Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

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lpdev
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Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by lpdev » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:04 pm

I'm a computer guy interested in the bridge between computer languages and human languages, and the fundamental workings of language itself. I'm not a linguist therefore i have my very own approach. What i try to understand are the basic concepts of our language and how they relate, how concepts and propositions combine to create discourses and how to recognize faulty reasoning.

thedoc
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by thedoc » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:17 pm

lpdev wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:04 pm
I'm a computer guy interested in the bridge between computer languages and human languages, and the fundamental workings of language itself. I'm not a linguist therefore i have my very own approach. What i try to understand are the basic concepts of our language and how they relate, how concepts and propositions combine to create discourses and how to recognize faulty reasoning.
A good place to start is to understand the different languages and the meanings behind what is said. I read somewhere that given the differences between German and French, It is no wonder that the 2 countries have been at war for centuries.

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lpdev
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by lpdev » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:25 pm

That explains my inner turmoil, i am half French and half German lol

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lpdev
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by lpdev » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:31 pm

And yes, i'm always surprised how badly fundamental Words tend to be defined in dictionaries. Everyone has its own definition, not like in the sciences where every definition is worded extremely carefully.

thedoc
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by thedoc » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:30 pm

lpdev wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:31 pm
And yes, i'm always surprised how badly fundamental Words tend to be defined in dictionaries. Everyone has its own definition, not like in the sciences where every definition is worded extremely carefully.
These are 2 of the problems, everyday language is often poorly defined or understood, and everyday definitions are used where a scientific definition is needed. Example "It's just a theory" in everyday language a theory is a guess or hunch that is largely unsupported, but in science a theory is a well supported concept that is supported by facts that have been verified.

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lpdev
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by lpdev » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:47 pm

It is kind of sad to see so many people arguing over nothing because they misunderstand each other, what a waste of time. I don't want to know how many lost hours have been caused by the word "freedom". Everyone seems to have his own definition :roll:

When it comes to "theory" i prefer to say that it has to not have been disproved as it needs to be falsifiable. Afaik you can only verify mathematical deductions, theories about the real world can't be proven to be right. Also, i've seen people add that a theory has to be predictive and comprehensive in nature in contrast to hypotheses. Although, unlike a theory, a hypotheses doesn't add the need to be well established. It's all so confusing :?

I'm currently trying to define theory, hypotheses and all those words like belief, assumption, declaration, statement, assumption, conviction... I think the solution is in defining them in relation of each other but with so many varying definitions it's hard to pin them down. I need a bigger hammer :mrgreen:

thedoc
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by thedoc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:23 pm

lpdev wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:47 pm
It is kind of sad to see so many people arguing over nothing because they misunderstand each other, what a waste of time. I don't want to know how many lost hours have been caused by the word "freedom". Everyone seems to have his own definition :roll:

When it comes to "theory" i prefer to say that it has to not have been disproved as it needs to be falsifiable. Afaik you can only verify mathematical deductions, theories about the real world can't be proven to be right. Also, i've seen people add that a theory has to be predictive and comprehensive in nature in contrast to hypotheses. Although, unlike a theory, a hypotheses doesn't add the need to be well established. It's all so confusing :?

I'm currently trying to define theory, hypotheses and all those words like belief, assumption, declaration, statement, assumption, conviction... I think the solution is in defining them in relation of each other but with so many varying definitions it's hard to pin them down. I need a bigger hammer :mrgreen:
You will need to be careful not to define a word too closely or limit it too much. I once worked with a person who said he would not have a hammer in his tool box because a hammer was "an implement of destruction". I asked him what he would do if he wanted to drive a nail into the wall to hang a picture. He replied that he would use his clog to drive in the nail, he condoned the act but denounced the proper tool for the job.

Most builders I know used a hammer as one of their primary tools, they were usually building not destroying.

Impenitent
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by Impenitent » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:15 pm

there are only 10 types of people...

those who understand binary, and those that do not...

-Imp

thedoc
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by thedoc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:46 am

Impenitent wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:15 pm
there are only 10 types of people...

those who understand binary, and those that do not...

-Imp
Yep.

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lpdev
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by lpdev » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Well, a hammer is a tool and it is known that any tool can be used in a constructive or destructive manner. Anything that can be constructed can also be deconstructed. Your guy forgot the constructive part of what the hammer can do.

On the other hand, if you define a word too closely, you end up with another definition that then defines different concept and not the one you wanted to define originally. Sure, this is an error, and is why the original concept has to be well understood.

Impenitent
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by Impenitent » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:41 pm

meaning is subjective

-Imp

thedoc
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Re: Hello, i'm interested in discussing discusson

Post by thedoc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:08 am

lpdev wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:25 pm
Well, a hammer is a tool and it is known that any tool can be used in a constructive or destructive manner. Anything that can be constructed can also be deconstructed. Your guy forgot the constructive part of what the hammer can do.
A tool has no purpose of it's own, it is the intent of the wielder of the tool that has purpose. The person I knew was a fool.

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