Past, PRESENT--future?

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surreptitious57
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Time and Space are mental concepts
Sometimes I think this as well but I am never absolutely certain
The Universe is too complicated for my tiny mind to understand

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:59 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm
Age wrote:
To me the NOW exists eternally so that could be seen in a sense as timelessness
Yes it could but change occurs within the eternal NOW and that comes through motion which is measured in time
Is motion actually measured in 'time', as though time is some actually thing, or is motion measured in a thing that we just call 'time'?

So, is time an actual thing, like motion and change are actual things? Or, is time just the name we use when defining differences in motion and change?

We use measurements to be aware of differences in the changes, which happen through motion, but, to me, these measurements are just known as 'time'. To me, the word 'time' is just the word used in relation to measurements.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm
Maybe time is just a construct that has been created in order for human beings to regulate the world they live in
So it only exists as a subjective concept rather than as an objective phenomenon but how true this is I cannot say
After the misconceptions of what 'time' actually IS, are understood and realized, then what the actual Truth IS can be said.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm
The best thing is to keep an open mind and so avoid making any assumptions
I think time exists but I cannot be absolutely certain and probably never will
I need to study it more to see if I can understand it better than I currently do
To me, change and motion exist, until some one comes forward with evidence they do not, and 'time' is just a word used in relation to when measurements of change, through motion, are being made.
Last edited by Age on Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

surreptitious57
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:11 am

Age wrote:
Is motion actually measured in time as though time is some actually thing or is motion measured in a thing that we just call time
Motion is measured in both units of time and space which is the temporal and spatial distances between any two points
Because of their relationship to each other space and time have been combined to create spacetime
I think space and time both exist because the Universe is not static but in a constant state of motion
While I cannot be absolutely certain that is what I think is most likely to be true at this point in time

surreptitious57
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:27 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
So is time an actual thing like motion and change are actual things ?
Or is time just the name we use when defining differences in motion and change ?
This is not my quote so I think its one of yours but its not from the post you quoted

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:49 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:27 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
So is time an actual thing like motion and change are actual things ?
Or is time just the name we use when defining differences in motion and change ?
This is not my quote so I think its one of yours but its not from the post you quoted
That was my mistake. I fixed it up already.

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:02 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:11 am
Age wrote:
Is motion actually measured in time as though time is some actually thing or is motion measured in a thing that we just call time
Motion is measured in both units of time and space which is the temporal and spatial distances between any two points
Yes motion is measured is units.

The measuring of distances between perceived separate, different events is measured in the units of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, and light years, and it is just this measuring, which is called and is known as 'time'. This is a human created invention and construct, measured by the use of the human created and constructed tools, which are called clocks and watches. But there is no physical thing as 'time', itself, and as such 'time' is just a mental concept only.

The measuring of distances between perceived separate, different objects is measured in units of inches/millimeters, yards/meters, miles/kilometers, light years, and it is just this measuring, which is called and is known as 'space'. This is a human created invention and construct, measured by the use of the human created and constructed tools, which are called rulers, tapes, yard/meter sticks, odometers, et cetera. But there is no physical thing as 'space', itself, as such 'space' is just a mental concept only.

Although this appears counter-intuitive, there is actually no "space" just like there is actually no "time". Comprehending how there could actually be no "space" may be a bit harder to understand.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:11 am
Because of their relationship to each other space and time have been combined to create spacetime
But, to you, what is 'spacetime' exactly?

Because of the relationship of EVERY thing to each other EVERY thing have been combined to create (the word) Everything, (or just thee Universe, Itself). But this is off topic.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:11 am
I think space and time both exist because the Universe is not static but in a constant state of motion
But the Universe can still be very easily in a constant state of motion, without the words 'space' nor 'time' existing. The Universe will just carry on the way that It is HERE NOW.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:11 am
While I cannot be absolutely certain that is what I think is most likely to be true at this point in time
If there is a 'point in time', then what is 'time', to you, exactly?

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:29 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Time and Space are mental concepts
Sometimes I think this as well but I am never absolutely certain
The Universe is too complicated for my tiny mind to understand
Really the Universe, Itself, is VERY SIMPLE.

It is just human beings, themselves, who complicate things, and make things hard to understand.

The Universe is just made up of two very basic and very simple fundamental things; some thing AND no thing, or, something AND nothing. The two co-exist ALWAYS. Always together in constant-change. Evolving IN Creation, always.

