Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:47 pm
I like what your views are looking towards and what that way of life is and how it will be/could be achieve. However, to me, it does seem a long drawn out way you are describing to reach living that way. I found that way of life you allude to can be reached/ achieved much quicker by just being truly honest, in the beginning. If some one seriously wants to change them self, personality, and/or behavior, then by just being truly honest, about the wrong they do, then they become truly open, and when one is truly open then they cannot not learn, and then if they are truly serious about self development and self change, then who they truly are just naturally reveals Its Self. Self realisation just happens without even intending to.
The reason people are slow in the learning process skill is because of their assumptions, beliefs, and disbelifs that they maintain and hold onto.
Absolutely EVERY thing in Life is simple and easy, but if one believes otherwise, then 'that' MUST BE
what it IS.
Personality changing with self development and a Self realization, which leads towards full KNOWING of thy Self is an extremely simple and easy process, that is; once you KNOW how to do it. But once this process skilled is learned, then it is like driving a car, or riding a bike, once you learned it you never forget.
Changing for the better, and helping and supporting EVERY one else just becomes a natural way of life, which, in turn, leads to a truly harmonious and peaceful world for Everyone.
Hi buddy, thanks for your comments and sorry if it took me a while before engaging with you.
In your first comment you also mentioned the importance of self-honesty and I'm totally with you on this point. You also mentioned the importance of asking why we behave in certain ways, which is a self-reflective attitude that, likewise, I think is key to self development. But I’m gonna quote your first message:
Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:05 am Once people learn and understand why they are greedy and continually behave in the obviously wrong ways that they do, then they will know WHY they do what they do what they do, once you know the WHY some thing happens only then you are able to prevent it from reoccurring and/or stop it from continually occurring.
Finding people who are honest enough to admit that they are greedy and behave in very wrong ways so that they can learn WHY they do what they do so that then they can truly change for the better is another matter.
This other matter which you are not going into here is the matter that I’m trying to take care of.
Okay, perfect. This is the only matter that I have yet to work out. So, if you can take care of this part, then that would be great. What I have set out to create can then be finally reached.
So, how do you, or we, find people who are honest enough?
Do you know of anyone who is truly honest? Are you, in fact, honest enough to openly admit ALL of your greedy and wrong behaviors?
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am In your last post you went a step further and identified assumptions, beliefs, and disbeliefs that people hold onto as the cause for not being able to honestly self-reflect. But still we’re missing a model of how humans get past those attachments to assumptions and beliefs.
For beliefs and/or disbeliefs, then this is easy, just do NOT ever have any beliefs nor disbeliefs.
Stopping oneself from always inadvertently making assumptions is not as easy, but is very possible and with just about every thing improves the more we do it. The less assuming we do, the better we become at not making assumptions.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am The jargon that I am using now—but which I’m looking to either substantiate with neuroscience or to change—for referring to the attachments to assumptions and beliefs is “stopped processes”.
Okay. The process to stop having/holding onto beliefs and to stop making assumptions is called "stopped processes".
The word/thought STOP works perfectly well and very simply and easily in the 'stopping process' of doing some thing.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am Reactivating stopped processes is the whole point of the model of self development that I’m working on.
Like ALL human processes/behaviors, they are controlled by thoughts. So, reactivating stopped process is just about the easiest thing to do, that is; when we tell ourselves to STOP.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amAnd the theory has to be very universal because, as Atla and previously Impentinent have pointed out, there is a huge variety of people, and each one is at a different point.
Does it really need to be told that people ARE different?
'There is a huge variety of people' does not need expressing as it is completely obvious that ALL people are different.
By the very nature of being a human being, we ARE different.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am This implies that practically each person will have to work on themselves in different ways and different amounts, although all of them will have to reactivate stopped processes. That’s what process skills are all about: facilitating this reactivation.
Do you have any examples of 'facilitating this reactivation'?
I would suggest just use the STOP word.
Also, the only people I see that will have to work on themselves in different ways and different amounts are the two groups of separate people I observe. Although I generally do not separate any thing, I do however do this with human beings. There are two groups of human beings who I see need to work on themselves in different way and different amounts. Those two groups are:
Adult human beings. And,
The children of adult human beings.
Adults have to work on themselves, all the time. Children do NOT have to work on themselves, ever. When exactly children transfer into adults is not up to me to decide and I will leave that decision up to ALL of you to make, accept, and agree upon, together.
Children do NOT have to take responsibility to work on themselves, ever, because they did NOT create the "world" they live in, and they did not ask to be brought into this type of "world". Adults, however, do create the "world", and thus the life that we all have to live in. Therefore, adults have to take responsibility for the wrong they do, which is creating this life we are all in now.
