DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

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surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Age wrote:
Do you KNOW what the purpose is for things like animals including human beings
I do know what the purpose for human beings is beyond possibly propogation but what do you say it is
What is the purpose of our existence and also what is the meaning of our existence [ if there be one ]

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:52 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm
Age wrote:
Do you KNOW what the purpose is for things like animals including human beings
I do know what the purpose for human beings is beyond possibly propogation but what do you say it is
What do you say is the purpose for human beings?

To me, the purpose for human beings is to teach and learn.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm
What is the purpose of our existence and also what is the meaning of our existence [ if there be one ]
The same purpose as above.

The meaning of 'our' existence is to live and be alive.

What do you say is the meaning of our existence, and how are you defining the word 'our' here?

surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Age wrote:
If the animal struggles and tries to get away then that is a pretty good sign enough evidence
and sufficient proof that it does NOT want to be killed
I meant instinctively not demonstrably as in you cannot know what an animal thinks about this
We do not even know what other human beings are thinking and so its even moreso for animals

surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 pm

Age wrote:
What do you say is the meaning of our existence and how are you defining the word our here
I think its a loaded question and that there is no such thing as meaning in an objective sense
So there is no meaning to it as such but we can give meaning to our own individual existence

Nick_A
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Nick_A » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:09 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:42 pm
What is the purpose of our existence and also what is the meaning of our existence [ if there be one ]
Age replied
The same purpose as above.

The meaning of 'our' existence is to live and be alive.

What do you say is the meaning of our existence, and how are you defining the word 'our' here?
My guess for what it’s worth is that the next great advance in human psychology which will further appreciation for the complimentary relationship of science and religion will be what frees the psych from the belief that we are the center of meaning and all objective meaning and purpose revolves around us. People I read now know it so even though it is a minority view there is enough of a growing influence to offer hope for a rational future regardless of the resistance and ridicule which will be directed at them

The same personality types which ridiculed the idea that the world was round will also resist and ridicule the idea of a conscious universe within which humanity has its potential conscious purpose. We live in extraordinary times.

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Sculptor
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Sculptor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:41 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:26 pm
What say you?
It can never be better or worse to be not.
It is just a bad question; meaningless.

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henry quirk
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"It is just a bad question; meaningless."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:48 pm

You hear that, Dontaskme?

Sculptor doesn't like your question.

Do you care as little as I do?

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:08 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:27 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:11 am

The fact is a person is born and is equipped with various faculties to optimize one's well being.

Since all humans has the mental faculties to deal with the problems of life, all humans should be exposed and educated to the effective strategies to deal with the problem of life.
Here is one technique among many;

Buddha's 4NT-8FP -A Life Problem Solving Technique
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... P#p2516029

Great, so according to you, it's a fact that a person is BORN and is equipped with various faculties to optimize one's well being. So it's ok then, no need for you to rescue anyone from their OWN deluded mind-sets then is there?

Except you have to interfere with other peoples mind-sets by judging them, you constantly slam islamic belief structures, as if it's any of your business anyway. Stupid hypocrite!!

There's no need for you to talk incessantly about the islamist religious problems that are according to you deluded, when it's none of your business how those islamic people choose to live their lives, whether those lives is believing in a god called Allah. Also, if all those non-believers don't believe then they will be killed without mercy is the islamic mind-set, then who cares? since all those people are already BORN and equipped with the mental faculties to deal with the problems of life anyway, so then why should how they choose to live their lives be any of your business?
Why stick your big fat know it all rude crass beak into their affairs that is none of your concern?

Does their religious ideologies depress you, do they cause you misery and suffering, and anxiety, do they mentally disturb you? do they make you mentally sick? or are you just jolly well ok because you are now the all knowing shining Buddha who adheres to Buddha principles applying them to your life. A life where I am now so happy, happy, joy, joy, forever and ever, problem permanently solved AMEN!

Except it isn't is it, the problem seems to be still running around inside your busy little body mind like some out of control virus that just refuses to be cured, as if it's almost like you enjoy getting off on your constant desire to judge other people about the way they choose to live their life, and what they choose to believe in.
As I had advised, you should consult a psychiatrist to medicate your illness of depersonalization disorder.
  • Depersonalization can consist of a detachment within the self, regarding one's mind or body, or being a detached observer of oneself.[1] Subjects feel they have changed and that the world has become vague, dreamlike, less real, lacking in significance or being outside reality while looking in. It can be a disturbing experience.[citation needed] Chronic depersonalization refers to depersonalization-derealization disorder, which is classified by the DSM-5 as a dissociative disorder.
Note in Buddhism there is 'anatta'
  • In Buddhism, the term anattā refers to the doctrine of "non-self", that there is no unchanging, permanent self, soul or essence in living beings.
The pragmatic approach is to apply the above concept optimally within the appropriate circumstances, not blindly, compulsively and obsessively like in the case of a dispersonalization disorder which has infected your mind.

