The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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RG1
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The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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Non-Truth # 1 - People get infected by other people. This is technically not true.

People get infected by being in contaminated environments (i.e. from viruses in the air or on surfaces that ultimately transfer into one's respiratory system).

Note: People's respiratory systems are not directly connected to each other's, and therefore do not infect each other. The correct view is that people are either "contributors" of the virus into the environment, or they are "removers" of the virus from the environment. One or the other.

Those with healthy immune systems, when infected, attack and kill the virus, thereby "removing" more of the virus from the environment, than they contribute. Those with weak immune systems, when infected, allow the virus to replicate unabated; thereby "contributing" more of the virus into the environment, than they remove.

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Non-Truth # 2 - Healthy people (including the asymptomatic, previously infected, and recently vaccinated people) when infected, "contribute" more of the virus, back into the environment than they "remove". This is a blatant non-truth.

The Rt value for healthy people is <1 whereas the Rt value for vulnerable people is >1 (note: Rt = rate of transmission; <1 means stops more of the virus than transmits, and >1 means transmits more of the virus than stops). If this non-truth was truth, then the protective effect of herd immunity would be impossible, and herd immunity would then just be a fairy tale.

Logically, the only way healthy immune people can provide a "protective effect" (herd immunity), is if they stop/absorb/kill the virus around them (in their local environment), ...in other words, herd immunity is only possible if healthy people are the "removers" of the virus, for if everyone "contributed" to the virus, then no one could ever provide a "protective effect".

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Non-Truth # 3 - The protective effect of herd immunity doesn't kick in until we reach the herd immunity threshold. This is another blatant non-truth.

The protective effect is not like a "light switch" that begins protecting vulnerable people when we reach the magical threshold point. The threshold value is just the theoretical percentage needed to stop the virus altogether. The protective effect begins immediately with any addition of (non-masked) healthy people within a group of vulnerable people.

Note: The protective effect of herd immunity is achieved by adding healthy people to a given contaminated environment with vulnerable people so as to reduce the overall "density" of the virus exposure to the individual vulnerable person. The amount of the virus within a given environment, divided by the total number of people within that environment dictate the initial odds of a person getting infected. And then, the ratio of healthy people to total people within that same environment, multiplied by the initial odds, yields the "protective effect". This is the correct equation for determining the protective effect of herd immunity.

To help illustrate:

Imagine 10 people inside a room with 10 mosquitos flying about. Further imagine that 0 (none) of these people are healthy (a mosquito bite does not bother them) and all 10 people are vulnerable, whereas a mosquito bite would result in a severe reaction and certain death. So the odds of a vulnerable person dying from a mosquito bite in this scenario is 100% (10 mosquitos / 10 total people) which equals 10 dead people.

Now imagine we add 10 healthy people to this room (environment) of 10 vulnerable people. So now the odds of a vulnerable person dying from a mosquito bite in this scenario is 50% (10 mosquitos / 20 total people) which equals 5 dead people.

Now imagine we told these 10 healthy people in the room to strip down naked to expose 10 times more body surface area for the mosquitoes to bite, and then put the excess clothing around the vulnerable people to give them an extra layer of protection. So now the odds of a vulnerable person dying from a mosquito bite in this scenario is 5% (10 mosquitos/(20 total people x 10 times more exposure to healthy people and more protection to vulnerable people)) which equals 0.5 dead people.

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Non-Truth # 4 - Continued masking and social distancing of our recently vaccinated people will help us end this virus sooner by reaching the herd immunity threshold faster. This again is another blatant non-truth.

We cannot get a "protective effect" by people hiding from the herd (i.e. people that continue to social distance themselves from others in society). Herd immunity requires immune people to integrate (mix) back into the herd (society) so as to create the protective effect.

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MORAL OF THE STORY: Our current covid policy is wholly irrational, and is based on bad science; science that disregards logic.

The continued masking and social distancing of our healthy population will only allow this virus to continue to grow and mutate unabated. Vaccines are useless if we don't unmask our recently vaccinated, and allow them (along with our healthy population, and those previously infected) to participate in achieving herd immunity.
Impenitent
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Impenitent »

non truth #5

only the deaf have true heard immunity

-Imp
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Dontaskme
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Dontaskme »

I personally find it very concerning - thinking about the speed and urgency at which the Covid 19 Vaccine is being rolled out across the world. A vaccine that is basically in it's experimental stage. A vaccine that has never been fully tried and tested, but is nonetheless being offered to anyone willing to take it in realtime. At the start of the pandemic, there was no hope of any vaccine in sight, and yet somehow vaccines have just magically appeared as if they had always existed.


