safety v. compliance

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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Dubious
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:10 pm
Dubious wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:06 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:53 pm

*connect the dots
Nothing else to say? With a tin-foil mentality such as yours, why do you always insist on arguing when you're so incapable of it! Better for you to revert to cartoon mode. Words don't seem to suit you.
slave
Given a choice, I prefer the other alternative.

Thanks anyways for your always insightful input.

...and yes! I know, I'm welcome! :lol:
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Dubious wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:10 pm Only someone demented would think that getting vaccinated in the midst of a pandemic would be slave thinking. Better to heap up more dead bodies than be a slave; ain't that so Spartacus? Nice to know you're doing your bit to keep freedom alive!

74% who got Covid-19 and most who were hospitalized in recent analysis had been fully vaccinated.


Reports of Serious Injuries After Vaccines Surge as CDC Says Vaccinated May Be as Likely to Spread COVID as Unvaxxed
commonsense
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by commonsense »

404 Page Not Found

Seriously, who is Megan Redshaw?
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henry quirk
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by henry quirk »

Dubious wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:10 pm
Dubious wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:06 pm

Nothing else to say? With a tin-foil mentality such as yours, why do you always insist on arguing when you're so incapable of it! Better for you to revert to cartoon mode. Words don't seem to suit you.
slave
*Given a choice, I prefer the other alternative.

Thanks anyways for your always insightful input.

...and yes! I know, I'm welcome! :lol:
*to be slaver? not surprisin' at all

me, I'll stick with the third option: bein' free
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henry quirk
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by henry quirk »

commonsense wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:03 pm 404 Page Not Found

Seriously, who is Megan Redshaw?
The links are up; she's a reporter-type.

Here's another...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

...does it matter, though?

All the vaccines could be efficacious as all hell, with 0 side effects, and that would still be no just cause to mandate their use.

Get the jab if you want and leave those who don't want the jab alone.
commonsense
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:04 pm
commonsense wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:03 pm 404 Page Not Found

Seriously, who is Megan Redshaw?
The links are up; she's a reporter-type.

Here's another...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

...does it matter, though?

All the vaccines could be efficacious as all hell, with 0 side effects, and that would still be no just cause to mandate their use.

Get the jab if you want and leave those who don't want the jab alone.
Personally, I agree.
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

FYI

Facts as we know them:

ME: CDC, should I get vaccinated if I already had Covid?

CDC: “Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19.”

ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does vaccine-induced immunity last?

ANSWER: “There is still a lot we are learning about COVID-19 vaccines and CDC is constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated.”

QUESTION: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the vaccine was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the vaccine immunity better than my natural immunity?

CDC: …

QUESTION: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?

CDC: Yes.

NEWYORKTIMES: “Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.”

ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than vaccine immunity?

CDC: Possibly. You never know.

ME: Okay. If I get the vaccine, does that mean I won’t get sick?

BRITAIN: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are vaccinated people.

ME: CDC, is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.S. catching Covid after getting the jab?

CDC: We stopped tracking breakthrough cases. We accept voluntary reports of breakthroughs but aren’t out there looking for them.

ME: Does that mean that if someone comes in the hospital with Covid, you don’t track them because they’ve been vaccinated? You only track the UN-vaccinated Covid cases?

CDC: That’s right.

ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the vaccine, how is it helping me?

CDC: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.

ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.

CDC: We don’t know “exactly.”

ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?

CDC: We don’t know, okay? Next question.

ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the vaccine, is there any reason I should get it?

CDC: Yes, for the collective.

ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting vaccinated?

CDC: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.

ME: Can a vaccinated person spread the virus to someone else?

CDC: Yes.

ME: So if I get vaccinated, I could still spread the virus to someone else?

CDC: Yes.

ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get vaccinated was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the vaccine?

CDC: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unvaccinated, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the vaccine’s protection, putting all vaccinated people at risk.

ME: So the vaccine stops the virus from mutating?

CDC: No.