Islam??
The terrible evil and violent acts committed by SOME islamists as influenced by the ideology of Islam are so glaringly and obvious, as such warrant severe criticisms.
Do you want them to shaft an iron spike ball up your 'you know where' then you will only show concern?

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:31 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm
Age wrote:
Do you KNOW what the purpose is for things like animals including human beings
I do know what the purpose for human beings is beyond possibly propogation but what do you say it is
What is the purpose of our existence and also what is the meaning of our existence [ if there be one ]
As with most animals, from empirical facts of our DNA, biological structures and primal instincts [maternal, paternal, tribal, etc.], the fundamental programmed purpose of human beings is to produce the next generation.
As per the Normal Distribution, there will always be a minimal percentile that do not conform to that purpose. But nature works on the basis of large numbers to get the expected results.

The normal [majority] human being are programmed and compelled to seek sexual release or gratification, else there is pains or discomfort. The majority will be driven along the sexual path and the next generation will be produced.

Since the drives to sex and reproduction are inherent, instinctual, thus it is unavoidable that life will be produced as assured by the principles of large numbers.

It is obvious there is an increasing trend of humans countering nature's inherent purpose with contraception methods and devices. But there are 7+ billion of humans on Earth, thus there will be still sufficient numbers to serve nature's purpose.

I do not believe there is any other purpose and meaning for human life other than procreation and producing the next generation.

All humans are endowed with the algorithm of pleasure and pain. In the absence of no specific mental meaning, the most optimal is to make life as meaningful [with evolved reason and wisdom] as possible by balancing pleasure & pain and other variables.

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:28 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:08 am
The pragmatic approach is to apply the above concept optimally within the appropriate circumstances, not blindly, compulsively and obsessively like in the case of a dispersonalization disorder which has infected your mind.
Thanks for the advice, but quite frankly, if I have a mind as you like to assume I do then what I choose to create with it is my business. What I do with my set of lego bricks is for me to decide upon, so mind you keep your own mind in order before indoctrinating others with what you think they should do with theirs.

In your futile attempt to be all omniscient, I really think you should be more concerned with your own inner doctor that may be able to advice you on how to stop believing you can read other peoples minds, maybe you could do it today, before it turns into another bad habit, your own inner doctor would probably inform you to drop your grandiose delusions of what you think is going on outside of your own mind like a bad habit, but you have to listen carefully to it's advice. You wouldn't want this problem to grow any bigger and be just another human addictive behavior that obviously still needs a lot of working on, good luck. :evil:

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Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 pm
Age wrote:
If the animal struggles and tries to get away then that is a pretty good sign enough evidence
and sufficient proof that it does NOT want to be killed
I meant instinctively not demonstrably as in you cannot know what an animal thinks about this
If you do not know instinctively that if an animal wants to live or not, then so be it. But just because you do not know, then please do not transfer what you can or can not do onto me.

I may not know what a non-human animal is actually "thinking" about 'this', but I KNOW ALL animals usually 'want' to live. Human animals, however, can tend to look at life and living negatively and so sometimes do not want to keep living, which you are obviously well aware of already.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 pm
We do not even know what other human beings are thinking and so its even moreso for animals
But it is very easy to know what "other" human beings are thinking. If 'you' are actually right though is another matter, which can only be confirmed through clarifying.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:45 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 pm
Age wrote:
What do you say is the meaning of our existence and how are you defining the word our here
I think its a loaded question and that there is no such thing as meaning in an objective sense
Okay and fair enough.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 pm
[So there is no meaning to it as such but we can give meaning to our own individual existence
Okay.

Do you give any meaning to your own individual existence?

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:08 am

Islam??
The terrible evil and violent acts committed by SOME islamists as influenced by the ideology of Islam are so glaringly and obvious, as such warrant severe criticisms.
Do you want them to shaft an iron spike ball up your 'you know where' then you will only show concern?
Like I've mentioned to you before. If SOME people desire to live in a world where barbaric killing sprees of their own kind is a normal and acceptable behavior, a world where humans are capable of intently and deliberately shafting iron spike balls up one's 'you know where' just because those innocent victims just happen to have a different view of reality to their view, then who in their right mind would want to live in a fucked up world like that anyway?

Nothing can stop the actions of another from doing what they want to do to other humans. Only they themselves can change for the better. As for me, I don't care about how other people live thier lives as long as they leave the way I live my life alone. I wouldn't dream of interfering with islamic traditions or any other way of life lived by whom ever, it's none of my business anyway.

If I was blown to bloody pieces in a terrorist attack, then what can I do about that? .. they'd be doing me a favor by killing me as far as I'm concerned.