Stanley Plotkin, Under Oath on Vaccines - Full 9h Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS0cYAFs2ps

8:35:10 - this is the moment at which dr. vax-pumper has to admit that polio was in fact eradicated by improved hygiene, not the result of vaccination.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Dontaskme »

I'm also very concerned at the rhetoric of the MSM.

No Covid Health Passport...means :arrow:

No to certain jobs.
No to overseas travel.
No to outdoor social recreational gatherings.
No to restaurant dining.
No to pubs and clubs.

There's probably more....but that's just a few to begin with.

Conclusion: There's something very wrong with the world right now. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by mickthinks »

Truth doesn't become non-truth just by you declaring it so in ALL-CAPS. RG1.

People get infected by other people. This is technically not true.
This is not true only in the sense that it is a virus that infects. That virus, or rather, viral load can be delivered in various ways, all of which involve one or more infected people shedding it where it can be picked up by others. That process is handily summarised as "people infecting other people".

Those with healthy immune systems, when infected, attack and kill the virus, thereby "removing" more of the virus from the environment, than they contribute.
This is a non-truth. Where on earth did you get it from?

Rt = rate of transmission; <1 means stops more of the virus than transmits, and >1 means transmits more of the virus than stops
This is a non-truth. Where on earth did you get it from?

The rest of your thesis seems to be derived from your mistaken beliefs about virus transmission and epidemiology. You are talking out of ignorance, RG1. Please stop spreading dangerous ignorance.
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RG1
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

RG1 wrote:NON-TRUTH #1 - People get infected by other people. This is technically not true.
mickthinks wrote:This is not true only in the sense that it is a virus that infects. That virus, or rather, viral load can be delivered in various ways, all of which involve one or more infected people shedding it where it can be picked up by others. That process is handily summarised as "people infecting other people".
Nonsense. People's respiratory systems are not directly connected to each other. The virus transmission is not person-to-person, but is from person-to-environment, and environment-to-person. A very important distinction. People get infected by being in contaminated environments (whether or not other people are presently in that same environment).

RG1 wrote:Those with healthy immune systems, when infected, attack and kill the virus, thereby "removing" more of the virus from the environment, than they contribute.
Mickthinks wrote:This is a non-truth. Where on earth did you get it from?
Mickthinks, you apparently do not understand the mechanics of herd immunity. If immune people did not "remove" more of the virus from the environment, then they "contribute" back into the environment, then herd immunity would be an impossibility.

Every airborne virus breathed in by an immune person (and killed/removed) is one less virus that can infect a vulnerable person. In essence, healthy immune people "remove" more of the virus than they "contribute". This is what gives the protective effect of "herd immunity". And once we reach a saturation level of 60% immune people within the herd (i.e. the threshold value), then the entire herd is protected.
Last edited by RG1 on Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RG1
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

Dontaskme wrote:I'm also very concerned at the rhetoric of the MSM. ...Conclusion: There's something very wrong with the world right now. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Very wise words.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by mickthinks »

RG1: The virus transmission is not person-to-person, but is from person-to-environment, and environment-to-person.
Mick: That process is handily summarised as "people infecting other people"

Mickthinks, you apparently do not understand the mechanics of herd immunity. If immune people did not "remove" more of the virus from the environment, then they "contribute" back into the environment, then herd immunity would be an impossibility.
That isn't the mechanics of herd immunity. You are arguing from ignorance. Please read a good book or two and come back when you know something about it.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

RG1 wrote:Mickthinks, you apparently do not understand the mechanics of herd immunity. If immune people did not "remove" more of the virus from the environment, then they "contribute" back into the environment, then herd immunity would be an impossibility.
Mickthinks wrote:That isn't the mechanics of herd immunity. You are arguing from ignorance.
I think it is your naive ignorance that is on full display here. Maybe this link and graphic might help you better understand "herd immunity". https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/herd-immu ... es-it-work

"Herd immunity happens when a virus can’t spread because it keeps encountering people who are protected against infection."

The small print below:
"Infected Person" says -- (Sheds virus into the environment).
"Healthy Immune Person" says -- (Prevents further transmission of the virus).

