Morality

[WilliamTi]

This from another thread:

"Morality isn't anything other than how people feel, whether they approve or disapprove, etc. of interpersonal behavior that they consider more significant than etiquette."

I do not agree with the thought expressed, but I've shot my bolt at the writer and he is unaffected. I suppose first question is, is he alone or does he have company? Second question, in as much as I've failed to educate the writer, can anyone do a better job?

My view is that morality is evolved thought, and in that sense is a something and not a nothing, certainly more than an individual's mere opinion. I'd even argue that to some degree morality is sure as arithmetic, but the world from time to time and here and there lapses into such barbarous immorality that either humanity is at times collectively both stupid and ignorant, or morality ultimately lacks apodeictic certainty (but that has some other kind of certainty).

[Immanuel Can]

This from another thread:

"Morality isn't anything other than how people feel, whether they approve or disapprove, etc. of interpersonal behavior that they consider more significant than etiquette."

I do not agree with the thought expressed, but I've shot my bolt at the writer and he is unaffected. I suppose first question is, is he alone or does he have company? Second question, in as much as I've failed to educate the writer, can anyone do a better job?

All the standard critiques of Emotivism and of solipsistic Relativism would apply to this person: but I don't know what it would take to "educate the writer." I think that would be up to him/her.

My view is that morality is evolved thought,

Hmmm...that won't quite work, though. "Evolved thought"? Even if we imagine it "evolved," how do we know that the whole moral inclination is not like the much vaunted "vestigial tail" -- a thing to be shed, not continued?

Moreover, what imparts to something merely "evolved" its element of duty? Why do we owe it to follow it, if it's merely the accidental byproduct of impersonal forces like physical evolution or even by gradualistic social development? The mere fact that it came about that way wouldn't argue for an obligation for us to continue it, would it?

I'd even argue that to some degree morality is sure as arithmetic,

"To some degree" and "as sure" would seem to be contradictions. If morality is as sure as arithmetic, then it's darn sure. If it's less than that, then it's to some degree unsure.

If it were as sure as math, I'd be really interested in seeing those "equations."

[henry quirk]

Morality...

There's mine: that which I've sussed out for myself...idiosyncratic.

There's the community's: roughly an average of what most, over the long-haul, believe to be advantageous to furthering the many...codification of this is called 'law'.

There's God's: consult the deity of *your choice for the details.









*me, I go with Crom

[Immanuel Can]

*me, I go with Crom

Crom's first commandment: "Go to a tavern and quaff a flagon of ale. On the way, kill Thoth-Amon."

[henry quirk]

Nah, if I had to sum it up, it would be: 'Look here, I done gave you everything you need to make a go of it (a body, a mind, and a will)...what the hell else do you need? So: go, strive, and leave me be.'

You know, Mannie, me bein' a Cromist (a deist) is all your doin': Jehovah is gonna have your keister.

[Immanuel Can]

You know, Mannie, me bein' a Cromist (a deist) is all your doin': Jehovah is gonna have your keister.

Well, my whole carcass isn't worth all that much, but for whatever it's worth, He already owns it.

Gonna explain?

[henry quirk]

Some time back you tasked me with an experiment.

Man, the deities lined up!

Only one to catch my attention is the one who didn't come knockin'.

[Immanuel Can]

Some time back you tasked me with an experiment.

Man, the deities lined up!

Only one to catch my attention is the one who didn't come knockin'.

I'm impressed.

But why Deism?

[henry quirk]

[Immanuel Can]

Interesting again. How is it that you found Deism helpful to you in sorting out free will?

[henry quirk]

Well, I'm a free will (I self-direct, I bend causal chains, I begin causal chains) in a deterministic universe. I violate cause & effect. I figure there must be a lil sumthin'-sumthin' wedged into my meat that makes the difference. From there, it's just a hop, skip, jump to maybe Crom really is atop his mound, brooding.

[Immanuel Can]

Well, I'm a free will (I self-direct, I bend causal chains, I begin causal chains) in a deterministic universe. I violate cause & effect. I figure there must be a lil sumthin'-sumthin' wedged into my meat that makes the difference. From there, it's just a hop, skip, jump to maybe Crom really is atop his mound, brooding.

Makes sense.

Determinism stultifies all human freedom, all reasoning, all achievement, all responsibility, all relationship, all ethics and meaning. Those are pretty important things not to lose. And while that loss isn't it itself enough to guarantee us that Determinism is wrong, it is enough to worry us that it deprives life of a whole lot that most people believe exists, and to give us a reasonable suspicion that Determinism is merely reductional: that it might be failing to describe a lot of phenomena that most of us take for granted when we live every day.

Certainly, further investigation is warranted, then, and it makes it very worthwhile NOT to take the attitude of some modern Determinists by glibly embracing it, and to look further to see if there's a chance it's not right at all: which, of course, there certainly is.

I was interested to see that perhaps the most noteworthy public Atheist of the last century, Dr. Anthony Flew, went from Atheism to Deism at the end of his life. Dawkins and others charged him with "senility" on that account: the figured, anybody who could go from Atheism to "the God delusion" must surely be charged with having lost his marbles. Not particularly nice, but an allegation that needed some very pointed refutation, in Flew's opinion.

So he composed a book to refute that, giving his reasons for abandoning Atheism in favour of Deism. It was called, There Is No A God. So that shift is not a path without precedent. And it adds up.

Thanks for explaining.

[henry quirk]