I found that IF adults were to work on themselves by being truly Honest, truly Open, and seriously Wanting to change for the better, then they can change, for the better, which in turn will create a much better life for EVERY one.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amThe whole point of these theories I'm working on is just to create the most universal formulas possible to navigate the world.
To me, a 'theory' is just some thing that can be falsified, so why formulate any thing that could be false anyway. Instead why not just look at how things work or how they are?
To me, the formula needed for creating a truly peaceful "world" for everyone is just HOW. Being Honest, Open, and Wanting to change, for the better, is the universal formula for 'navigating' or creating the "world" that we all want to live in, that is; a truly peaceful and harmonious world.
That simple HOW formula leads to learning and gaining the know-HOW to gaining the answers to ALL of life's meaningful questions.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am It’s not to create a series of programs or political agendas for people to act out.
Well that kind of attempt to "fix" things has obviously NEVER worked. There is a whole human existence that is evidence of this.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am As I said previously, the world is already going to put pressure on us to change our behaviour. So this is just an effort to understand what are the mechanisms at play so that we can be empowered to respond to this pressure at best.
I found just Honesty is the key to unlocking the, previous, secrets/mysteries to all of this.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amDo you not find that what you proposed earlier is analogous to saying "if you want to play guitar you are going to have to put your finger in such position on the fretboard for the C chord, and such position for the D chord, etc"?
It might be, but I did not look at it like that, thus never found that. All I am saying is if you want to learn how to live the life you truly want, that is; a truly peaceful and harmonious life, then, if you are just completely Honest, you will become truly Open, and from which you can not then not learn. I am NOT saying you have to do any thing else specifically like what you propose here.
If a person does not want to be truly Honest, then that is perfectly fine with me. I KNOW exactly WHY they are the way they are. I am not here to tell any one what to do, force any one to do any thing, nor persuade any one of any thing. I am just saying what I had found.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amWhile what I'm trying to focus on is how do you actually make yourself do such things?
The exact same way you "make" yourself do any thing. That is; with thought.
The only reason you do any thing is because of thought AND want.
EVERY thing you do is because you want to do it, which comes from thought.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am In Italian we have an expression that goes "tra il dire e il fare c'è di mezzo il mare" literally meaning between saying and doing there's a sea in between.
That sea could be the sea of 'want'.
One could say to them self, "I want to lose weight". But do they Truly or Seriously want this. We can all say we want some thing, but seriously we really want some thing else, or we do not want some thing as much as we say we want it. I may "want to lose weight", but I may "want a piece of that cake while sitting on the sofa" more. We have to
seriously want some thing to obtain it, not
just want it but truthfully want some thing else.
This 'sea of want' is why I continually say If you really want to live in a truly peaceful "world", then you have to be Honest, Open, and
seriously Want (or
seriously Willing) to change, for the better.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am It refers to our tendency to want to do things but actually failing at sticking to our programs (take new year's resolutions for example). A model for crossing that sea is the kind of self development model that is needed I reckon. And then on this basis we could start thinking more about society and the extended repercussions.
If you want to 'cross that sea', then just REALLY want to do.
If you seriously or REALLY want some thing, then you will go and do what is needed to achieve or obtain it. Otherwise it is nothing more than just words we say to ourselves.
Contradictory here, however, is that the words we say/use to ourselves have far more importance than realized yet.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amWhat are your thoughts?
In regards to what exactly?
The thoughts within this head do NOT stop. Unless of course I tell them to STOP, in which case they do. I have managed to achieve this "stopped process" for the staggering amount of time of about three or maybe four seconds, at the most. The rest of the time I like to be AWARE or CONSCIOUS of what thoughts are actually appearing/arising within this body. But, which, in all honesty, does not happen as often and for as long as I truly like.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amHave you had experiences of not being able to stick to things you wanted to do?
Yes. I have, for example, being wanting to learn how to express my views, for on twenty years and nine months now, while being fully understood and not misinterpreted in anyway, but there has been plenty of times of not being able to stick with this and so I have just gone and done other things instead.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 am Or simply experienced yourself as being clueless in figuring out what to do in a certain situation?
In the last twenty years I can not think of any thing immediately now, but there may have been times.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amOr unable to cope with your experience?
No. If I was unable to cope, then I would not be here, now.
Envelope wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 amI'm keen to dig further into this.
Great. I truly love this kind of discussion. I can and will go as far as you like. The deeper we dig, to me, the more that gets unraveled and revealed, and, uncovered and discovered.
If you can find me the people who
truly want to be Honest about their wrong doings, and
seriously want to change, for the better, then what can and will be revealed is far more than could have even been imagined, previously.