Covid Protections - med.jpg
Covid Protections - med.jpg (17.76 KiB) Viewed 4495 times
commonsense
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by commonsense »

RG1 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:27 pm
RG1 wrote:NON-TRUTH #1 - People get infected by other people. This is technically not true.
mickthinks wrote:This is not true only in the sense that it is a virus that infects. That virus, or rather, viral load can be delivered in various ways, all of which involve one or more infected people shedding it where it can be picked up by others. That process is handily summarised as "people infecting other people".
Nonsense. People's respiratory systems are not directly connected to each other. The virus transmission is not person-to-person, but is from person-to-environment, and environment-to-person. A very important distinction. People get infected by being in contaminated environments (whether or not other people are presently in that same environment).

RG1 wrote:Those with healthy immune systems, when infected, attack and kill the virus, thereby "removing" more of the virus from the environment, than they contribute.
Mickthinks wrote:This is a non-truth. Where on earth did you get it from?
Mickthinks, you apparently do not understand the mechanics of herd immunity. If immune people did not "remove" more of the virus from the environment, then they "contribute" back into the environment, then herd immunity would be an impossibility.

Every airborne virus breathed in by an immune person (and killed/removed) is one less virus that can infect a vulnerable person. In essence, healthy immune people "remove" more of the virus than they "contribute". This is what gives the protective effect of "herd immunity". And once we reach a saturation level of 60% immune people within the herd (i.e. the threshold value), then the entire herd is protected.
How does the environment become contaminated if not by the concurrent or recent presence of contaminated persons?
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by commonsense »

RG1 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:16 pm
RG1 wrote:Mickthinks, you apparently do not understand the mechanics of herd immunity. If immune people did not "remove" more of the virus from the environment, then they "contribute" back into the environment, then herd immunity would be an impossibility.
Mickthinks wrote:That isn't the mechanics of herd immunity. You are arguing from ignorance.
I think it is your naive ignorance that is on full display here. Maybe this link and graphic might help you better understand "herd immunity". https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/herd-immu ... es-it-work

"Herd immunity happens when a virus can’t spread because it keeps encountering people who are protected against infection."
Why is there a difference between naturally acquired immunity (not completely effective per illustration) and vaccination?
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

RG1 wrote:The virus transmission is not person-to-person, but is from person-to-environment, and environment-to-person. A very important distinction. People get infected by being in contaminated environments (whether or not other people are presently in that same environment).
commonsense wrote:How does the environment become contaminated if not by the concurrent or recent presence of contaminated persons?
Infected people contaminate the environment. The virus can survive many hours in the air, and up to 9 days on surfaces prior to infecting a host. People get infected by breathing in airborne virus or by touching contaminated surfaces and then touching nose/mouth area.

commonsense wrote:Why is there a difference between naturally acquired immunity (not completely effective per illustration) and vaccination?
Both give immunity. Immunity can be gained by those recently vaccinated and those previously infected (who now have antibodies). I'm not aware that one is more effective than the other, except that it is believed (by many medical experts) that "natural immunity" (i.e. via "infection") provides better immune response.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by commonsense »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:18 pm I personally find it very concerning - thinking about the speed and urgency at which the Covid 19 Vaccine is being rolled out across the world. A vaccine that is basically in it's experimental stage. A vaccine that has never been fully tried and tested, but is nonetheless being offered to anyone willing to take it in realtime. At the start of the pandemic, there was no hope of any vaccine in sight, and yet somehow vaccines have just magically appeared as if they had always existed.


Stanley Plotkin, Under Oath on Vaccines - Full 9h Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS0cYAFs2ps

8:35:10 - this is the moment at which dr. vax-pumper has to admit that polio was in fact eradicated by improved hygiene, not the result of vaccination.
So YouTube underscores the fact that poliomyelitis was defeated when the people around the world stopped coughing, spitting and sneezing on each other. But they have not.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RG1 »

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We can't get the "protective effects" of herd herd immunity if we keep "masking" and "social distancing" our recently vaccinated and those previously infected. We need to let these immune people IMMEDIATELY start full time socializing (re-join the herd!) if we want to stop this virus from continuing to grow and mutate into potentially deadlier strains. Contrary to the bad science being perpetrated, keeping our immune people AWAY from the vulnerable herd does NOT give us herd immunity. It does not provide protection to the herd.

If herd immunity is our ONLY means to stop this virus, ...then what the hell are we waiting for?

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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by commonsense »

Where can I find scientific journals hygiene with the polio vaccine?
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