New to Philosophy Now

[JackHamiltonJames]

Hi All,
Greetings Philosophers,
Recent subscriber to Philosophy Now, very much enjoying the magazine, esp the fact that the articles seem to be written by lecturers and students around the world. I am completing a Master's degree in Philosophy because i value all considerations of this reality, and try to remain as objective as possible. This year I have focused on the philosophy of space and time under Prof Peter Forrest at UNE, but am currently messing around with some continental philosophy. Not a big fan of God, but I am a fan of people who believe in God, or for that matter people who believe in anything absolutely, because that is the opposite to how i operate, i dont think i have ever made my mind up on anything, each moment brings a new idea and experience to be considered, so i find it very difficult to bring anything that seemed certain before into that new moment.

On a different note my sister, a fashion designer, recently posted this commment on her facebook page, i believe to have a go at my love of philosophy. “The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced.” - Aart Van Der Leeuw. Its annoying the hell out of me and would appreicate a defence?

Kind Regards,

Jack

[Psychonaut]

It cannot be both?

[Richard Baron]

On a different note my sister, a fashion designer, recently posted this commment on her facebook page, i believe to have a go at my love of philosophy. “The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced.” - Aart Van Der Leeuw. Its annoying the hell out of me and would appreicate a defence?

Hello Jack

If what Aart Van Der Leeuw says is correct, that would suggest (although not necessitate) that the view he expresses is itself not to be defended by logical argument. It would be a view you would either get or not get.

If you enjoy torturing yourself with such thoughts, I recommend the more mystical parts of Wittgenstein's Tractatus, especially 5.6 to 5.641 and 6.4 to 7.

[nameless]

“The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced.” - Aart Van Der Leeuw. Its annoying the hell out of me and would appreicate a defence?

"All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense." -Robert Anton Wilson

The First Law of Soul Dynamics;
"For every Conscious Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Conscious Perspective!" - Book of Fudd (4:20)

(For every website/expert... there is an equal and opposite website/expert...!)

Perhaps it's just sour grapes? Maybe Mr. Van Der Leeuw has no ability to critically, thoughtfully, examine life, so he 'enjoys' mysteries as much as those capable of critical thought enjoy 'understanding' those mysteries?

[JackHamiltonJames]

Excellent responses, all put to use, thankyou.

Jack

[duszek]

Before critisizing and getting annoyed I like to try to understand the point of view in question.
Here: instead of examining life in an ivory tower we should grasp it intuitively like a savage in the jungle. We would then know what life is all about: survival of the fittest, anxieties, hunger, thirst, rage, ...
But is it a mystery to anyone ?

On the other hand, someone said (but who was it ?) that an unexamined life is not worth living.

[Richard Baron]

On the other hand, someone said (but who was it ?) that an unexamined life is not worth living.

Plato attributes this to Socrates, Apology 38a.

[nameless]

On the other hand, someone said (but who was it ?) that an unexamined life is not worth living.

What a nasty, egotistical, judgemental thing to say!
(Not you, duszek, I refer to Platocrates, of course..)
There are brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers who have no interest or, perhaps, no capacity to 'examine' much at all, and rather than compassion or empathy or loving them for who they are, their lives are 'judged' not worth living?!?!
What egoic bumperstickerish insanity!
Like a rotten peanut, it looks good on the outside but is rotten crap within!

[duszek]

Let me defend good old Plato a little bit.

If a farmer, while ploughing for hours, asks himself: what do I live for ?
And answers: I want to have children and grand-children and retire with enough means to lead a secure life and to smoke a pipe every evening, then he has examined his life, has he not ?
You do not have to get a degree in Oxford in order to examine your life.

Am I too simple-minded ?

[nameless]

Let me defend good old Plato a little bit.

If a farmer, while ploughing for hours, asks himself: what do I live for ?
And answers: I want to have children and grand-children and retire with enough means to lead a secure life and to smoke a pipe every evening, then he has examined his life, has he not ?

Yes, to a certain extent (quite 'superficial') he has examined his life.

You do not have to get a degree in Oxford in order to examine your life.

True enough, but you have not refuted what I wrote, but simply pointed out that there are people who examine their lives (to one extent or another).
There are also those who do not, as implied by Platocrates' egoic statement.

Am I too simple-minded ?

For what?
*__-

[duszek]

It is not a necessary implication.
He also might have meant that everyone examines his life, more or less, but some people consider it a waste of time. He wanted encourage everyone to examine.

[nameless]

It is not a necessary implication.

In saying that "an unexamined life is not worth living" implies that there are unexamined lives not worth living. You are correct in that it is not always perceived as an implication by all Perspectives, the same problem with his statement.

He also might have meant that everyone examines his life, more or less, but some people consider it a waste of time. He wanted encourage everyone to examine.