The 'nothing' part of the Universe provides the 'something' part of the Universe the ability to move about FREELY, which allows the Universe to evolve into the pre DETERMINED Self-Aware and Conscious Being that It is ALWAYS going to BE-COME, or come-to-Be.

commonsense
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by commonsense » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:15 pm

Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:23 pm
It's true that the future doesn't exist, but our present and past moments influence which path to walk down in the now now now.
Well said.

I would like to revisit the question that was asked of Richard earlier. I am rephrasing the question slightly to emphasize the meaning I found in it:

If you, Richard or anyone else, are a person who believes the future never arrives, how do you reconcile your wearing a seatbelt with your own belief that the future never arrives?

Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:34 pm

commonsense wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:15 pm
Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:23 pm
It's true that the future doesn't exist, but our present and past moments influence which path to walk down in the now now now.
Well said.

I would like to revisit the question that was asked of Richard earlier. I am rephrasing the question slightly to emphasize the meaning I found in it:

If you, Richard or anyone else, are a person who believes the future never arrives, how do you reconcile your wearing a seatbelt with your own belief that the future never arrives?
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my position, Commonsense. First of all, I am NOT a person who believes that the future never arrives. What I am saying is that the future is never knowable. Wearing a seatbelt is an example of prudent behaviour. As in many instances of everyday life, we act now in the present to avert possible danger, which might or might not happen in the unknowable future.

commonsense
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by commonsense » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
This is written to unify my statements and to add a couple of sentences. "There is a crucial division between the past and present vs. future. Reality happens or has happened- it does not exist in the future. If it has not yet happened, it is not real, other than as a concept. This is also true of time. Time always starts now. Future time only exists as a concept. Everything happens now- it is always now. This includes time, which always starts and happens now. Being conscious is being here now. Time passing is dynamic moments of now, now, now, etc.

The future, meanwhile, NEVER arrives."
I thought you were saying at one time that the future now cannot be the present now, or the past now for that matter. What convinced you to change your mind?

Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:38 pm

commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:04 pm
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
This is written to unify my statements and to add a couple of sentences. "There is a crucial division between the past and present vs. future. Reality happens or has happened- it does not exist in the future. If it has not yet happened, it is not real, other than as a concept. This is also true of time. Time always starts now. Future time only exists as a concept. Everything happens now- it is always now. This includes time, which always starts and happens now. Being conscious is being here now. Time passing is dynamic moments of now, now, now, etc.

The future, meanwhile, NEVER arrives."
I thought you were saying at one time that the future now cannot be the present now, or the past now for that matter. What convinced you to change your mind?
I never said that.

surreptitious57
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:36 pm

Age wrote:
Really the Universe is VERY SIMPLE

It is just human beings themselves who complicate things and make things hard to understand

The Universe is just made up of two very basic and very simple fundamental things

The nothing part of the Universe provides the something part of the Universe the ability to move about FREELY which allows the
Universe to evolve into the pre DETERMINED Self Aware and Conscious Being that It is ALWAYS going to BE COME or come to Be
I think there is much more to the Universe than simply objects and the space that exists between them
I do not know if there is pre determinism with regard to the Universe but I am very sceptical about this

I do know that it is too complex for me to understand on any fundamental level as my knowledge of it is very limited
The sheer quantity of knowledge alone would be impossible to process even if it was all relatively easy to understand

jayjacobus
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by jayjacobus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:01 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:02 am
If there is a 'point in time', then what is 'time', to you, exactly?
Time is defined as a series of states. If there is only one state, then there is no time because everything is frozen.

Now is only the current state (or a sequence of deduced states that give now a duration).

A point in time is either a past state (which is remembered), a future state (which is expected) or the present state (which is perceived).

The memory exists now and the expectation exists now but no past state exists now nor does any future state exist now. Only the present state exists now but our brain extends our perception over a sequence of states making now appear to have a duration (of unknown length).

Without memory time would not be perceived. We would be stuck in the present without a clue as to how to deal with the present.

If you are on a boat, the instantaneous position is now, the evidence of the past is in the wake and the evidence of the future is in the heading.

Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:52 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:19 pm
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:47 am
Wearing a seatbelt is an example of prudent behavior. In other words, acting now(reality) to avert possible danger, which might or might not occur(future).
OK, but if the future isn't real why are you worried about future danger?
Once again, I did not say the future is unreal. I said that the future is unknowable because it has not yet become real(i.e.present).

Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:10 pm

Maybe I can put this better. The future is not real because it has not yet happened. Reality occurs and begins when it happens. The future is not real because it has not yet happened. Of course I accept that the future is a valid concept of things to come, but it is not yet reality. I hope that I have made this clearer.

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