIEVE otherwise, which also means that 'that' would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you, too.
According to a simple interpretation of cosmic red-shift, the bubble of visible matter is growing. That 'visible universe' is not necessarily, and indeed unlikely to be the entire 'universe'. It could be that the visible universe is one small pocket of a genuinely spatially and temporally infinite universe, but you cannot prove that is so by definition. What meaning we attach to words makes no difference to what is the case.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pmBut you may define the word 'Universe' DIFFERENTLY and so this would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you. You, also, may BELIEVE otherwise, which also means that 'that' would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you, too.
According to a simple interpretation of cosmic red-shift, the bubble of visible matter is growingr.
We KNOW this 'interpretation', especially considering the fact that you keep reminding us of this 'interpretation', and keep expressing it as though this interpretation is the "best one".

However, what you and "others" have failed to do is to take into consideration the OTHER 'interpretations' and 'explanations'.

'You' consider that simple explanation is the "best one" so this in turn stops and prevents 'you' from seeking out and looking at the other interpretations, which are obviously FAR BETTER and FAR MORE ACCURATE than that, so called, "simple interpretation".
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm That 'visible universe' is not necessarily, and indeed unlikely to be the entire 'universe'.
We ALREADY KNOW this OBVIOUS IRREFUTABLE FACT.
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm
It could be that the visible universe is one small pocket of a genuinely spatially and temporally infinite universe, but you cannot prove that is so by definition.
Contrary to your BELIEF, yes I can.

AND, I can also prove 'that' the Universe is spatially infinite and temporally eternal, and did NOT begin NOR is expanding, through and by a 'logically reasoned' discussion, which, in turn, leads back to what the word 'Universe' once meant anyway.

But what is blatantly clear and obvious now is that that BELIEF of yours here is the very 'thing', which is what is STOPPING and PREVENTING you from becoming any the wiser.
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm What meaning we attach to words makes no difference to what is the case.
LOL Okay, if you BELIEVE SO.

But, if this is what you now BELIEVE is true, then this makes proving what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, regarding thee Universe, Itself, even far more simpler and easier.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pmBut you may define the word 'Universe' DIFFERENTLY and so this would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you. You, also, may BELIEVE otherwise, which also means that 'that' would OBVIOUSLY appear VERY ABSURD and VERY RIDICULOUS, to you, too.
According to a simple interpretation of cosmic red-shift, the bubble of visible matter is growing.
By the way that 'simple interpretation' can be SO EASILY PROVEN Wrong, and SO SIMPLY as well.

But again, your Honesty is NEEDED for this to occur.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:01 am
uwot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:00 pm What meaning we attach to words makes no difference to what is the case.
LOL Okay, if you BELIEVE SO.

But, if this is what you now BELIEVE is true, then this makes proving what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, regarding thee Universe, Itself, even far more simpler and easier.
Then will you do so?
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Gotta say Age, this claim of yours:
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pmIf you just used the 'will you' words instead of the 'can you' words, then this speeds the process up, CONSIDERABLY.
rings a bit hollow, unless of course you mean that asking you directly to support your beliefs will quickly be followed by a tacit admission that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:03 am Gotta say Age, this claim of yours:
Age wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pmIf you just used the 'will you' words instead of the 'can you' words, then this speeds the process up, CONSIDERABLY.
rings a bit hollow, unless of course you mean that asking you directly to support your beliefs will quickly be followed by a tacit admission that you have no idea what you are talking about.
WHAT IS IT WITH 'YOU', HUMAN BEINGS?

I NEITHER believe NOR disbelieve ANY thing.

WHY oh WHY can 'you', "uwot", NOT comprehend and understand this FACT?

There is absolutely NO USE asking me directly NOR indirectly, to support "my beliefs" BECAUSE I have NO BELIEFS.

Now, if ANY one of you ask me DIRECTLY to support my CLAIMS, then I WILL. It REALLY is this SIMPLE, and EASY.

Until then I just AWAIT, with PATIENCE.

Oh, and by the way, ONCE AGAIN your ASSUMPTION here is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY Wrong, AGAIN.

If you REALLY WANT me to support my claim/s here, then just provide the ACTUAL CLAIM, and then just ask me to support it.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:56 amIf you REALLY WANT me to support my claim/s here, then just provide the ACTUAL CLAIM, and then just ask me to support it.
Okie-dokie. Here's a claim:
Age wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:01 am... I can also prove 'that' the Universe is spatially infinite and temporally eternal, and did NOT begin NOR is expanding, through and by a 'logically reasoned' discussion, which, in turn, leads back to what the word 'Universe' once meant anyway.
Will you support it?
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Sculptor
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:56 amIf you REALLY WANT me to support my claim/s here, then just provide the ACTUAL CLAIM, and then just ask me to support it... I can also prove 'that' the Universe is spatially infinite and temporally eternal, and did NOT begin NOR is expanding, through and by a 'logically reasoned' discussion, which, in turn, leads back to what the word 'Universe' once meant anyway.
This claim is inherently unsupportable since no evidence could be brought to bear to establish that claim.
As it is, all the evidence seem to point the other way.

Simply this - if the universe were of infinite size and has existed forever then light travelling from the nearest and the most distant (infinite distance) would have already reached earth and would eternally continue to do so.
In such a universe the entire "night" sky would be brighter than the sun, as there would be no gaps between the stars.
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