Of course there are contexts within which his words are meaningful. There are other contexts, such as that which I have offered, in which they are not, but unless those (meaningful) contexts are offered with his 'bumpersticker', it comes off as some sort of 'Universal Truth', which it ain't, by his erroneous use of 'is' (poor language).
Perhaps it finds more meaning as a metaphor, rather than implying that those who don't examine their lives up to his par might as well commit suicide, or be anathema.
It still comes off as egoic judgement and 'false' Universals.
No different then a poet stating that a life without writing poetry is not worth living...
His statement can not be argued if he had said that;
"I feel that my life would not be worth living if I couldn't examine it."
That doesn't fit on the bumper, but is unassailable logically.
(There is much to be said for 'E-Prime'!)

[JackHamiltonJames]

Just some thoughts on this today;

I have been a big supporter of philosophical logic, (in the Bertrand Russell perspective that philosophy is to be a respectable pursuit that can provide meaningful analysis, an accompaniment to science if you like) However I am now doubting this.

It is my current view that the highest point philosophy can achieve is to be able to transfer learned wisdom, through words and other forms of communication, to a second person, without that second person having to have the experiences that the first person did, to gain the wisdom.

My 84 year old grandfather was recently talking to me about his new home and his new gardening projects. He was saying how much he enjoyed returning to the city and that he tried to make the most of every day he had left.
What i took from this was that despite all his achievements; family, friends, wealth, success. And all his losses; the deaths of those around him, over his long life. He must constantly make an effort each day, as he has always done, to achieve some satisfaction.

Satisfaction appears to be a fleeting thing, and must be achieved each day, perhaps never can it be attained at a constant level. However i believe this is why many people pursue philosophical enquires; to obtain ultimately a constant satisfaction of their mind and of their existence. Yet perhaps philosophers are just gardeners as well, achieving small moments of satisfaction on upon the arrival at some ideas.

The point is, to achieve anything we must endlessly try, each day, for those moments, so life is an experience to be had, for this experience solves the puzzle if only for fleeting moments, because if we don’t try then everything does remain a puzzle. So i agree it is both.

[Crossbow]

Dear Jack,

I realize this post is quite old, so perhaps you may have moved on... however if I may comment on your original post about the quote, “The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."

You mentioned pursuing your Masters Degree in Philosophy because you value all considerations of this reality... this is so beautiful, and I encourage your continued pursuit of the Truth. A year ago this quote would have frustrated me the same as it seems to be doing to you now, an easy cop out for facing those tough philosophical questions plaguing mankind for centuries.

Then I had a near death experience, the result of which is a clarity and understanding of Life which surpasses any ability to understand logically, or even express verbally. Those who have experienced this 'space' come from all walks of life because it exists within every manifested thing in the Universe... including YOU. What is crazy is that the very answer to all your questions already lies within you!! People don't like this answers... they feel they are too simple and aren't based on proof... but there is the paradox, because those who "Know" are at complete peace where they are but can't logically explain why. Teachers, books, mystics, religion, science and philosophy can bring us so far... but in the end, that final bridge from the known to the unknown must be traversed alone.

Imagine if an apple seed knew it was supposed to produce apples, but wasn't content being a seed. It would sit around looking at other apple trees making apples and think something was wrong, so it would try to understand. Maybe it would read books, take classes, go on pilgrimages trying to figure it all out... but in the end the only way it will ever produce apples is if it just rests content 'Being' a seed... then that natural 'space' which is inside of everything will transform the seed into a tree. The beauty and mystery of the quote is that as the seed experiences being a seed and enjoys the mystery of what it will become, it will naturally become a tree which bears fruit.

Try to love exactly where you are at in your journey at this moment... a student of philosophy trying to figure it all out. Love the mystery, and experience your reality in all its fullness Now. Neither I nor anyone else can give you the answer to your question, only you can. My best defense of the quote above is to leave you with a few sign posts for your journey:

"...I would like to beg you dear Sir, as well as I can, to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answers." -Rainer Marie Bilke

"What we are looking for is what is looking." -St. Francis of Assisi

"We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." -T. S. Eliot

[Nataraja]

It is not a necessary implication.

In saying that "an unexamined life is not worth living" implies that there are unexamined lives not worth living. You are correct in that it is not always perceived as an implication by all Perspectives, the same problem with his statement.

He also might have meant that everyone examines his life, more or less, but some people consider it a waste of time. He wanted encourage everyone to examine.

Of course there are contexts within which his words are meaningful. There are other contexts, such as that which I have offered, in which they are not, but unless those (meaningful) contexts are offered with his 'bumpersticker', it comes off as some sort of 'Universal Truth', which it ain't, by his erroneous use of 'is' (poor language).
Perhaps it finds more meaning as a metaphor, rather than implying that those who don't examine their lives up to his par might as well commit suicide, or be anathema.
It still comes off as egoic judgement and 'false' Universals.
No different then a poet stating that a life without writing poetry is not worth living...
His statement can not be argued if he had said that;
"I feel that my life would not be worth living if I couldn't examine it."
That doesn't fit on the bumper, but is unassailable logically.
(There is much to be said for 'E-Prime'!)

Was Plato's statement a conclusion based on evidence acquired from examination? Or was he perhaps, making the assumption based on prejudice? (Was he speaking from a theoretical perspective or from experience?).