ME: So it can still mutate in vaccinated people?

CDC: Yes.

ME: This seems confusing. If the vaccine doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting vaccinated help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the vaccine?

CDC: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unvaccinated, you pose a threat to vaccinated people.

ME: But what KIND of threat??

CDC: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.

ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the vaccine doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying vaccinated people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the vaccine just by running into an unvaccinated person! Which is it??

CDC: That’s it, we’re hanging up now.

ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get vaccinated, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts. And I should get the vaccine to keep a vaccinated person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the vaccine, I can give it to the vaccinated person anyways. And, the other vaccinated person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?



ME: Um, hello? Is anyone there?
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:09 pm ....
Idiot. Lets go with ceteris paribus for a second.

Lets pretend that natural immunity is as good as vaccine-attained immunity. They are EXACTLY THE SAME (because you don't know which is better; or worse - yeah?)
Lets also pretend that both immunities last EXACTLY as long. Whatever that number is - it's unknown. Lets just call it X (because you don't know how long they last - yeah?)

I have just two questions for you.

1. Which path towards immunity is better for a population that doesn't have immunity:

A. Natural immunity
B. Vaccine immunity.

2. Which path towards immunity is better for a population whose immunity wears out after X days/months/years:

A. Natural immunity
B. Vaccine immunity.

You know how you tell which path is worse? By the number of people who die on the path while trying to attaining immunity.

The vaccines don't prevent infections! How many times must this be explained to the dumb folk?
A vaccine doesn't prevent infection any more than a seatbelt prevents a car accident.

Vaccines significantly reduce the risk of ilness and death ONCE you are infected!
Seat belts significantly reduce the risk of injury and death ONCE you have an accident.
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:36 pm 1. Which path towards immunity is better for a population that doesn't have immunity:
I have no interest in what is good or bad for some, "population." My only interest is in what is good or bad for individual human beings.
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:48 pm I have no interest in what is good or bad for some, "population." My only interest is in what is good or bad for individual human beings.
Idiot. NOT dying from COVID is fucking good for every single individual human being in any given population!

Do you see the difference?

Left: This is what happens with "natural immunity"
Right: This is what happens with vaccine immunity.

Which immunity is better?
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Sculptor
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Sculptor »

CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary

It's pretty clear that the tendancy to beleive what you prefer to beleive is as prevalent on this forum as it is in the world of social media.
So if you don't like the government, or you don't like wearing masks then all you have to do is choose to believe that they have no use.
You can then move on to pretend that if you have no symptoms, or are vaccinated then you are not capable of infecting anyone so you do not have to wear a mask, and the mask wearing is all some sort of government plot - as if any government reliant on votes would do that.
But the fact is that no matter who you are, and what your symptoms are; whether or not you have had a vaccine, or if you have already had a covid infection - You are Still Capable of Spreading the Virus!
Just read the CDC reports. Read the Lancet.
The information is out there - all you have to do is put aside your fake faith in your own delusions and accept the truth of the matter..
Here is a list of people capable of spreading the virus.

1) People who are dying of COVID
2) People who are ill of COVID
3) People with a positive test that have no symptoms.
4) People that are single vaccinated
5) People that are double vaccinated
6) People who have had COVID, and fully recovered, but have recently been in contact with another person with COVID.
7) People who think that they are immune, or too young, or too physically fit to have COVID.
8) Everyone else you can think of...

The only people not capable of passing on the virus are dead people hao have been cremated.

Wearing a Mask is practically harmless, but its great advantage is that it reduces the chance of getting the virus and passing in on to other people who might also pass on the virus.

The more the virus is spread the more chance there is of new variants appearing. Maybe the next one shall be more dangerous. Maybe the next one will by-pass all immunity and vaccination protection?

So wear a mask in public indoor spaces and stop complaining about nothing!
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henry quirk
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"So wear a mask in public indoor spaces"

Post by henry quirk »

My governor just (re)mandated that for my state.

No, I will not.
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