The thought of being taken out of such a flawed hell hole of a place is actually quite appealing to me. Meanwhile, the wishful hope of SOME humans ever learning how to be more caring, hospitable, loving, civilised and moral is in my opinion a long way off, and probably won't happen any time soon within this infinity. The dead ones are the lucky ones. RIP and Fangs :twisted: for the memory! :D

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:45 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:29 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:08 am

Islam??
The terrible evil and violent acts committed by SOME islamists as influenced by the ideology of Islam are so glaringly and obvious, as such warrant severe criticisms.
Do you want them to shaft an iron spike ball up your 'you know where' then you will only show concern?
Like I've mentioned to you before. If SOME people desire to live in a world where barbaric killing sprees of their own kind is a normal and acceptable behavior, a world where humans are capable of intently and deliberately shafting iron spike balls up one's 'you know where' just because those innocent victims just happen to have a different view of reality to their view, then who in their right mind would want to live in a fucked up world like that anyway?

Nothing can stop the actions of another from doing what they want to do to other humans. Only they themselves can change for the better. As for me, I don't care about how other people live thier lives as long as they leave the way I live my life alone. I wouldn't dream of interfering with islamic traditions or any other way of life lived by whom ever, it's none of my business anyway.

If I was blown to bloody pieces in a terrorist attack, then what can I do about that? .. they'd be doing me a favor by killing me as far as I'm concerned.

The thought of being taken out of such a flawed hell hole of a place is actually quite appealing to me. Meanwhile, the wishful hope of SOME humans ever learning how to be more caring, hospitable, loving, civilised and moral is in my opinion a long way off, and probably won't happen any time soon within this infinity. The dead ones are the lucky ones. RIP and Fangs :twisted: for the memory! :D
As I had advised, you must consult a psychiatrist to deal with your depersonalization disorder.

In addition, your mirror neurons in the brain are not functioning well thus you are VERY selfish with a total absence of empathy and compassionate for the sufferings of other human beings and living things. You simply lack an effective working moral compass.
  • In addition, Iacoboni has argued that mirror neurons are the neural basis of the human capacity for emotions such as empathy.
    -wiki
Whatever progress expected for the individual[s] and humanity will take a long time, some hundreds or thousands of years, but what is critical the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step.
Example there had been sufferings by slaves since thousands of years and human groups have been attempting to abolish slavery. It has taken thousands of years and now we have progressed to all recognized nations abolishing chattel slavery on a legal basis. There is still a long way to go, but points is there was the first step of a long journey.

Thus for those who care for others, we must acknowledge, identify and discuss the problems and strive to find solutions that will benefit all other human beings.

What you are behaving is very selfish [no-self] and expecting others to be selfish along with you, thus ignoring the sufferings of others - all because of your mental illness of depersonalization disorder.
You may get followers or those who agree with you but it because they too are suffering the same mental illness of depersonalization disorder but the rest of the majority will not buy your snake oil, because it is so stupid.

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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:55 am

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:19 pm
“The supernatural greatness of Christianity lies in the fact that it does not seek a supernatural remedy for suffering but a supernatural use for it.”
― Simone Weil
A supernatural use for suffering would be to create more of it, else DIE, but have you noticed, no one wants to die?

Human, not-supernatural quotes are full of BS, wishful fanciful flowery thinking at best where flogging dead horses seems to win the race.
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:19 pm
We can curse out the results of our personality that lives our life for us but do we have to destroy our essence and this kernel of life which has the potential to evolve and become a conscious part of universal meaning and purpose? Can we make conscious use of suffering rather than avoiding it?
Well, one can negate all things bar source itself, so no worries about offsetting the natural equilibrium of infinite sourceless source. On the other hand that which arises as 'sourced' must therefore succumb to it's ultimate fall.

Suffering arising here or not, there is no reason, requirement, necessity or purpose to it whatsoever, it's just what life for the sentient being does/is.

If human consciousness wanted to evolve for the better, then it will when life evolves it to do so and not one second before, it's got an eternity to get it right, not that it's ever wrong. The fact that questions apparently arise here in the human mind, means that every question is as valid and reasonable as any other. What has value for one has no value for another, so be it.


Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:19 pm
I believe we can but it requires the second birth; a concept largely perverted in culture today. So like the lemmings humanity will largely just follow the path of self destruction.
The second birth is death. Life is suffering full stop. If life as a human sentient creature wants to self-destruct, then that is just what life wants to do, and what's wrong with that? what's the alternative? ...oh I know, we'll just keep on learning to love our suffering because it's really really good for us to suffer.. so you better surrender now, you really have to learn to be a good little girl and boy, or santa won't bring you any toys, so you either surrender now and learn what's good for you, or you can just continue to act like a little spoilt wayward imp. Listen, I'm your higher self speaking, if you don't know what's good for you, what will make you even stronger.....then fuck off, be gone and go your own way, I'm finished with you, my road to hell was always paved with good intentions, but it's your life, live it how you want to live it.

Yeah right, what a load of old crock. We love to suffer full stop, if we didn't we'd stop suffering. We wouldn't even be here in the first place if it hadn't have been for that huge evil bully boulder asteroid that blew half the earth into a seething fire of death and destruction, without one iota of care for those poor dinasaurs well being. And now look what replaced them. This Bullshitting human mind that loves to tell fables and stories about the world, and of tales about surrending to a higher power, that would never have been heard at all if not for those poor dinasaurs and their self-less sacrifce.



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